The Temple

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:18 pm

well, i don't think, that i have a dislike for players. (not even, if they post me smiles instead of smilies)
but i have a strong dislike for certain stiles of play.
one of these is elitism.
another one is recklessness regarding the rest of the comunity.
and, last, not least: cheating.

i fear, that all of those points are aplicable to todays temple-chars.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:19 pm

This is were you "baddies" are seriously wrong, I was twice killed off by the actions of the temple player and the only thing temple player nowadays care is the fun for THEM and for THEIR OWN GROUP, they attack, kill and slash anyone in their reach without much rp reason and sure some good people might not be reasonable sometimes, but they don't destroys others moods like the actually baddies are, I still think the only good played bad char I have seen in ages was Darlok, everything else is just some ..meh wannabe played chars, which destroy the moods of everyone else and just have fun in their tiny killer troop.

Nobody likes these engine fights, as it just shows how much time you waisted ig and nothing more, its finally time that those players are punished, because they flee from every consequenz ig with their powergamed status.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:29 pm

Pell, you were killed by Richard Martins, a player who absolutely clouded everyone for fun, hense why he got his perm ban.

We couldn't help that, don't judge the temple by his actions, because it's just one person who did wrong.

I know you dislike the temple po's ooc because who you always flame with the same arguement about us related to powergaming etc.

I'll say it again Pell. I have no powergamed chars anymore since weeks, so stop 'grouping' us as a whole into a powergamers status, and learn some better arguements than to just get pissed over getting ctrl clicked by richie repeatidly.

Post by **Nitram** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:31 pm

Shall we just blow up the whole island, kill all characters and start a new game?

Or is it possible that ALL of you start acting like reasonable humans?

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:34 pm

@ retlak:
*coughs* because you can't *cough*

but pell has made some points right there. you pked a lot. Not only richard. Dain did. Grivijak did. Avalyon did. Ofcourse you hade more style than richard, while doing it, but considering the amount of kills, and the randomness of victims choice, speaks for pking not for rpking.

@ nitters:

char whipe? i am in!

*hides*

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:37 pm

Shall we just blow up the whole island, kill all characters and start a new game?

that would hurt the "victims" more, than the "delinquents".
who do you think, would have the most powerfull chars within days?

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:39 pm

ehm.. korm will?

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:39 pm

I admit nory, i used to cloud a fair amount of players, but even you know now, since you took me in for a couple of quests as a npc, that i give a good chance for the char not to get clouded now, because i dislike it.

I bet even Pell can say that when the incident with Richard Fighting Jorokar happened, Grivijak attacked Pell but most certainly did nothing to cloud her. ^^

@ retlak:
*coughs* because you can't *cough*

I can't for one char, but nothing stops Grivijak, yet he still has low skills

Ylara Dervan · Post by **Ylara Dervan** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:40 pm

Korm Kormsen wrote:
Shall we just blow up the whole island, kill all characters and start a new game?
that would hurt the "victims" more, than the "delinquents".
who do you think, would have the most powerfull chars within days?

/absolutly signed

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:40 pm

no, avalyon, because i would be too busy, building a new village.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:42 pm

Korm Kormsen wrote:i found some other players, to found a far of settlement.
constantly when our players are sleeping, we get visited by members of the streetgang.
they come, they play some stupid jokes, they leave before we start playing again. (a hurray for the onlinelist!).

If you mean the time there were gnolls in your pig pens, some things.

A. Caelum =/= temple.
B. We didn't check the online list, we were at the gnolls to get steak and it was a "spur of the moment" thing.

I will continue to read the thread now

expect editing.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:42 pm

I said twice not once, you still seem to forgott the abusing of technical flaws from avalyons side, not to forgett what william and dominiq do all the time, they simpyl want to show off nothing more, has nothing to do with rp, just with the ego of the players.

Edit: William the temple and caelum seems pretty close, as you also have ther artifacts, so now saying that caelum wouldn't work like the temple is pretty....ah well..

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:48 pm

not to forget the msn gang assault on my questchar

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:50 pm

Temple really does have nothing to do with Caelum. Caelum nicked our stones, along with the grey rose, varshikar, trolls bane etc. Everyone has them, it's just most people have no clue how to use them.

The stones get removed on temple members decision anyway now.

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:51 pm

Noradur wrote:not to forget the msn gang assault on my questchar

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:54 pm

That 10 gold went to good use, don't worry.

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:55 pm

see how fair i am?

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:01 pm

Pellandria wrote:I said twice not once, you still seem to forgott the abusing of technical flaws from avalyons side, not to forgett what william and dominiq do all the time, they simpyl want to show off nothing more, has nothing to do with rp, just with the ego of the players.

Actually, Will has been invited to "invade Varshikar", "invade Grey Rose" and all of this many a time, and he refuses because of his position. Just because one of Caelum's members is a crazy psychopath (in some people's eyes) doesn't mean the whole town tries to "spoil other's fun". Would you relate Amras Seregon, Magnus Magnol, Aerandi Cuthalion etc. as "people who try to spoil the fun"?

The only reason Will came to Varshikar the other time was because A. He wasn't in a good mood beforehand. B. Pellandria had pissed him off. C. Dominic asked him to come not to "invade Varshikar" or the like, but to take care of Pellandria and D. Pellandria had not only insulted the two, she actually INVITED them to come and told them they were cowards to ignore their bans.

And Ephraim's items already got removed, no? Duchan's is gone.

Juliana D'cheyne · Post by **Juliana D'cheyne** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:01 pm

I haven't said anything until now, I have mixed feelings related to this, not reading every single post, I am just going to post my opinion only, and this is just an opinion.

1. Evil/bad chars ig spice up the game...it would be very boring without them. Whether they are called "temple", "Caelum" (teases) , Knights (again tease)or whatever.

2. These chars should be players.. for one thing, it is fun to RP, for another it gets a group of PO's together which is what the game is about....team. (be aware none of my chars are in the temple at present)

3. No ghosting, attacking verbally or PvP should be done by shady chars without first getting ooc permission from the PO. I did this with two other shady chars... sometime I got permission... other times not. Even when Juliana was "crazy" and ghosted and even perma-killed other chars, none were done without ooc permission from the PO (some of the problem here also is the reductiuon of skill upon this ghosting... it causes hard feelings between PO's in some cases, the interruption of RP is another problem)
Also, there should be plenty of ooc permission likewise if a group of "good" chars want to get together and fight the "shady" chars.
A possibility also is to have a sticky thread on who would allow PvP with possible ghosting, kidnapping etc., confrontation etc.

As far as the quest issue, again just my opinion... the actual temple was a long time ago, to claim still a quest after this length of time is a little much. The stones, they have also been around for a long time and yes there are quite a few non-temple members that have them also. It doesn't matter to me if they remain ig or not. If a quest against temple members, I would think ooc permission on just what would be allowed would be appropriate.

My idea of permission ig:

Achae: will allow confrontation, kidnapping, Pvp though she will not fight back and ghosting if sufficient RP leads up to it.

Kaila: will allow confrontation, kidnapping, Pvp, but no ghosting please.

Juliana: will allow confrontation, kidnapping, Pvp, possibly ghosting depending on circumstances... get ooc permission at the time.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:12 pm

Asking about kidnapping ooc is fine, but asking to pk someone is silly in some circumstances. I have only initiated a pk fight once (in varshikar against pella), and only usually pk when a ctrl click fight is initiated, unless it is guard duty (e.g. someone resists arrest and generally won't help in any way, won't respond to a #me tries to grab them or #me aims his wand "You'd better stop", this type of thing) and even then I usually gust+paralyse then try to get them to calm down. However, as I said before, if you are trying to intimidate someone and they won't respond (I really had to strain myself not to attack a goblin I won't name when William threatened him with fireballs and a big orc with two blades also, who laughed and just did nothing), won't even rp fight or anything; I doubt they are going to say you can pk them ooc, which is stupid, because that is the ONLY thing you can do without just ignoring them, otherwise they will just carry on not responding at all. e.g. if I try to rp grabbing someone running away from me and they don't respond, I will most likely paralyse them. It's stuff like that, and I guess a lot of people will refuse to be pked, if not everyone.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:20 pm

alex,

If you mean the time there were gnolls in your pig pens, some things.
B. We didn't check the online list, we were at the gnolls to get steak and it was a "spur of the moment" thing.

that, plus some giant bees sent from the neighbouring screen without any previous contacts.
and the simple fact, that you resort to such low level roleplay, to frequently enter a village, where your char is wanted. note: entering frequently, when the inhabitants are offline. or don't we suppose in this game, that settlements are allways inhabitated?

granted, neither the monsters in the pigpens, nor the bees were a real (tecnical) problem.
but it was so out of caracter, it simply did not fit your chars.

in real life, would you go in the street of your neighbour hooligans to smear some graffity at the walls, just, because you believe, they are sleeping? especially, if they warned you, that they want to beat you up?

that is just, what you do ingame.
a mage, somebody, who should have a certain selfesteem, and a (some) good fighter(s) going to danger, to tease a whole comunity in schoolboy manner.
just, because you know, that the mentioned danger does not exist temporary, because players have to sleep now and then.

you, the PO are an articulate young man (you prove that often enough), so i simply assume, that your intelligence should allow you, to understand, that roleplay is more, than a prefabricated emote now and then.

yes, this breech of role from you has angered me more, than the Ctrl+click assaults by the chars of some brutish players, who can not articulate themselves any better.

A. Caelum =/= temple.

well, for practical reasons, to the rest of us it does not matter, if you belong, or if you are just allied.

korm
.

Juliana D'cheyne · Post by **Juliana D'cheyne** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:23 pm

AlexRose wrote:Asking about kidnapping ooc is fine, but asking to pk someone is silly in some circumstances. I have only initiated a pk fight once (in varshikar against pella), and only usually pk when a ctrl click fight is initiated, unless it is guard duty (e.g. someone resists arrest and generally won't help in any way, won't respond to a #me tries to grab them or #me aims his wand "You'd better stop", this type of thing) and even then I usually gust+paralyse then try to get them to calm down. However, as I said before, if you are trying to intimidate someone and they won't respond (I really had to strain myself not to attack a goblin I won't name when William threatened him with fireballs and a big orc with two blades also, who laughed and just did nothing), won't even rp fight or anything; I doubt they are going to say you can pk them ooc, which is stupid, because that is the ONLY thing you can do without just ignoring them, otherwise they will just carry on not responding at all. e.g. if I try to rp grabbing someone running away from me and they don't respond, I will most likely paralyse them. It's stuff like that, and I guess a lot of people will refuse to be pked, if not everyone.

All I can say is it has worked for me on Illa.. if they don't respond in an appropriate RP way.. or if the other char does not ask permission likewise, it seems to me that would be the time to call a GM. If they would prefer no Pvp, there is always RP fights. I have seen this idea work in other games also.

Ylara Dervan · Post by **Ylara Dervan** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:26 pm

My idea of permission ig:

Achae: will allow confrontation, kidnapping, Pvp though she will not fight back and ghosting if sufficient RP leads up to it.

Kaila: will allow confrontation, kidnapping, Pvp, but no ghosting please.

Juliana: will allow confrontation, kidnapping, Pvp, possibly ghosting depending on circumstances... get ooc permission at the time.

I agree with this idea of letting others know what is allowed to a char, what is not allowed to.

At least I think, the players of those, who were ghosted inside the Rose yesturday weren't asked for permission first. So I think there should be an OOC knowlege of those who act in this 'quest' or whatever it is called.
I can understand that some players don't want their char get ghosted or something else. So please let us all get the next step without all that bitching and stuff.

For the IG-Situation:
I think that it is just action and reaction of those who play a bad char or group...to get beaten up at a certain point like it is now. Quest or not. GM-Ruled Quest or Players-Idea there have to be consequences. Anything else would be bad ROLEPLAY.

Just a szene out of Reallife:
if you injure someone really bad....you must live with the consequences that friends will try to defend or help the ones who are injured. Or even think of revenge. --ACTION ----REACTION....

Some of you acted. Now they have to deal with the reactions...

Just think of it a bit.

P.S.: This will be my last word in this case

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:38 pm

Korm Kormsen wrote:alex,

If you mean the time there were gnolls in your pig pens, some things.
B. We didn't check the online list, we were at the gnolls to get steak and it was a "spur of the moment" thing.
that, plus some giant bees sent from the neighbouring screen without any previous contacts.
and the simple fact, that you resort to such low level roleplay, to frequently enter a village, where your char is wanted. note: entering frequently, when the inhabitants are offline. or don't we suppose in this game, that settlements are allways inhabitated?

I have entered the Nordmark twice EVER. Once when I didn't know where it was, once when Dom and Will went up. William cannot summon bees, his decisio skill is blue. One time when you were offline, and we don't run by the online list so we didn't even check.

granted, neither the monsters in the pigpens, nor the bees were a real (tecnical) problem.
but it was so out of caracter, it simply did not fit your chars.

Our characters don't exactly love the Nordmark, they walked up to look around there, and then put a couple of gnolls there.

in real life, would you go in the street of your neighbour hooligans to smear some graffity at the walls, just, because you believe, they are sleeping? especially, if they warned you, that they want to beat you up?

We didn't look on the freakin' online list, we were getting steak from the gnolls and Dom suggested walking north.

that is just, what you do ingame.
a mage, somebody, who should have a certain selfesteem, and a (some) good fighter(s) going to danger, to tease a whole comunity in schoolboy manner.

They walked north a bit. He actually refused to enter the buildings in case people were there.

A. Caelum =/= temple.
well, for practical reasons, to the rest of us it does not matter, if you belong, or if you are just allied.

korm
.

We're not even allied, they only supported Caelum in the war because they wanted the same as we wanted. e.g. Dain through the whole thing was saying "Just because I fight with you doesn't mean I like you".

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:47 pm

Alex calm down. The rest of the isle doesn't care if Caelum is truely on the temples side or not. All that they can see is that they are working together some how and are associated, and that is all that matters to some of our characters. Don't bother OOCly defending Caelum's actions because none of us care. This is an ig problem and an ig matter that will be solved ig.

Guir Rabenflügel · Post by **Guir Rabenflügel** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:47 pm

Just a short post and my only post to this.

I totaly agree with Ylara and Juliana.
I was in the Grey Refuge yesterday and for me it was not funny it was absolutly §?&%$&//

After this sh** I was down, angry, depressed. I think this was not good roleplay, this was just click and fight. Later there was roleplay, but just a few sentences long and then again it was click and fight.
One of my worst days in Illa. Now I think: "Should I go ingame or will it be as worse as yesterday?"

Greisling · Post by **Greisling** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:50 pm

Fact is that there is no other group of players (or call them guild) who has clouded as many chars as the memebrs of the Temple/Caelum did.

Fact is that the POs in such "Clouding Fits" have annoyed many players in past. I would even say that they have annoyed more players with their cloudings than the Temple/Caelum has members.

Fact is also that by clouding some characters or just by attacking them, these chars would normally get in serious IG trouble. Since they are overpowergamed and seem not to understand anything else than getting clouded on their own, there is little will of other players to stand against them.

Fact is that the Temple has not shown any fear of any IG sanctions in past.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:52 pm

Dantagon Marescot wrote:Alex calm down. The rest of the isle doesn't care if Caelum is truely on the temples side or not. All that they can see is that they are working together some how and are associated, and that is all that matters to some of our characters. Don't bother OOCly defending Caelum's actions because none of us care. This is an ig problem and an ig matter that will be solved ig.

I only mentioned that because he said they are "allianced" as if it were fact. Likewise, you saying "They can see" (which means "This is true", otherwise it would be "they believe") "they are walking together somehow and are associated" is also something I would have to disagree with. i.e. One of the temple members being friends with one of Caelum members hardly constitutes "working together".

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:02 pm

@ alex: stop ignoring it

Noradur wrote:
Noradur wrote:not to forget the msn gang assault on my questchar

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:05 pm

One of the temple members being friends with one of Caelum members hardly constitutes "working together".

no, but conquering a town together, oppressing that town together, having some fine killer journeys together, won't that look like an alliance to the poblation of the isle?
AND to the POs?
and, you, alex, know it. you are just starting to tell stories now, to talk yourself out of consequences, because the point might be reached in a couple of weeks, where you all have angered everybody enough, for a coalition to be formed.