Parry

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 10:20 pm

I have searched a bit in the deepths of the board.
The proposal of martial arts was allready there and martin and bror stated, that such a thing wouldn't be implemented.

http://www.illarion.org/community/forum ... php?t=1226

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:48 am

Apparently you did not read that thread the same way I did.

Martin said it would "probably not" be put in, which means it may.

Bror never said it wasnt' going to be implemented, but didn't see how asian martial arts fit into the RP scheme, but perhaps they would put in some of the weapons.

Bror also said they were trying to come up with unarmed combat.

It still sounds like it's a possibility, they just haven't figured out a good way to do it yet.

Xerake · Post by **Xerake** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:15 am

I think there should be two more skills...

Dodging, so when you go to fight a demon, you can be very good at dodging the attacks rather than have to use a shield everytime...a demon is powerful, but notice how slow they walk.

Martial Arts...I got this from Grobul. If this skill were around, it would be my first choice! The world should know that dangerous tools of destruction aren't limited to metal and wood...fists gets a little tiring too, because kicks are better than punches.

Xerake · Post by **Xerake** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:18 am

Thereadore, as you can see, we have throwing stars in the world of Illarion already. And in the Middle Ages, there was at least a tiny hint of Asian influence. Needless to say, throwing stars are Asian weapons.

Why not add Asian Martial Arts?

Draakon · Post by **Draakon** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:09 am

If you shoot a martial artist he bleeds just like any other, doging bullets is not very easy. While doging a huge demon would be alot easier it is still huge and has a long reach, when it takes 1 step you need to take like 5 or more to move the same distance. Also I am quite sure the demon isn't nessicarily slow just because it is big since it would have the muscle needed to move it's body accordingly. I am sure most have tried to swat a fly and that is quite easy though it is fast and can even fly, also killing a wasp is no problem though it may sting you and you will hurt a little. Now since none of the races in Illarion can fly anyone fighting a demon with no weapons would need to climb onto it to hit it anywhere where it might actually hurt. It is ridiculous nothing else. I would personally like to see the demons made 10 times stronger in all ways so killing one by yourself would be impossible.

Caranthir the great · Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:14 am

The reason it's hard to kill a fly is, because of its eyes it can almost see 360'degrees. You try to suprise that.
Just a note

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:23 pm

I agree with making demons stronger, they are huge creatures of evil and one person defeating them by himself is ridiculous.

Yes martial arts should be implemented, it would add a bigger scope to rp fighters.

Dodging also, it only comes down to time and how much work the programmers are willing to do.

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 4:45 am

Umm... Xerake, I support martial arts in teh game. I just support it separately than with the other ocmbat skills.

That is, if you are fighting as a warrior, sword/shield/dagger, you could *only* go up in warrior skills.

If you are fighting with martial arts, no weapons, throwing starts, bo sticks, nun chucks, etc, yo ucould only go up in martial arts.

Grishnak Bloodlust · Post by **Grishnak Bloodlust** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 6:47 am

Asian martial arts won't be added because it doesn't fit the game. The game is based on Europe during the middle ages, and no-one used martial arts in Europe at that time, that was in Asia. See how it doesn't fit?

Xerake · Post by **Xerake** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 4:25 pm

Actually Grishnak, I think it would fit just fine...

As pointed out earlier, we already have Asian weapons in the game, throwing stars. It would be a bit dumb to add throwing stars and completely leave out martial arts...

We have orcs, dwarves, elves, lizardpeople, magic, mummies...PLENTY of fictional stuff, so why be factual about the time period and location so badly?

Marco Polo, a famous explorer, went to China for a time during the Middle Ages. He spoke of 'magical burning rocks' (coal) and nobody in Europe believed him when he returned.

HEY, that reminds me. IF we're going to be so very realistic, why not just take out coal altogether? Coal wasn't even in Europe during the Middle Ages, everybody used iron NOT steel. I guess that screws up the whole weapon/armor system...again, Coal was in China, in which Marco Polo explored. How can they use a resource they never found, let alone believed in at Europe?

I think if we use steel instead of crappy iron weapons/armor, already have throwing stars, have fantastic creatures of many kinds, AND had a realistic, historical exploration to Asia, it would be fine to put in martial arts.

We can just say that Marco Polo learned Tai Chi or Kung Fu when he was over there or something...even later, French sailors explored Asia and learned a martial art (I'll get back to you if I remember the name).

As for the one who said you would have to climb and struggle to fight a demon with martial arts, I should tell you that it's possible to gain extraordinary skill to kick at large heights in real life...Bruce Lee, for example. There was also a Japanese swordsman by the name of Miyamoto Musashi who was heard to have become so skilled in swordplay by the end of his samurai career, that he carried only a wooden sword instead of a real one because he was just as deadly with bamboo. He was honed to the point where metal was unnecessary! Why not hone yourself to the point where weapons altogether are unnecessary?

I think it should take great, great, great skill to beat a demon in martial arts. So don't think I'm implying some guy who can break wood can beat a fantastic creature like a demon...

Seth Valor · Post by **Seth Valor** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 11:51 pm

Well, I dont want more skills to have to get parry to! ahhhhh!

Anyway, If you think about it, you cant block a demon that is attacking you with a big axe half your size with a simple two handed thing, or two swords, or whatever. Its not that logical that you could do that.....But....

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:58 am

Sorry for bringing this old thread up, but I cannot find the answer to this question, maybe I didn't look hard enough, but here is what I want to know:

Does it make a difference which hand you hold shield and sword or not?
Seems like if I am holding a shield in my left, and a sword in my right, I am better than if I was holding shield in right and sword in left.
In other words, is there a "shield" hand?

Out of this question comes another one:
If I am using a second sword or a back up dagger, and putting it in the shield hand, does that mean I'm using it as a shield? Because if it is so, that is kind of not right. The second sword then will not do a lot of damage, since it is being a shield. However, to make it right, both swords or both knives have to cause equal damage in both hands.

And the last one, if I am using 2 shields, and one of them is in the sword hand, does that increase that shield's attack ability? Would that mean I am using that shield as an attack weapon?

Or maybe you train each hand separately to do different things? If I often switch shield and sword places, will that give me a chance to become ambidextrous?

Thank you for attention. Sorry again.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 1:22 pm

I would say, that there is no difference between the two hands.

And each weapon (including the shield) has a special amount of attack ability and of parry ability. So it depends on what you are putting together in your two hands, how much parry and how much attack you have.

Kilrathi · Post by **Kilrathi** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:07 pm

1). If martial arts did ever come to Illarion i believe they should be able to use some weapons (dagger,throwingstar,shortsword,spear) because look at the sholin monks they use martial arts and these weapons and i think anybody going up against one of them will be in for a fight.

2). There was a secret cult in asia I forget the name but they trained their warriors how to kill with one or two hits. This also should be taken into consideration because every race/monster has thier weakness so if you were a 'Master' martial artist you would have a greater chance of killing these creatures in one or two hits.(This must only be for high level martial artists)

3). Do you people not read books there are RL stories of a man with two swords fending off 5 or more attackers so if you have two swords then your parry should be faster if not handle the greater strength blows. As a shield will be slower but handle most if not all blows. Then a dagger will be the fastest parry but handle only weak blows.

4). As for the remark on bows being used to block. This is a excelent idea because if an attacker gets to close a bow should be able to parry weak/medium attacks but your bow will "age" faster so you need to repair it sooner. Same with spears.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:54 pm

Kilarith can ya play yet?
Because what you wrote is practically already in the game... Don't propose things about the game when you haven't been in the game.

Kilrathi · Post by **Kilrathi** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:55 pm

From what i have read on this board my suggestions are not yet in the game so if you would please read all of the replies to the board you would have learned that.

~Death Comes Swiftly to Fools~

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:59 pm

considering I am in the game I know that daggers are swifter and weaker then swords, swords are quick but slower then a short sword, swords are best to use for parrying without a shield. Shields block most attacks but already slow your character from hitting the monster.
Like I said, get into the game and experience it, then propose things.

~Death comes swiftly to those who talk of things they know little about~

Kilrathi · Post by **Kilrathi** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 9:30 pm

Excuse me but have you read the whole entire board i have they were talking about increasing parry/doging and adding marshal arts to Illarion they have said that two swords cant parry very well and neither can daggers. So if you did read the whole entire board you would have realised that my post had something to do with what this proposal was all about. So dont talk sh!* if you have not read everthing here. Because if you did read everything you wouldnt have gotten on my back in the first place or maybe you just like pestering a noob.

~Read Before you Write or be counted a Fool~

ps. If you would like to discuss this more lets not take up space on this board.

pss. Excuse my language i dislike people who get their jollies up by pestering newbies

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 9:50 pm

God read what i wrote!
I said swords are best for parrying when you don't have a shield.
Shields are best for parrying because it is a big peice of metal.
Daggers are horrible at parrying because they are small however they strike fast but weakly.

Play the game, if you look at your first post you will see that what you proposed is already in the game.

Kilrathi · Post by **Kilrathi** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 9:55 pm

Did i not just post what you said i do not know what is in the game but i do know what this board was about so my post was relevant to the board and if my ideas are already in the game get off My Back because it would seem me and the GMs are thinking partly alike.

~Death Comes Swiftly to Fools~

ps as i said on my last post if you wish to continue this discussion lets us get off this board

Shoni · Post by **Shoni** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:21 pm

Can you just not read? What you and the GMs think is alike? The only reason it is alike is because it is already implemented! Leave Grant alone for Gods sake. You been chasing him around the boards all day!

Kilrathi · Post by **Kilrathi** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:25 pm

If you have read the post on each of the boards you will see that i have posted before Grant has and on each board i have posted he has showed up so get the facts straight. And if what i have said has already been implemented great it was not posted on the boards or any of the manuals i have read. So me and the GMs do think partly alike so what i have said is true

Kilrathi · Post by **Kilrathi** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:29 pm

O and shoni i read every reply on all boards that is not in german

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 2:03 am

Deleted

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 2:04 am

Gentlemen, gentlemen, please.
My, and I am realising it is all my fault. I brought this thread up, and people started fighting.
Kilrathi, I beleive it is wise to listen to the more experienced players.
However, there is something, I still do wish to share, and maybe the more experienced ones will give me an answer.

I checked it again today - it is a fact, that if I use same weapons, but switch hands, I get damaged a lot more!
I am still fighting zombies, and if my weapon is in my right hand (the one that is bent on the body scheme), and my shield is in the straight hand - I can handle any zombie attack without being damaged, and I can kill 3 zombies at a time.
But if I switch hands and put a shield in the bent hand (arm) and my weapon in the straightened hand, one zombie almost kills me.

Does anyone have an explanation to that? It is the only reason I bring this up.
Thank you.

Togo Strongbottle · Post by **Togo Strongbottle** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 2:36 pm

maybe they could make a weapon like the assasin in diablo II or x-man has
you know what i mean:the claws

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 4:01 pm

Ok, once again, last confirmation.
I put the shield in the wrong hand, and a sword in the other one, and I cannot do any damage to a single zombie, and it almost kills me.
They have gotta added the "shield arm-sword arm" feature.
If that is true - then it is kind of a sad feature.
Can both arms be trained, please?

Ultimaweapon2004 · Post by **Ultimaweapon2004** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 6:05 pm

Martial Arts isn't just asian. There are different forms of unarmed combat from all over the world. The Egyptians had a form of Martial Arts, as well as the countries from the middle east. And England in the middle ages did have battles with the Arabians. Wasn't it called the crusades or something like that? Well in battle with these Arabians the christians could have learned some of they're unarmed techniques and thus could have brought traces of Martial Arts to England.

Illarion.org

Parry

About hands.