The Temple

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:08 am

It is clear that some players and at least one GM want the temple gone and all of it's members perm killed. I am also about 90% sure that there is a quest in the works to do this. I will personally say I don't have any interest in the quest. The temple doesn't either. We will ignore the attempts to destroy the temple that any GM makes. This is a player guild and not a quest. I know you don't understand so speak the following out loud.

THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST

Oh, our blackstones? They have no advantage other than not having to walk to the farthest corner of the island. We still have to walk back. Just not there. A high skilled mage can teleport rather close to the temple anyways. So, we are not quest characters and I will not allow any of my characters to be perm killed because of something relating to the temple for a good long while because of the current events.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:18 am

do i understand that right?
you say it is your right, to spoil everybodies fun of the game, but it is nobodies right, to do something against it?

or did i missinterprete you?

Shenandrea · Post by **Shenandrea** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:21 am

Korm i just understand it like you did. so who else thinks that?

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:22 am

Korm Kormsen wrote:do i understand that right?
you say it is your right, to spoil everybodies fun of the game, but it is nobodies right, to do something against it?

or did i missinterprete you?

You "missinterprette" me...or whatever...

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:26 am

You people are thinking of the old temple, i wish you would get it into your heads..

OLD TEMPLE = run by Nalzaxx, and several other quest chars, blackstone lead instantly out of danger when members are in trouble, the temple was innaccessable completely.

CURRENT TEMPLE = run by PLAYER CHARS, easilly accessable by EVERYONE, Stones can't lead instantly out of trouble, heck, we don't even have a flipping temple, it's a volcano of 10x10 tiles.

Current temple also has 3 members only or something stupid.

So please stop mixing the two up, it's not hard to learn the difference, so do it.

And no our player chars will not be perma killed by your requests.

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:33 am

Hur hur, funny how things turn out, when i fool your minds a bit.

Too be honest: I hate the temple. I hated it as a player and my resposibility as a quester yet hasn't changed a thing about this.

But even though i hate this overpowered guild, which pushing might be not existing anymore, but was there long enough to give y'all an advantage in developing your influence, which makes it still a pushed guild, YES EVEN THEN, i am still fair.

I will give you a fair chance to stay alive, and if you prove yourself as true roleplayers. But remember this: "Fair" doesn't mean "soft".

If you dont like it, then regard the guys finger on my avatar very closely.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:34 am

if i missinterprete, then, please, be so kind to explain more detailed, what you mean.

Fianna Heneghan · Post by **Fianna Heneghan** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:47 am

@ Korm: You seem like a reasonable guy. Do you really think the game suffers from a bit of badness?

I personally like the conflict and tension. It produces great role play opportunities that just don't exist otherwise. The bad guys are easy enough to spot if you want to stay clear. And it has been my experience that they enjoy having their boundaries pushed too. Push back a little.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:52 am

Noradur wrote:Hur hur, funny how things turn out, when i fool your minds a bit.

Too be honest: I hate the temple. I hated it as a player and my resposibility as a quester yet hasn't changed a thing about this.

But even though i hate this overpowered guild, which pushing might be not existing anymore, but was there long enough to give y'all an advantage in developing your influence, which makes it still a pushed guild, YES EVEN THEN, i am still fair.

I will give you a fair chance to stay alive, and if you prove yourself as true roleplayers. But remember this: "Fair" doesn't mean "soft".

If you dont like it, then regard the guys finger on my avatar very closely.

Don't annoy me any more Noradur..(Don't you love the ring to that?)
It is almost funny after the BS I saw today from you. Why did you come as a certain character in game today? Hmm? How about we speak of the overpowered-gm pushed-grey rose? I mean..the temple is overpowered? We have two mages and three warriors. In the grey rose today we had TWO temple members. Avalyon came later to make three. But we never had three within sight of each other during this. We are not a pushed guild. We have no ties to the old temple other than a few members and the same name. We were never given stat or skill bonuses. So uhm.. STFU about calling us pushed...thanks...

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:41 am

Fianna,

a year and a half ago i started at illarion. i started with a farmer.
my second char was made as a carpenter.
within the first four months these two peacefull chars together got clouded more than a dozen times.
my chars left greenbriar, because it's atmosphere was destroyed "from a bit of badness".
because i am not so experienced in PGing it took me all of a year, to convert my farmer in a real fighter.
and you really can not imagine, how boring it was for me, to go over and over again to bang on some monsters head, instead of crafting, trading and socializing.
but everytime i was slacking with my training, there was someone of the msn-streetgang, who assaulted and robbed my char. just often enough, to learn, that there are not only bad chars, but the players behind the chars seem spoiled.
how would you love it, to get robbed thrice by the same char, just to learn, that he never took the effort, to even remember his victims.
being robbed with the same stored emotes, letter for letter.

a couple of days ago i had my first PvP, that was based on roleplay.
before that, everytime, i had to fight against a playerchar, it was in defence against minimum emote robbers of just that group, that now starts feeling uncomfortable.
i found some other players, to found a far of settlement.
constantly when our players are sleeping, we get visited by members of the streetgang.
they come, they play some stupid jokes, they leave before we start playing again. (a hurray for the onlinelist!)

i am really tired of "that bit of badness".

and it makes me sad, if i have to read: "we don't even have a flipping temple" from one of those, who spend lots of time, to pg their chars untill they even pee yellow.

look around you!
the quiet, friendly players are dissapearing, one by one. the game got a grim undertone.

just by a bit of badness.

korm
.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:08 am

Korm you know what? Smile you

. Dain, you've heard of him? His highest skill is level 80. A year and a half to get there. I do socialize with others while I trained in the past. Right now I am at the gnolls with three wonderful RPers. I have one skill that is near yellow. Highest skill(except mining) I have got since the Java client came out. So uhm..Smile off you smiling smile of a smile.

MSN gang?....ehh..I for one don't go...HEY! lets get this guy because he's alone! I have never had a thief character for more than a week. I know some MSN happened in the grey rose today. Was extremely bad RP. There were about 5 Grey Rose members on...then BAM 12 of them and friends! We were like uhhh... In the last 5+ years I've lurked around here. I have seen and heard so much shit like you just posted. Your just plain wrong.

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:25 am

Lrmy wrote: Don't annoy me any more Noradur..(Don't you love the ring to that?)
It is almost funny after the BS I saw today from you. Why did you come as a certain character in game today? Hmm? How about we speak of the overpowered-gm pushed-grey rose? I mean..the temple is overpowered? We have two mages and three warriors. In the grey rose today we had TWO temple members. Avalyon came later to make three. But we never had three within sight of each other during this. We are not a pushed guild. We have no ties to the old temple other than a few members and the same name. We were never given stat or skill bonuses. So uhm.. STFU about calling us pushed...thanks...

eh.. what ring? ( maybe the ring on pac's middlefinger for you? )

Korm just mentioned most of the things, which are making it reasonable to annoy you back a bit. And about the BS you saw from me today.
The certain character showed up there random. I was logging in, my logspot was the refuge, heared voices and walked over. I am sooo close to reveal my identity just to prove everybody how wrong you are.
And even if you are not worthy it, yes, my char is a member of the grey orders, and was long before i became gm. I was there today, with a PC, yeah, so? We had gm activity when lennier was almost dead and praying to malachin. We had no pushed chars nor gm activity involved in the fight.
Now.. the grey rose isn't pushed at all. The castle is build out of its members sweat, silver material and everything, and is the first guild building in illarions history, which makes it logical to be the most powerful guild.

But if you want to:
I will hunt you moaning crookchars down with my gm chars, listen to every word you say, and mark every little mistake you do, and even turn it so i can ban you as quick as possible, just to show you illarion with the kind of crooked gms you think we are!

but no, i am fair. i even reward 1 1/2 years of bullshit with a final quest. Other people called me generous for that, but ... aah... nevermind.

I will give you a fair chance to stay alive, and if you prove yourself as true roleplayers.

The more you moan about it oocly, and the less you react properly ingame, the more you destroy your chances..

think about that

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:34 am

Noradur. I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY. I have no respect for you anymore. The GM powers are way to far ingrained into your head. You mix OOC and IC feelings. You called me a Fucking powergamer. You have no self control.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:38 am

Lrmy,

why are you getting nervous?
did you really expect, that we all would love you guys for damaging everybodyelses fun?
or is it, because now there is a traitor in your group, instead of in the oponent's group?
five plus years you are at illarion? what a pity, that you did not learn in all that time, that the optimum would be, if everybody could have fun in a game. not just a little group, that is only able to destroy things.
the way, you guys run TB is straight out of westsidestory, but either you don't care, or you can't do any better.

you are smiling a lot in your post. does that mean, that you don't have arguments?

ah, thanks for the anouncement, that you and three of your buddies trespass, when all but one of the nordmark players are sound asleep.

korm
.

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:40 am

I dont need to controll myself, i am busy enough to controll players like you, not spoiling everything..

but anyway this is getting ridicoulous

I call fo LOCK

Shingo · Post by **Shingo** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:41 am

...Just cause i feel he is being attacked and i don't have any problem with him as a player...

It was actually a chance meeting. It was me and two of my friends that happened to see him there. We weren't doing anything that you had said in your previous post.

And because of him i have had some really really good rp opportunities in the last few days. Some of the best I have ever hard. He wasn't in them, but regardless, they were because of him. So because his character is ig, i am having more fun as a player right now.

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:44 am

Thats the most sad thing about it.

THEY ALL ARE ABLE TO ROLEPLAY JUST AMAZING

but..

for some reason they think its more fun to cloud others, randomly..

like just today in the shop:

you called me an idiot, RUN *slashes*

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:58 am

I didn't mean to kill him and I don't care I did. If some crafter was asked to leave by a man holding blades to him and didn't.. he clearly isn't to bright.............

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:13 am

the problem is, you use every opportunity to have an engine fight.

dont deny it.

Alytys Lamar · Post by **Alytys Lamar** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:27 am

*looks over all and thinks.. *gives me not the wish to return to this game*

Thank you all .. and i mean ALL

everbody should feel free to play what he want... that include the temple for me ! And Noradur... not good if you say you hate a couple of players and the way they play..

Also I dislike Uber-killers...

But anyway.. toss your flame shit over me now.. *shrugs* I don't care !

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:48 am

whoah there... i dont hate the players, nor do i hate the characters..
i hate the temple!
but
yeah, maybe i shouldn't have said that... but i can help it, its the way i feel about it

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:21 am

I have to say that this is all getting out of hand. Not just ig, but ooc as well. Personally I have no problem with there being a temple, however it is made up mostly of powergamers whom we have no chance to fight if caught alone. Which is something that happens quite a bit when we get attacked. I also worry that if a war were to be raged against the temple by people playing ic, it would be worthless as once again, we would be picked off one by one in the middle of the night when no one is on. We can be perma-killed, but they can't.

I see nothing wrong with there being a temple its self. Just that in a way it has become to powerful again and may be unwilling to play by the rules. I would far more enjoy equal opertunity fights between temple and non-temple members which does not involve using ctrl or click. More rped fights where both can get away without fear of clouding. Right now I fear any confrontation that may involve the swinging of swords as for now it means I am about to lose all of my items and possibly some skill. I find that if a player knows that they can defeat you by way of skill, they will never rp it other wise.

Lastly, if a war does break out to destroy the temple, please play fair. If the point of it is to remove the temple and TB is supposively under seige, I do not want to see people escaping in the middle of the night to kill people who are alone. It wouldn't be right or fair. Please, if something major happens ig, I want both sides to enjoy themselves and have fun. Though I would also appreciate it if the temple would agree to allowing themselves to be beat if they are beaten, arrested if they are arrested, and die if they are killed. The temple's antics grow old in many people's eyes. I agree with Alytys that people should have a right to play the way they want; however, not under constant threat would be nice.

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:30 am

Alytys Lamar wrote:everbody should feel free to play what he want...

I don't really agree with that, or not fully at least. So if I want to play a char who I will have fun with to cloud others, then I can feel free?

Players have responsabilities that their char's actions will effect other chars and other players. Illarion is no fun game if each player plays for his own fun. It will simply not work, and not move on.

Of course, a little bit of tension, fear and stuff like that...that's always needed in the game, true. But once you know a few chars who are 'evil', and you know that those chars will often be around, then it becomes unpleasant to even play. It literally gives no point in hunting them, as they will be clouded (if successful), then on another day, they come back to cloud you.

I can't say I'm really too fond of Nory's idea, but I'm neither against. It may however be inevitable, because I somewhat agree that evil chars should be ready (and players responsible) to make their char fall. I know it is a bit unfair of having built a char over months than having him killed is...unpleasant. And please, don't come with the discussion 'if evil chars die, then good chars too!'.

Baddies tend to shatter good moods, ruin situations, spread stress and tension, leads to unpleasant situations etc... Of course it is fun to have your char's mood shattered, you char fearing etc... but not if that keeps happening over months over the same char. That's part of the reason why fear is reducing, in my opinion. Good chars do not have the large responsability of being the fun-mood-breakers. They organize pleasant events, have fun-building situations and so on.

Once again, I always felt it wrong and bad to have chars killed after watching them grow and develop. But the responsability should have come from the player from the moment the char is created. Evil that comes and remains there and never goes becomes no fun at all, rather distressing.

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:31 am

Lrmy wrote:It is clear that some players and at least one GM want the temple gone and all of it's members perm killed. I am also about 90% sure that there is a quest in the works to do this. I will personally say I don't have any interest in the quest. The temple doesn't either. We will ignore the attempts to destroy the temple that any GM makes. This is a player guild and not a quest. I know you don't understand so speak the following out loud.

THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST
THE TEMPLE IS NOT A QUEST

Oh, our blackstones? They have no advantage other than not having to walk to the farthest corner of the island. We still have to walk back. Just not there. A high skilled mage can teleport rather close to the temple anyways. So, we are not quest characters and I will not allow any of my characters to be perm killed because of something relating to the temple for a good long while because of the current events.

That is totaly wrong in my eyes. The Temple was initialized as a quest. The advantages for the temple was because it was a quest. I never ever would give a player guild an item like the blackstones without doing anything for it, i never ever would give a player guild special powers without acting in a quest.

With this post i can say. Bye for all the advantages to the temple wich they got because it WAS A QUEST.

Thorvald · Post by **Thorvald** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:58 am

Hm, since I haven't been able to be active for months now I don't really know much what is going on ingame, apart from the things (like this thread) I read on the boards.

I have a question: This 10x10 volcano, like someone mentioned it. Is it still the same temple area that it used to be during the quest? Because if it is, then 10x10 is bit of an understatement.

And another question: If it is the said place that has been used for the quest temple, then: did you pay something for it?

Cassandra Fjurin wrote:With this post i can say. Bye for all the advantages to the temple wich they got because it WAS A QUEST.

I agree. I would like the blackstone to be removed. On the same hand I wish to have another certain item removed that is in the hands of another few chars who were once close to the char Ephraim and that teleported them to a certain spot. Because fairness should be something that counts for everyone. If the temple can't have teleporting blackstones, then other players should not be able to obtain such a similar item either.

And last but not least I would welcome if the tone in this thread gets calmer again. And that counts for both, players and staff. (I'm not saying any names...)

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:02 am

gottcha..

but on that point i should be fair enough to mention that the temple doesn't use the old quest temple area, but have a new area to do it.

for the rest. I will soonly announce the quest getting started, and those who moaned will feel sorry for it, and realize that its plain fair.

Thorvald · Post by **Thorvald** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:04 am

Noradur wrote: but on that point i should be fair enough to mention that the temple doesn't use the old quest temple area, but have a new area to do it.

So they paid for this area, like any other guild/chars play for their spots as well?

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:21 am

its just some area in a vulcano with no funiture altar or whatever.. just local map, they declared for themself.. though they work on their own place, so i've heard.

Wu · Post by Wu » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:49 am

Thorvald wrote:If the temple can't have teleporting blackstones, then other players should not be able to obtain such a similar item either.

Why is the blackstone so bad? or the items mentioned in the latter portion of this quote? They really don't give a character an unfair advantage... especially with good rpers. If someone you are fighting runs away then hides behind a building to use his/her nifty stone that is just bad rp. I honestly think items like that are very appealing to players (don't have a stone) like me and I have seen plenty of newbies go crazy with delight when a temple blackstone lights up. IMO it is something to look forward to and I wouldn't mind seeing more things like that available to players.

I keep hearing things like people are leaving because of monotonous bad guy rps and that characters are just too concerned with having their own fun and not worried about the overall community. Its just a game people. The more RL emotions and ideals you put into this game and its community is going to increase the RL risk/stress and WILL eventually effect your IG presence and characters. I used to get

PISSED

playing video games and still do at competitive games. But when I started playing this game that emotion was no longer there because it isnt about WINNING AND LOSING it is about RP.

And as long as you are RPing why in the hell should someone have to perma their character, this is not RL. When someone pulls something like PO Chris did then complain but I believe I read it somewhere, clouding characters is not against the rules. You don't want to get clouded then run away if you still get clouded speak with the PO.

to Reiterate if you don't want to read the above shit.
BE-CAREFUL WHAT YOU PUT INTO THIS GAME AND WHAT YOU EXPECT OUT.

*Edit* You might get your feelings hurt otherwise.

Post by **Nitram** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:11 am

Is it the "lets all get mad"-Day or something? Did I miss the annoucement that today everyone has to act even worse then usually?

@all: The temple gets direct support by the old teleporting black stones. As long as those stones work and give support to the temple member, support no other guild gets, the temple is a quest. With the complete removing of that stones without replacement, we can speak about taking that state away.

@lrmy: Without a little respect in front of our gms you are playing the wrong game. Sorry.

And now calm down. This is getting a little to far. As Aleytys said. The game should be fun to everyone. Thougth the most players have no fun at all from the roleplay athmosphere spreaded by the temple and Caelum, both guilds are still leaded and played by players. Those should think a little about the others who's fun at this game is distroyed by their roleplay. And all others should think about that the players who cause the trouble are players after all too and want fun too.

Maybe once we all understand that we can't play that game against each other. Only with each other.

Nitram