Continued discussion ... no whiners or crybabies.
Moderator: Gamemasters
Oh ich kenn noch nen Questgegenstand der irgendwo in SB rumliegt, bzw.beschützt wird! Eines von drei teilen von Ariges Feringwoods Kopf, aber soweit ich weiß hat die Graue Rose und Vanima auch einen der drei Teile, somit isses glaube ich in dem Sinne Gerecht! Da es sich damals um ein Quest gehandelt hat, in welche alle, SB,TB,Vanima,Greenbriar,Graue Rose, Varshikar involviert waren! Also mit SB Quests und unfair gegenüber anderen Städten braucht hier keiner rumjammern! Denn SB hat für das was es hat ordentlich geblecht!
Some things.
1. William founded Caelum. He was immature when he did so, hell I think he was 15/16 years old. Your point? If people wish to follow him, then they're free to.
2. A hostile action? I didn't realise teleportation was so bad.
3. If you notice, at a few points, William suggests leaving. The dwarves INVITED Dominic in, who took the opportunity, and William helped him.
4. @Nitram: One man beating up other chars:
Right, but Will isn't your one man. My last pk was.. hm.. I think an orc for breaking town rules and refusing arrest and running away and ignoring my grabs. I don't see how I fall into this category of people who ruin fun for others by killing them etc.
1. William founded Caelum. He was immature when he did so, hell I think he was 15/16 years old. Your point? If people wish to follow him, then they're free to.
2. A hostile action? I didn't realise teleportation was so bad.
3. If you notice, at a few points, William suggests leaving. The dwarves INVITED Dominic in, who took the opportunity, and William helped him.
4. @Nitram: One man beating up other chars:
Right, but Will isn't your one man. My last pk was.. hm.. I think an orc for breaking town rules and refusing arrest and running away and ignoring my grabs. I don't see how I fall into this category of people who ruin fun for others by killing them etc.
Some should read Magdha's words over and over again she has a lot of points one can't put down clearer.
And to the "A golem is a permanent quest item" thing.
The Golem is a Gm-Character which requires a GM to play it, it's not that Silverbrand has weapons of massdestruction down there ready to use at any given time so the good americans have to invade to save all of Illarion(OH NO WAIT They have OIL ...whoops silly me, ore I meant)
And to go completely into stereotypes: Yes, the americans want the german dwarves ore, not more not less, all the things posted here are just there to cover up their claims and longings for Ore, dwarven ore.
People don't like the dwarves having ore, the Grey Rose having a huge castle for themselves, some people would like it better if everything ingame would look like Trollsbane now (which number of Trollsbane thread is it on the guild board during the period of the last year now, the 8th or 9th?). They are envious of what others have reached nothing else.
So they want it for themselves, or try to destroy it.
Destroying something is fun, for the one destroying not for the one loosing something, as some people are clearly more able to destroy things or claim things then loose interrest so the things break down.
How about we remove ALL items from the map, everyone has to live in caves or sleep outdoors? Everyone happy then?
No items, no item shortage, no greed, no missunderstandings, no war, no "favoritism", no ooc attitude "i want itams 4 mi" which makes people think of "roleplay concepts" to back up there "Hey lets capture silverbrand and rule the game" ooc attitude.
Seriously Silverbrand could OWN all the game, they have the mine right before their doorsteps, they could smith weapons indefinitely and with some powergamers like Retlak or others from the american crew who train their chars to excess Dwarves could opress all the game.
But ask one thing... do they do that? Do the dwarves go around and pick on others with the intent to invade and stay somewhere with the intent to just crush whatever someone else has build up for their own enjoyment?
If the american players would suceed in capturing Silverbrand then goodnight illarion. They'd smith weapons like mad and try to conquer the world as good old Rothman tried to do.
Would the game be funny if everyone has to obey a group of players?
Hell yes (If I'd be one of them)
Hell no (If I'd be none of them); I would piss off a lot of players if I'd be able to "rule" the world and go around acting up to that claim, so I personally choose not to give in to these "urges" for power.
But some other 12 14 16 heck maybe even 18 year olds dream of owning this game and as they do not suceed they have to whine around here.
There that's it, now close this thread or something.
And to the "A golem is a permanent quest item" thing.
The Golem is a Gm-Character which requires a GM to play it, it's not that Silverbrand has weapons of massdestruction down there ready to use at any given time so the good americans have to invade to save all of Illarion(OH NO WAIT They have OIL ...whoops silly me, ore I meant)
And to go completely into stereotypes: Yes, the americans want the german dwarves ore, not more not less, all the things posted here are just there to cover up their claims and longings for Ore, dwarven ore.
People don't like the dwarves having ore, the Grey Rose having a huge castle for themselves, some people would like it better if everything ingame would look like Trollsbane now (which number of Trollsbane thread is it on the guild board during the period of the last year now, the 8th or 9th?). They are envious of what others have reached nothing else.
So they want it for themselves, or try to destroy it.
Destroying something is fun, for the one destroying not for the one loosing something, as some people are clearly more able to destroy things or claim things then loose interrest so the things break down.
How about we remove ALL items from the map, everyone has to live in caves or sleep outdoors? Everyone happy then?
No items, no item shortage, no greed, no missunderstandings, no war, no "favoritism", no ooc attitude "i want itams 4 mi" which makes people think of "roleplay concepts" to back up there "Hey lets capture silverbrand and rule the game" ooc attitude.
Seriously Silverbrand could OWN all the game, they have the mine right before their doorsteps, they could smith weapons indefinitely and with some powergamers like Retlak or others from the american crew who train their chars to excess Dwarves could opress all the game.
But ask one thing... do they do that? Do the dwarves go around and pick on others with the intent to invade and stay somewhere with the intent to just crush whatever someone else has build up for their own enjoyment?
If the american players would suceed in capturing Silverbrand then goodnight illarion. They'd smith weapons like mad and try to conquer the world as good old Rothman tried to do.
Would the game be funny if everyone has to obey a group of players?
Hell yes (If I'd be one of them)
Hell no (If I'd be none of them); I would piss off a lot of players if I'd be able to "rule" the world and go around acting up to that claim, so I personally choose not to give in to these "urges" for power.
But some other 12 14 16 heck maybe even 18 year olds dream of owning this game and as they do not suceed they have to whine around here.
There that's it, now close this thread or something.
One dwarf asked what it is. Dominic then made fun of him, telling arrogantly that it's a portal. Unknown things are often seen as hostile.2. A hostile action? I didn't realise teleportation was so bad.
Then Will started a fire or something.
Don't try to play down your behaviour. Any use of magic - in such a situation - is like drawing a sword, ready fight.
This behaviour and this one:
are results of a missing death fear.3. If you notice, at a few points, William suggests leaving. The dwarves INVITED Dominic in, who took the opportunity, and William helped him.
Seriously, the dwarves "invited" you....very tense situation....you both notice at one point that it is probably a trap.... though you STILL STAY there for a while.
Appropriate action by the staff: enforcing death fear. Quite understandible, especially because this was only the trigger.
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Ivar Kraftimarm
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a little add:pharse wrote:are results of a missing death fear.3. If you notice, at a few points, William suggests leaving. The dwarves INVITED Dominic in, who took the opportunity, and William helped him.
Seriously, the dwarves "invited" you....very tense situation....you both notice at one point that it is probably a trap.... though you STILL STAY there for a while.
Appropriate action by the staff: enforcing death fear. Quite understandible, especially because this was only the trigger.
we invited dominic, after he blocked the door. we could't close the door. first we tried to push him out, but there was no chance to get him out (also because of the magic walls of william). after there was no chance to get him out, we invited him.
hope this makes our situation a bit clearer.
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Korm Kormsen
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- Location: Illarion nordpol, wenns den gibt...
signed.Faladron wrote:Some should read Magdha's words over and over again she has a lot of points one can't put down clearer.
... There that's it.
a little side note:
Alex, does Dominique still not despise you?
everytime you are attacked for having missbehaved, you write something like:
shame on you, that you allways blame someone, you call a friend.at a few points, William suggests leaving. ... Dominic ..., who took the opportunity...
The first magic was actually teleporation; the portal came later. The portal was an escape route should they try and lock us in.
And my character is scared of death; hence the portal. But when he's standing next to his powerful friend in a room with 1 dwarf, he's obviously not as scared.
Usually, death has bad results, e.g. item and skill loss. My character carries round a high quality icebird amulet, wind wand, archmage ring, topaz ring and expensive mage hat, and with his low constitution and total lack of armour, I think he has more at stake in death than most other characters. This is why he doesn't get into situations in which he thinks death is a possibility. In this case, he actually teleported behind some rocks where the dwarves couldn't get to him to cast the portal (Since he usually fails, and wasn't confident in his abilities), to ensure his safety, since anyone can pose a threat if they attack first. Had he not been with Dominic, he'd have never have tried anything on, since 4 people can EASILY take out a low constitution character before he can even cast.
So if you feel that's it's unfair that someone should feel semi-safe in the presence of a powerful friend, while people who are not acting as if they are going to pose any threat, that's your decision.
And my character is scared of death; hence the portal. But when he's standing next to his powerful friend in a room with 1 dwarf, he's obviously not as scared.
Usually, death has bad results, e.g. item and skill loss. My character carries round a high quality icebird amulet, wind wand, archmage ring, topaz ring and expensive mage hat, and with his low constitution and total lack of armour, I think he has more at stake in death than most other characters. This is why he doesn't get into situations in which he thinks death is a possibility. In this case, he actually teleported behind some rocks where the dwarves couldn't get to him to cast the portal (Since he usually fails, and wasn't confident in his abilities), to ensure his safety, since anyone can pose a threat if they attack first. Had he not been with Dominic, he'd have never have tried anything on, since 4 people can EASILY take out a low constitution character before he can even cast.
So if you feel that's it's unfair that someone should feel semi-safe in the presence of a powerful friend, while people who are not acting as if they are going to pose any threat, that's your decision.
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Senrin der Ältere
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I think some of you should read the heading of the thread again, especially the part after the ...
Last edited by Senrin der Ältere on Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, nice job editing out the important bit there. I said the dwarves invited Dominic in. I never said I blamed Dominic for accepting.Korm Kormsen wrote:signed.Faladron wrote:Some should read Magdha's words over and over again she has a lot of points one can't put down clearer.
... There that's it.
a little side note:
Alex, does Dominique still not despise you?
everytime you are attacked for having missbehaved, you write something like:shame on you, that you allways blame someone, you call a friend.at a few points, William suggests leaving. ... Dominic ..., who took the opportunity...
So, Silverbrand consists of only 1 dwarf in 1 room? Hm... Your char William must be very naive. If so, great RP!And my character is scared of death; hence the portal. But when he's standing next to his powerful friend in a room with 1 dwarf, he's obviously not as scared.
.
.
If not... pity that you can't confess a mistake. But hey, that's life. Get used to it. Everyone makes mistakes.
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Gwendolin Cad'ell
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So if a character is scared of death.. he then locks the king of a town (full of dwarves who are supposed to have lots of sharp axes)... into his own jail.AlexRose wrote: And my character is scared of death; hence the portal. But when he's standing next to his powerful friend in a room with 1 dwarf, he's obviously not as scared.
...I must be doing something wrong with my char concepts.
Edit: or what pharse said...
Edit 2: And to be a little bit less sarcastic: That's exactly what the problem is, Alex. That you know that right in this situation there is just one dwarf in the room. And the question is now "Is it your char that thinks: 'Well I don't give a sh*t about the consequences, even if whole Silverbrand is afterwards out to eventually kill me" Or is it you, as the player, thinking: "Well I don't give sh*t if Silverbrand is after my char afterwards because nothing can happen to him anyway."
The staff in this situation thinks that it is the second case. Why? Because this incident is not the first time you do something like that.
Last edited by Gwendolin Cad'ell on Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
No, I didn't lock him in his own cell, I locked the others OUT so that if Thorwald tried anything he'd have no backup, and therefore eliminated any threats. I then released him, having ensured our exit route.
And @Pharse: The fire was actually before any dwarf was in the room, then one came in. The portal was when 1 dwarf was there. Later we met 1 dwarf in the kitchen, when no others were around. Then at the end, due to a magical wall, preventing the others from entering, it was just 1 dwarf. So yes, 1 dwarf. He was going on instinct; if there's only 1 dwarf in the room at the time, he's not going to plan as if there's 3000 dwarves about.
And @Pharse: The fire was actually before any dwarf was in the room, then one came in. The portal was when 1 dwarf was there. Later we met 1 dwarf in the kitchen, when no others were around. Then at the end, due to a magical wall, preventing the others from entering, it was just 1 dwarf. So yes, 1 dwarf. He was going on instinct; if there's only 1 dwarf in the room at the time, he's not going to plan as if there's 3000 dwarves about.
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Korm Kormsen
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w:Dominic Fisher: I think they are multiplying
Thorwald: ich muß mich nur endschuldigen das ich die neue Sprache nicht spreche
w:Dominic Fisher: There were only 2 before
Someone (1244676552): ick glob der eene is william..
w:Dominic Fisher: And now there are 4
please clarify:The fire was actually before any dwarf was in the room, then one came in. The portal was when 1 dwarf was there. Later we met 1 dwarf in the kitchen, when no others were around. Then at the end, due to a magical wall, preventing the others from entering, it was just 1 dwarf. So yes, 1 dwarf. He was going on instinct; if there's only 1 dwarf in the room at the time, he's not going to plan as if there's 3000 dwarves about.
what was the truth?
1) the accusation, that the dwarves might have been called by MSN?
2) your statement that there was only one dwarf present?
don't behave like a little boy, stumbling from one lie to the next.
I dislike your character concept Alex, you preach around the board how important it is to keep magic in the hands of those able to roleplay while at the same time you:
Move yourself through teleporting.
Open and close doors by spells to impress innocent bystanders.
See it perfectly well to alter the structures of someone elses town just to ensure your own safety.
Conjure then kill ogres in Varshikar so your char can stand out as the big hero.
I got one word for you: Poser (don't mistake with Fooser, thats the nice lizard guy with more common sense than most of the rest of the "english speaking part of the community")
Move yourself through teleporting.
Open and close doors by spells to impress innocent bystanders.
See it perfectly well to alter the structures of someone elses town just to ensure your own safety.
Conjure then kill ogres in Varshikar so your char can stand out as the big hero.
I got one word for you: Poser (don't mistake with Fooser, thats the nice lizard guy with more common sense than most of the rest of the "english speaking part of the community")
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Werner von Mintraching
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:31 pm
The King avoid to make war.pharse wrote:*points to Jen's second edit*
I still wonder why Silverbrand hasn't declared war on Caelum yet.
They *invited* Will and Dom, then Will locked the King... There were wars for far less severe reasons.
He dislike the idea to lead his folk in to an dangerous time.
Oh dear, some of you people are sadly misinformed.
@Korm: The fire thing was about 5 minutes after he said that. He said there were 4, then they let us in and we went off and explored. We were alone for periods of time, and it was only when we got to the hall of the axe there were 4 again, where I shut 3 out.
@Faladron: In this case I teleported where you can't normally go. And why shouldn't I move through teleporting? It saves much time. I play an arrogant character, why shouldn't he demonstrate what he can do? And yes, of course my character will insure his own safety; do you not realise how easy it is to kill a 3 constitution character? If he can, why wouldn't he take precautions? As for the Varshikar thing, you're frankly an idiot. Before that, we were in the tavern, (Athian, Avalyon and Will), when Munalander comes in screaming "hilfe hilfe!", so we asked him what was wrong and he said Varshikar was in trouble. We went, as it was Athian's place of residence and killed the ogres already there.
And, sure, my character is a poser. Is that against the rules?
Edit: Why would my character allow 4 people to lock them in a small room with them? That's just stupid, I "locked" the king in for 2 reasons.
1. The door was open when I summoned the wall. i.e. if I wanted to, I could remove the wall when I was done, and walk out without the door being locked. 2. It prevented the other dwarves from getting in. If I really had the dastardly intention of locking him in as an act of provocation, why would I go back and remove the second wall?
@Korm: The fire thing was about 5 minutes after he said that. He said there were 4, then they let us in and we went off and explored. We were alone for periods of time, and it was only when we got to the hall of the axe there were 4 again, where I shut 3 out.
@Faladron: In this case I teleported where you can't normally go. And why shouldn't I move through teleporting? It saves much time. I play an arrogant character, why shouldn't he demonstrate what he can do? And yes, of course my character will insure his own safety; do you not realise how easy it is to kill a 3 constitution character? If he can, why wouldn't he take precautions? As for the Varshikar thing, you're frankly an idiot. Before that, we were in the tavern, (Athian, Avalyon and Will), when Munalander comes in screaming "hilfe hilfe!", so we asked him what was wrong and he said Varshikar was in trouble. We went, as it was Athian's place of residence and killed the ogres already there.
And, sure, my character is a poser. Is that against the rules?
Edit: Why would my character allow 4 people to lock them in a small room with them? That's just stupid, I "locked" the king in for 2 reasons.
1. The door was open when I summoned the wall. i.e. if I wanted to, I could remove the wall when I was done, and walk out without the door being locked. 2. It prevented the other dwarves from getting in. If I really had the dastardly intention of locking him in as an act of provocation, why would I go back and remove the second wall?
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Magdha Tiefenerz
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Hello!
All the dwarves Dominc and William met in the mine were online before William and Dominic showed up. There was no MSN or anything else. Magdha was mining when she heard "I hear smithing" but as she doesn't speak the New Language she could not make out anything. When she was finished she went back to the gates to put her ores and stones into the chest. There she met the other dwarves, who where already talking about William and Dominic, when these two showed up. Must have been a truly short visit to the shrine. That's where AlexRoses log starts.
With kind regards
All the dwarves Dominc and William met in the mine were online before William and Dominic showed up. There was no MSN or anything else. Magdha was mining when she heard "I hear smithing" but as she doesn't speak the New Language she could not make out anything. When she was finished she went back to the gates to put her ores and stones into the chest. There she met the other dwarves, who where already talking about William and Dominic, when these two showed up. Must have been a truly short visit to the shrine. That's where AlexRoses log starts.
With kind regards
Korm, those logs don't have time stamps on them, dwarves come and go, find a better arguement or leave.
Pharse, no one EVER follows the "trolls bane is full of hundreds of people as it is a town! of course only a few are players!" so don't bother using that out of the blue.
Faladron, stop posting unless you come up with something other than useless crap throughout the entire thread.
Pharse, no one EVER follows the "trolls bane is full of hundreds of people as it is a town! of course only a few are players!" so don't bother using that out of the blue.
Faladron, stop posting unless you come up with something other than useless crap throughout the entire thread.
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Werner von Mintraching
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NOWHERE have I accused you guys of using MSN. *I* was not the one who declared they were multiplying. And what do you expect, we just walked there, I showed him around (it was right round the corner), we made some comments on it and came back, where we were confronted. Yes, we would have walked on again if you all hadn't come out to meet us.Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:Hello!
All the dwarves Dominc and William met in the mine were online before William and Dominic showed up. There was no MSN or anything else. Magdha was mining when she heard "I hear smithing" but as she doesn't speak the New Language she could not make out anything. When she was finished she went back to the gates to put her ores and stones into the chest. There she met the other dwarves, who where already talking about William and Dominic, when these two showed up. Must have been a truly short visit to the shrine. That's where AlexRoses log starts.
With kind regards
And pfft, I don't need to pose; I'm awesome both ways.
Why don't you go back to the swamp and powergame dodging with flies and with two shields?Retlak wrote:
Faladron, stop posting unless you come up with something other than useless crap throughout the entire thread.
Can you denie that you have some sort of inferiority complex that you try to live out by powergaming fighter characters and then push people around as you please?
And no Alex: You don't play an arrogant character you play yourself having magical abilities and a "I can do everything b i ches (add the t)" attitude in fairy-fantasy-wonderland. That's a huge difference and that's what i dislike about you. The most as you (and a lot of other people) see other characters as source of enjoyment and not fellow players and people behind that will get frustrated if they are constantly opressed and annoyed by others.
So one word to you: Poser
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Magdha Tiefenerz
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- Location: Kupferberge - Copper Mountains
Hello!
With kind regards
Sorry, the topic about the use of MSN came up and I had to clarify it. I didn't accuse you of bringing it up, so please don't jump on me.AlexRose wrote: NOWHERE have I accused you guys of using MSN. *I* was not the one who declared they were multiplying. And what do you expect, we just walked there, I showed him around (it was right round the corner), we made some comments on it and came back, where we were confronted. Yes, we would have walked on again if you all hadn't come out to meet us.
I don't have to say anything to this, as it speaks for itself.AlexRose wrote:And pfft, I don't need to pose; I'm awesome both ways.
With kind regards
Why don't you go back to the swamp and powergame dodging with flies and with two shields? Rolling Eyes
Can you denie that you have some sort of inferiority complex that you try to live out by powergaming fighter characters and then push people around as you please?
Aww, da wittle baby waby got upset?
Kid, i have not powergamed in months, and i deleted these characters to go fresh. I've probably done more for the community than you aswell in my overall time here, so go cry elsewhere with that crap, like my PM box.
I like how people try to use my ironic statements as an argument to prove the opposite point.
Oh and Faladron: Can you deny that you have nothing to do with this argument, and yet you persist to scrabble about in the dark and try to exacturate small things with insinuation?
And yeah, my character is a source of enjoyment for other characters. Just not yours.
Oh and Faladron: Can you deny that you have nothing to do with this argument, and yet you persist to scrabble about in the dark and try to exacturate small things with insinuation?
And yeah, my character is a source of enjoyment for other characters. Just not yours.
Wow, some people here are being very childish *coughs* FALADROOON *coughs* I wonder who...
Being serious, you guys are ATTACKING his RP, because people have proven that he did "nothing" agaisnt the rules and "nothing" wrong, and you don't know what to say to defend your "side" so since you just want to be right, you guys are trying to make William look bad? Thats just..horribly childish and it's not even the subject of the topic, the topic of the subject is if William and Dom DESERVED to be banned, not if their RP is good or not. You guys needs to seriously grow up, yes even you grandpa.
Being serious, you guys are ATTACKING his RP, because people have proven that he did "nothing" agaisnt the rules and "nothing" wrong, and you don't know what to say to defend your "side" so since you just want to be right, you guys are trying to make William look bad? Thats just..horribly childish and it's not even the subject of the topic, the topic of the subject is if William and Dom DESERVED to be banned, not if their RP is good or not. You guys needs to seriously grow up, yes even you grandpa.
I liked how earlier you said something like Retlak or others from the american crew. He is not american. He is less a powergamer than thorwald or the countless other dwarves with extremely high skills. All this is pointless. Everything in this thread has been about the temple or William and Dominic. We are yet to get a clear answer for why the GMs treated either group unfairly.Faladron wrote:Why don't you go back to the swamp and powergame dodging with flies and with two shields?Retlak wrote:
Faladron, stop posting unless you come up with something other than useless crap throughout the entire thread.
Can you denie that you have some sort of inferiority complex that you try to live out by powergaming fighter characters and then push people around as you please?
And no Alex: You don't play an arrogant character you play yourself having magical abilities and a "I can do everything b i ches (add the t)" attitude in fairy-fantasy-wonderland. That's a huge difference and that's what i dislike about you. The most as you (and a lot of other people) see other characters as source of enjoyment and not fellow players and people behind that will get frustrated if they are constantly opressed and annoyed by others.
So one word to you: Poser
@Nitram
We are in different timezones so we can't do every quest, this is not the issue. The issue is, we are still people, people who want to be treated as fair as possible. Which is not happening.
Well, but one should follow the "Oh I shouldn't provoke the King of Silverbrand, they could hunt me down with the help of their friends stated in contracts."Retlak wrote:Pharse, no one EVER follows the "trolls bane is full of hundreds of people as it is a town! of course only a few are players!" so don't bother using that out of the blue.
Anyway, I wrote, what I wanted to write. It was just stupid (by Dom and Will) to go in there and "play around". But I imply that this wasn't the intention by both POs (let act theire chars in a stupid way), so I think they made a mistake - at the expense of other players. What I can't stand is the immature behaviour to deny such mistakes and defend oneself to the bitter end.
It seems as if Alex is afraid of showing weakness. I can assure: it won't kill anyone...
There is no discussion about if they deserve it or not.
The staff says the ban was needed.
The players are allowed to accept that. Nothing else.
You can moan, discuss and talk around here, as much as you like. It will not change anything. You are not the ones who say who deserves a ban or not.
If you do not like this, its your problem.
And thats the end of that topic.
Nitram
The staff says the ban was needed.
The players are allowed to accept that. Nothing else.
You can moan, discuss and talk around here, as much as you like. It will not change anything. You are not the ones who say who deserves a ban or not.
If you do not like this, its your problem.
And thats the end of that topic.
Nitram