banned?

Deinarious · Post by **Deinarious** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:51 am

Hopefully Nitram can realize that.

Karl. · Post by **Karl.** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:05 am

Julius wrote:Sam, Karl, and even Raheem tried to get there selves unbanned by writing apology letters to the staff and game body.

If I'm brought up again to these forums, I'm going to be thoroughly pissed. I never asked to be unbanned, simply because I don't need to be unbanned. Yes I'm a jerk, yes I'm mentally unstable, yadayada, smile you. I'm thoroughly hoping for the wellbeing of whatever remains of this community, that you quit fucking bringing me up into conversations on the forums.

Have a wonderful day.

Deinarious · Post by **Deinarious** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:33 am

Who asked you?

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:34 am

By a post by Noradur I can see that my banned involves other factors as well. I've never had a ig offense so therefore, if it's forum related, block my forum account. I have no problems with playing the game without access to the forums.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:02 am

Julius wrote:By a post by Noradur I can see that my banned involves other factors as well. I've never had a ig offense so therefore, if it's forum related, block my forum account. I have no problems with playing the game without access to the forums.

I believe they just say this as an excuse.

Post by **Nitram** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:26 am

Just to point one thing out: I did not answer because I slept. Good answer, eh?

But that topic wents out really interesting. Do you really think that flaming the staff will lead in anyway to a lift of the bannishment? I tell you the answer: It won't. You may got banned for false reasons. But who can proof this? Its easy to tell Dei that he shall post that Julius and Grant are different persons. And its impossible for us to proof that Julius and Grant are one person. But your reaction on that happenings show that you deserve the ban.

Deinarious: The end of Illarion was proclaimend in the last years dozens of times by persons who just want to make themselfs importaint. Persons like you. You don't like Illarion anymore? Then leave. The amount of pointless posts at the board will decrease alot instandly.

If you do not learn to act in a friendly way, you can't expect the GMs to act friendly. Thats just the way it goes.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:34 am

Now I'm not one who particularly cares about this, but:

He got banned because he reacted badly to the ban?

So "You are banned for not being able to accept being banned"

Sounds a tad unfair IMHO.

*walks out, dropping two cents behind him*

Post by **Nitram** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:38 am

You got me wrong Hadrian

Its logical that one does not accept a ban, in case its not deserved. Its about the way you react on it. You still can act in a friendly way or like Julius did.
Because you have a different opinion you don't have to offend the other party of the discussion right away.

Nitram

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:44 am

Oh... allright

*walks in and picks up his coins again, then walks out*

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:03 am

Pretty much anyone'd get pissed when they find that out.
I dunno if he is Grant or not but that reason seems a little too far fetched.

Besides, could've been a whole lot more agressive than what he said.

Anyway, not my discussion.
Farrebas.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:55 pm

The way he reacts and defends himself implies IMHO that he has been here longer than "some months", and I guess more people can notice and read that out of his posts.

Besides:

"Tis a insult to me and my name for anyone to think that I am like him on a internet community."

Dude, it's a game. No need to make other people (your roommate even) look bad over it just to save your own skin, really.

Something's fishy, that's all...

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:59 pm

Faladron wrote: Something's fishy, that's all...

That's just Taliss.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:16 pm

*applauds*

Elsi · Post by **Elsi** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:26 pm

If I were banned based on hearsay, without any method of appeal or official notification, I am certain I would say much worse things about the GMs.

I realize that there are too few people trying to handle the work of administration, that they are only human, and that they deserve respect and understanding. I also think that by not having clear procedures to follow in difficult situations (such as bannings) the GMs are setting themselves up for being the target of anger and abuse.

I would think the minimum procedure would be to send a PM (or e-mail) to the party telling them why they have been banned, and how they can appeal. I would also think that having some sort of standard text pre written explaining the reason for the ban (in both languages) which GMs may choose to use (robos) would be a good idea.

No offense, but I've found that GMs are often unnecessarily brusque, especially when dealing with newer players.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:48 pm

Its not a newer player, its an allegadly old player who was banned before for some reason and made people angry [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGcNmzktWcQ] <- goodbye vid.

Then a few days later, another person continues the whole "Rothman" story, and he's not a new player either.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:50 pm

Although.. the Julius account is 3 months older than that video

.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:52 pm

90 days is still a few, geographically speaking.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:05 pm

Nitram wrote:You got me wrong Hadrian

Its logical that one does not accept a ban, in case its not deserved. Its about the way you react on it. You still can act in a friendly way or like Julius did.
Because you have a different opinion you don't have to offend the other party of the discussion right away.

Nitram

Well, when the other side rather bluntly calls you with names, expresses joy because you have been banned and proceeds to call you an asshole, how would you react to it.. especially, if the ban was undeserved? Nobody here is a professional, but.. *just shakes the head*

Then, regressively justifying the ban on how you react to the ban and the jeering, name calling and celebrating which comes from the staff-side might tickle your pickle, but I'm quite amazed how you manage to blurt that out with a straight face.

You first proceeded to shoot under a ridiculous pretext, without asking any questions, and then now you say that he can't answer the questions in a manner which would provide 100% certainty of his identity. How about being 100% he is Raheem Smith before banning him in the first place? Is that seriously too much to ask?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:09 pm

would provide 100% certainty of his identity. How about being 100% he is Raheem Smith before banning him in the first place? Is that seriously too much to ask?

Is there a way to be 100% sure of who he is? or 100% sure that he is not? that is the main question.

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:14 pm

Well, there is one. If he had a webcam, he could have a video call with one of the GMs. We have pictures of Grant to compare with were that to happen.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:16 pm

Azuros wrote:Well, there is one. If he had a webcam, he could have a video call with one of the GMs. We have pictures of Grant to compare with were that to happen.

If i wanted I could give you a video call of a woman, simply by asking a friend of mine to stand for me

We don't have pictures of this 'new kid'.

However, it has to be admitted that the whole thing is very suspicious.

A person gets banned, 3 months later the room-mate decides he wants to start playing illarion as well. And the best character CONCEPT he can think of is a rothman?

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:18 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
Azuros wrote:Well, there is one. If he had a webcam, he could have a video call with one of the GMs. We have pictures of Grant to compare with were that to happen.
If i wanted I could give you a video call of a woman, simply by asking a friend of mine to stand for me We don't have pictures of this 'new kid'.

However, it has to be admitted that the whole thing is very suspicious.

A person gets banned, 3 months later the room-mate decides he wants to start playing illarion as well. And the best character he can think of is a rothman?

Well, Julius -did- play some time before Grant was banned, and they have been online at the same time, so at some point at least, they were separate people. Whether Julius let Grant play as him, however, is the question.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:19 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
would provide 100% certainty of his identity. How about being 100% he is Raheem Smith before banning him in the first place? Is that seriously too much to ask?
Is there a way to be 100% sure of who he is? or 100% sure that he is not? that is the main question.

No. That's not the main question.
The main issue is that unless the staff comes up with something else than what deinarious (apparently mistakenly) said, PO Julius should be definitely given the benefit of doubt. You not liking him is IMHO not a valid excuse to ban anyone, no matter what "the staff is the gods and can do whatever they please"-cult you happen to subscribe to. At least, those grounds on banning violate my sense of justice.

Second issue is that certain staff members should start to learn how to behave according to their position.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:27 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote: A person gets banned, 3 months later the room-mate decides he wants to start playing illarion as well. And the best character he can think of is a rothman?

Dun dun dun! Most "new players" do not come up with something as well thought out of a concept like that, blending into the background story of both the game itself and the lore created by the players, having no initial objection to anything (#me's, other client stuff, boards, whatever)...

Good, you might say Raheem helped him with all of that then, but that's just the same as I can say no he didn't.

There are two theories neither can be prooven for sure, and it's in the hand of GM's to have the last say in what they do, there's no "in dubio pro reo" written anywhere in the rules rather a "We keep the right to change and alter these rules at any time as we see fit".

It's also (to be completely on the law side) in the eye of the judge to decide which prooves he wishes to believe and which not, (same as with the jury in american courts, just because you bring 20 people along to speak for you doesn't mean you have to go free because of that, if the jury doesn't believe them) and if the Gm's have serious doubts of this "explanation afterwards" as Dein might have been threatened to do so, (another thing noone can proove now) and tend to believe his first statement more then it's their right to do so and decide based upon that.

Nobody ever said Illarion is a democracy, we're all guests playing in the end.

Try to write something like this to <insert big software firm> because of a incident in a <other massive multiplayer online game here> and you will get even less explenations, perhaps a ban yourself, or even a laugh in your face.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:30 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:90 days is still a few, geographically speaking.

3 months OLDER THAN THAT VIDEO.

OLDER.

O-L-D-E-R

The account existed BEFORE Grant was banned, by 3 MONTHS.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:35 pm

AlexRose wrote:
Hadrian_Abela wrote:90 days is still a few, geographically speaking.
3 months OLDER THAN THAT VIDEO.

OLDER.

O-L-D-E-R

The account existed BEFORE Grant was banned, by 3 MONTHS.

so when did this Julius start playing then...

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:40 pm

Faladron wrote:
Hadrian_Abela wrote: A person gets banned, 3 months later the room-mate decides he wants to start playing illarion as well. And the best character he can think of is a rothman?
Dun dun dun! blablacrap

Dun dun dun! Are you just trying to gain gm cool points?
Talk about crap, lol, this smells worse than me after tacos.

Sure gms have last word, but even a gm can make a mistake and banning something if it's not true well that's just lame. I don't like raheemicheal orwhatever his name is that much, but meh.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:45 pm

I love it how highly "Freedom of speech" is thought about once there are oppinions different to those of some people around.

Might a mod step in and scold some people off for once?

I am sick of getting a "No, that's bullshit" for nearly every post I make, always coming from the same group of "english-speaking-players-of-diversified-nationalities INC"

Elsi · Post by **Elsi** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:47 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote: Is there a way to be 100% sure of who he is? or 100% sure that he is not? that is the main question.

I don't think so. Even if someone were physically able to meet both room mates, there would be the question of 100% belief of what they said.

Perhaps a 'reasonable doubt' standard would be more appropriate.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:00 pm

Nobody ever said Illarion is a democracy, we're all guests playing in the end.

#me is sick and tired of hearing this argument.