Divine powers

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Slightly
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Divine powers

Post by Slightly »

Dear Players,

It has come to our attention that some magical and divine powers have started to creep into the game.

We wish to remind you of the following rule:
A Gamemaster's permission is needed for all magical and divine interventions that cannot be realised by the engine.
Any such requests that are made to the GM team need to be well thought out and will only be considered if they benefit the game as a whole, not just give the individual ‘power’. They should enhance role play opportunities and bring entertainment to others, whilst ensuring they do not force a behaviour or effect on another character. Requests also need to have a realistic background, for example, a hardened warrior is unlikely to be granted permission to cast spells and put hexes on other characters... just because they feel like it.

If you have any concerns about this aspect of the game speak to one of the GMs or CMs and we will do our best to help you.

All the best,
Silver and Slightly
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Liebe Spieler,

uns ist aufgefallen dass ein gewisses Maß and göttlicher und magischer Kraft in das Spiel Einzug gehalten hat.

Wir wollen euch an die folgende Regel erinnern:
Bei magischem und göttlichem Wirken oder übernatürlichen Eigenschaften gilt, dass alles, was man nicht über die Engine von Illarion umsetzen kann, eine Genehmigung eines Gamemasters erfordert.
Jegliche Anfrage an das GM-team wird gut durchdacht und nur dann genehmigt werden wenn sie zum allgemeinen Spiel beiträgt und nicht nur die individuelle Macht stärkt. Sie sollte zum Rollenspiel anregen und auch anderen Spieler daran teilhaben lassen. Weiterhin sollte sie keinem Charakter einen Effekt oder ein Verhalten aufzwingen. Anfragen müssen einen realistischen Hintergrund haben. Zum Beispiel wird einem Krieger mit höchster Wahrscheinlichkeit keine Genehmigung dafür gegeben einen Zauber oder Fluch auf jemanden zu sprechen nur weil ihm danach ist.

Solltet ihr diesbezüglich Bedenken haben wendet euch bitte an die GMs oder CMs. Wir werden unser Bestes tun um euch zu helfen.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Silver and Slightly
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Jupiter
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Jupiter »

Requests also need to have a realistic background, for example, a hardened warrior is unlikely to be granted permission to cast spells and put hexes on other characters...
I would rather say understandable or coherent background. I fail to see any request on magic that can be realistic :D
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Tinuva Geogroda
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Tinuva Geogroda »

Jupiter wrote:
Requests also need to have a realistic background, for example, a hardened warrior is unlikely to be granted permission to cast spells and put hexes on other characters...
I would rather say understandable or coherent background. I fail to see any request on magic that can be realistic :D
Well Illarion has its own rules and realism.
While magic might not be possible in our world with our physic laws in a world with different laws it is possible but still bound by those rules.
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Mephistopheles »

this may be because of something I said ig lol but Iething like "I can hear yur whispers by de dark powers" I cant really do that nor can others I dont think anyway, but I wont say HOW I knew what was said :P
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Jupiter »

Tinuva Geogroda wrote:
Jupiter wrote:
Requests also need to have a realistic background, for example, a hardened warrior is unlikely to be granted permission to cast spells and put hexes on other characters...
I would rather say understandable or coherent background. I fail to see any request on magic that can be realistic :D
Well Illarion has its own rules and realism.
While magic might not be possible in our world with our physic laws in a world with different laws it is possible but still bound by those rules.
No one knows the rules by which the world of Illarion is goverend (since they are not fixed and even if they were, they coudl be changed whenever the gms consider it necessary). Therefore, you cannot refer to them. You can use you common sense to see if your idea fits to the other stuff. That is looking for coherence.
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Tinuva Geogroda
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Tinuva Geogroda »

Jupiter wrote:
Tinuva Geogroda wrote:
Jupiter wrote: I would rather say understandable or coherent background. I fail to see any request on magic that can be realistic :D
Well Illarion has its own rules and realism.
While magic might not be possible in our world with our physic laws in a world with different laws it is possible but still bound by those rules.
No one knows the rules by which the world of Illarion is goverend (since they are not fixed and even if they were, they coudl be changed whenever the gms consider it necessary). Therefore, you cannot refer to them. You can use you common sense to see if your idea fits to the other stuff. That is looking for coherence.
Actually there are a lot of given rules, rules can change but that does not mean you do not obey the rules untill they change, or you can try to discover them.
We also obey mathematics rules in the real world while some might be changed or contradicted :P

And there are still quite a few given, which might seem trivial, but gravity works quite well.
I am actually quite surprised you'd say something like this. It might be a trivial discussion too, but without a set of rules I could be playing Superman in Illarion right now :P
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Jupiter
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Jupiter »

"And there are still quite a few given, which might seem trivial, but gravity works quite well."
Gravity is such a concept which I think is a false example. I don't see why we should think that bodys attract each other in Illarion. The most obviosu statement I would make ingame would be "Things fall down" NOT "They are attracted by the earth". And I certainly wouldn't say that any body has a possible attraction on any other given body. I assume you actually meant just the common notion "stuff falls down" with gravity. Which is from a scientific point fo view, at best, inaccurate.

But I guess we can agree that there obvious things which can or cannot be done. You may think that has something to do with realism, what i consider a useless notion, while I consider it to have to do with coherence and common sense*, which you may think to be too weak, because it lacks objectivity. (I won't start to question our real life natural laws. We actually need to do that before talking about the relation of our "real" laws with fiction laws ;) )

EDIT: *I think common sense does not necessairly has to do with objectivity. Which is a bit off from the normal usage, I think
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Uhuru
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Uhuru »

First off, a big THANK YOU to Silverwing and Slightly for starting this thread.

I will admit that I threatened to hex someone as Uhuru, knowing full well that it was a joke as she couldn't possibly do so, having no magic ability whatsoever. Nobody picked up on it or called her out on it. Joke fell flat. :(

I do think this reminder is a good one though as someone tossing out a "hex" at random does conflict with it unless backed with permission. And as none of the mages have any magic right now, I have been wondering about the RP behind any magic... it all would fall under this rule, wouldn't it? As now, the RP turns into a ritual and quite possibly always has.

Sadly, that is terribly inhibiting to our magical folk, but that is the current rule.
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Tinuva Geogroda
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Tinuva Geogroda »

Jupiter wrote:"And there are still quite a few given, which might seem trivial, but gravity works quite well."
Gravity is such a concept which I think is a false example. I don't see why we should think that bodys attract each other in Illarion. The most obviosu statement I would make ingame would be "Things fall down" NOT "They are attracted by the earth". And I certainly wouldn't say that any body has a possible attraction on any other given body. I assume you actually meant just the common notion "stuff falls down" with gravity. Which is from a scientific point fo view, at best, inaccurate.

But I guess we can agree that there obvious things which can or cannot be done. You may think that has something to do with realism, what i consider a useless notion, while I consider it to have to do with coherence and common sense*, which you may think to be too weak, because it lacks objectivity. (I won't start to question our real life natural laws. We actually need to do that before talking about the relation of our "real" laws with fiction laws ;) )

EDIT: *I think common sense does not necessairly has to do with objectivity. Which is a bit off from the normal usage, I think
No not at all. But currently everything points towards the existance of gravity and obeys its rules properly unless explained.

Implying a mechanical engineer doesnt know what gravity is is slightly insulting.

Nobody know what the rules are, they can change but that means in no way they do not exist.
They exist trivially, we take them for granted, magic changes some of the rules we know from our reality and so do way more thibgs. But without the rules anything would be possible. The simple fact that you cant, even if its just because a GM doesnt like it it implies there is a lore rule that forbids it.
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Re: Divine powers

Post by GolfLima »

:arrow: could someone give a summary of the discussion in the "old language"?

Thanks in advance.


~PO Jerem
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Kyre
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Kyre »

Any RP that has "magic" or what magic was in the past needs GM permission to be able to accomplish... this would include all rituals (which has always been the case). This doesn't mean it isn't allowed however. It is easy to write a quest for a GM to look over and let you know yes or no. Don't give up on the RP you imagine yet make sure it DOES have permission if not the usual. I find it best to ask even if unsure.
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Jupiter »

@Jerem

Eine weitesgehend unnütze Diskussion über die Frage, ob der Begriff "realistisch" sinnvoll ist oder nicht.
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GolfLima
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Re: Divine powers

Post by GolfLima »

@Jupiter ... Danke.

Ich hatte gehofft das die Diskussion etwas mehr Inhalt hätte. Schade, wäre ein guter Ansatzpunkt gewesen. Na ja, eine vergebene Chance mehr, was soll´s.
Teflon
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Teflon »

@ GolfLima: Du bist herzlich eingeladen, den Ansatzpunkt weiter auszubauen und uns deine Gedanken dazu mitzuteilen und damit auch die Diskussion ein wenig zu lenken. Die Chance, hierzu zu nützen oder zu vergeben liegt sprich auch bei dir und nicht nur bei den anderen.
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rakust dorenstkzul
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Re: Divine powers

Post by rakust dorenstkzul »

#me forces a gm to delete this post
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Hew Keenaxe
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Hew Keenaxe »

rakust dorenstkzul wrote:#me forces a gm to delete this post
Yea, I guess I dont understand this post. So the GM's are using the game mechanics to try and add fun to our RP? A terrible crime.
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Ufedhin »

"A small hooded shape watches the orc from a deep shadow ,a single eye glitters with malice and cold calculating thought.A small sip from a glass bottle reveals the orc's words to the watcher....."this one is again riddled with doubts " the watcher thinks .
With a deep sigh the watcher clasps his cloak around him with a twisted hand of living wood and turns as his shape changes and elongates his stride lengthening his speed increasing dramaticaly ,with huge bounds a dark path untrodden by many is taken deep into the night."


I would like to use this paraghaph i wrote up in a RP thread.These could easily be seen as divine or magical powers however on closer inspection they are alchemical and all very possible within the games mechanics.
Claiming divine or magical powers is against the rules unless permission be granted, However what of describing possible things ingame to others in
a more desciptive, magical ,deceptive ,etc manner in order to cause an effect ?
I have fallen foul of these rules before, and while i agree with them i would like to see a little more guide lines in this area.
To just merely describe or say things or claim powers that are only true is not a very human trait :D
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GolfLima
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Re: Divine powers

Post by GolfLima »


1) in letzter Zeit habe ich mich ein wenig aus dem Spiel zurückgezogen
2) vorher ist auch mir aufgefallen das Magie in vielfältiger Weise in Illarion eingezogen ist
- fast jedes Event war zum Ende hin mit Kampf verbunden, welcher mit irgendeinem "magischen Ritual o.ä." einherging bzw. endete
- Magie sollte punktueller eingesetzt werden
- fehlender Langzeiteinfluß von GM-Magie, auch bezüglich des Rollenspiels
- gefühlsmäßig ist das Wirken von Magie auf Runewicker beschränkt (wahrscheinlich haben Magier aus anderen Orten keine Anfragen gestellt)



1) in the last days i withdraw my char from the game
2) i also noticed that there is a lot of magic in the game
- most of the events ended with fights and some kind of magical ritual
- magic should be used more punctual / selective
- i did not see the "long time influence" of GM-magic, also in relation to role playing
- in my feeling making magic is restricted/limeted to Runewickers ((the reason could be that only Runewickers were asking GM´s for such action))

:arrow: sorry for bad translation :(
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Uhuru »

Ufedhin wrote:"A small hooded shape watches the orc from a deep shadow ,a single eye glitters with malice and cold calculating thought.A small sip from a glass bottle reveals the orc's words to the watcher....."this one is again riddled with doubts " the watcher thinks .
With a deep sigh the watcher clasps his cloak around him with a twisted hand of living wood and turns as his shape changes and elongates his stride lengthening his speed increasing dramaticaly ,with huge bounds a dark path untrodden by many is taken deep into the night."


I would like to use this paraghaph i wrote up in a RP thread.These could easily be seen as divine or magical powers however on closer inspection they are alchemical and all very possible within the games mechanics.
Claiming divine or magical powers is against the rules unless permission be granted, However what of describing possible things ingame to others in
a more desciptive, magical ,deceptive ,etc manner in order to cause an effect ?
I have fallen foul of these rules before, and while i agree with them i would like to see a little more guide lines in this area.
To just merely describe or say things or claim powers that are only true is not a very human trait :D
I don't see any of them as possible within the game mechanics. Not sure what you can sip that would "reveal the orc's words" to you... is there something in game right now that you can brew that would do this for you? And that hand of living wood, if that isn't a magical thing, I dunno what is. I know you say that you see it as alchemical, but I just can't. How can you alchemically attach something like that to your body? I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around that without using any magical abilities. When I originally read your post, I thought, wow, he's had some divine intervention from a god to be able to read an orc's mind and have a plant grow from his arm. How else can it be explained? Certainly, how else would a character in the game see it?

I think the GMs need to look at this one for you.
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Jupiter
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Jupiter »

Perception potion and transformation potion.

The "hand of living wood" is indeed not technical possible, but in Ufedhin's case it is a fact. He has that "mark" with GM approval.
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Mephistopheles »

seems theres alot of pointless bickering... why not come up with an idea and ask a GM for yourself if your so concerned about others having something unique to roleplay with. Or come up with a unique rp idea that doesnt need gm approval I dunno, but this really just appears to me as jealousy over someone else having something different or "special"... I may be wrong or I may misunderstand feel free to ridicule if I am :wink:
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Uhuru »

Sometimes, people see others doing it and don't understand that they have special permission, so they jump on board and copy or take leave to do the same without getting that permission. It's good to discuss this regularly so people understand that they do need special permissions.
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Uhuru »

Jupiter wrote:Perception potion and transformation potion.

The "hand of living wood" is indeed not technical possible, but in Ufedhin's case it is a fact. He has that "mark" with GM approval.
Didn't realize a simple perception potion allowed someone to read minds. If that was Uffe's intention in his posting. *shrugs* If you say so. :)
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Jupiter
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Jupiter »

Uhuru wrote:
Jupiter wrote:Perception potion and transformation potion.

The "hand of living wood" is indeed not technical possible, but in Ufedhin's case it is a fact. He has that "mark" with GM approval.
Didn't realize a simple perception potion allowed someone to read minds. If that was Uffe's intention in his posting. *shrugs* If you say so. :)
"A small hooded shape watches the orc from a deep shadow" that implies to me that Ufedhin was already near the orc. In eye visible range so to speak. And the perception potion helped him to hear.
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Re: Divine powers

Post by Ufedhin »

Uhuru wrote:Didn't realize a simple perception potion allowed someone to read minds. If that was Uffe's intention in his posting. *shrugs* If you say so.
The words where spoken not thought,an orc language potion with a perception poition would allow the words to be understood from quite a distance,(also in a mountainous ampitheather words tend to magnify and echo) .

I do apologise for not mentioning the hand of wood being a GM approved curse,however all the other effects are totaly 100% ingame
engine mechanic's .(lauguages dont work yet ,but the potion for lauguages exist ingame )
My point was and it seem to have been proved ,it is easy to describe something even something rather ordinary in a way that sounds
fantastic even magical.It is easy to mistake what is said or written to be more than it is if just skim read or if in chat not considered in context
with what is being spoken.
My other point was a few extra guide lines in this area would be helpful to players so the line is not crossed to often ,after all we do play in a fantasy world lets not have the cold hard logic of reality impinge to strongly.
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