The Wipe

Ortrud · Post by **Ortrud** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:05 pm

I was not very happy to loose a lot of things i liked, but now it is like it is!

I will try to help the crew, by login and find out the bugs an post them here in the forum.

To Martin and the other members of the staff and Gm`s, THANK YOU for the work that you´ve done and you will do for us players.

An Martin und alle von der Crew und die GM`s, DANK EUCH für die Arbeit die Ihr für uns Spieler getan habt und tun werdet.

Tinuva Geogroda · Post by **Tinuva Geogroda** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:13 pm

Well, Tinuva doesnt wear his good armor normally, only in times of war and such things, same for the good weapons =/ well, guess Tinuva must live with that

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:33 pm

I haven't logged in with Dusty yet to see the "Millions" of silver he might have, but that doesn't matter either.

I could relearn the crafts easily as several skills of my "Master Craftsman" are yellow. But that doesn't matter either.

I propose a total character wipe.

How comes that it are ever the biggest powergamers in illarion who want a wipe? oh yes, right...because they ARE the biggest powergamers. After a wipe those players will get skills and items back in a short time, since they do powergame alot, while all other players who roleplay more and got their skills and items over many month or even years have massive disadvantages. Every time i see a powergamer calling for a wipe it shows me that they are unfair and would like to see many players getting frustrated and quit just so that they can have their advantage again.
honestly...every powergamer calling for a char wipe should simply shutup and go back to their mindless powergaming instead of trying to destroy it for the real roleplayers who worked damn hard for that what they posses since THEY won't stand 6 hurs a day ingame and working.

and about the topic. a warning WOULD have been better. sure, there were many items obtained through unbalancing, but many players got with their chars also items from quests. And THAT is what frustrates me. that you took those players their questrewards which they earned for their attending in ingame happenings. those items were more than just some armors or weapons. it were also memory, and trophys. you should have atleast made sure those poeples with questrewards won't be kicked into their croins by all this.
also you should have told us that you will make an itemwipe the moment you decided about it. my char bought last weak on the dwarven market items for the trollsbane armory and gave the traders a massive amount of coins. and now the coins are gone and the items aswell, thanks to the missing informations for us players. and i still have to buy the items since the town needs them, just that they are now much more expensive. That was not really fair. you should have told us about your plans, so that we don't throw the stuff away.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:39 pm

OOC-warning-would make it unfair to those who are not online over the last few days. Some items are worth a LOT now, items which have been produceable because of the imbalanced-ness of the old system, and Anyhow, the most of us now have a nice bunch of nifty silver, even if i also may grief about the loss of an excellent rainbow sword and an excellent elven armor. But hey, if all the usual stuff turned into silver too, it's not too bad.
I'll log in now and look what is left of the few high quality items in my depot. And hope that if i don't find them anymore, i'd at least find a nice amount silver. We'll see ! Complaining doesn't make sense anyhow, and the new crafting system should be fun.

Tinuva Geogroda · Post by **Tinuva Geogroda** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:43 pm

Damien wrote:OOC-warning-would make it unfair to those who are not online over the last few days. Anyhow, everyone of us has a nice bunch of nifty silver, even if i also grief about the loss of an excellent rainbow sword and an excellent elven armor.

I hope the new crafting system makes it also possible for chars that were balanced years ago to work fine again. Otherwise Tinuva lost his items without having a chance to get anything back when he spilled the silvers =/

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:43 pm

I know that the gms said questitems may be given back...but how can they be sure if an item was really a questitem or not, and if the char really had that item? samantha got 3 excellent element staffs in quests, how can i proof that she really had them and that they were questitems?
Sure, some chars have it easy. Kl'urk got in the last tournament several very good armors and a cloudshield...but how do we players really know how good that items were? my char could have seen them as very good, while they were excellent. or he could have saw something as excellent, while it is just good. reason is the difference in how you saw items qualities. how will that be determined later if quest items are given back?

that seems to be alot of work and problems...

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:45 pm

Quest items are not items you got from quests, but items that are unique-ish and used/important for solving running quests.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:46 pm

I just got my staff of wind turned into an apprentice staff and a silver LOL.. I also think that about 100 silvers are missing from my money bag

Wyrda · Post by **Wyrda** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:55 pm

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:
I haven't logged in with Dusty yet to see the "Millions" of silver he might have, but that doesn't matter either.

I could relearn the crafts easily as several skills of my "Master Craftsman" are yellow. But that doesn't matter either.

I propose a total character wipe.

How comes that it are ever the biggest powergamers in illarion who want a wipe? oh yes, right...because they ARE the biggest powergamers. After a wipe those players will get skills and items back in a short time, since they do powergame alot, while all other players who roleplay more and got their skills and items over many month or even years have massive disadvantages. Every time i see a powergamer calling for a wipe it shows me that they are unfair and would like to see many players getting frustrated and quit just so that they can have their advantage again.
honestly...every powergamer calling for a char wipe should simply shutup and go back to their mindless powergaming instead of trying to destroy it for the real roleplayers who worked damn hard for that what they posses since THEY won't stand 6 hurs a day ingame and working.

...coming from someone who got everything without having to work for it... you just don't want to lose samanatha.

I agree, i would like a character wipe too.

Tinuva Geogroda · Post by **Tinuva Geogroda** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:58 pm

Wyrda wrote:
Samantha Meryadeles wrote:
I haven't logged in with Dusty yet to see the "Millions" of silver he might have, but that doesn't matter either.

I could relearn the crafts easily as several skills of my "Master Craftsman" are yellow. But that doesn't matter either.

I propose a total character wipe.

How comes that it are ever the biggest powergamers in illarion who want a wipe? oh yes, right...because they ARE the biggest powergamers. After a wipe those players will get skills and items back in a short time, since they do powergame alot, while all other players who roleplay more and got their skills and items over many month or even years have massive disadvantages. Every time i see a powergamer calling for a wipe it shows me that they are unfair and would like to see many players getting frustrated and quit just so that they can have their advantage again.
honestly...every powergamer calling for a char wipe should simply shutup and go back to their mindless powergaming instead of trying to destroy it for the real roleplayers who worked damn hard for that what they posses since THEY won't stand 6 hurs a day ingame and working.
...coming from someone who got everything without having to work for it... you just don't want to lose samanatha.

I agree, i would like a character wipe too.

I wouldnt be bothered, my characters aren't very good in anything, I mostly only rp with them. Tinuva haves some nice skills somewhere, but since he was balanced it doesnt really make sense too now. Aslong you hold the name Tinuva Geogroda free you can do your thing =/

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:02 pm

Didn't care to read the whole thread but I guess pages 2-4 are similar to page 1 and can be summed up as "let's flame the devs"

I must say I think it is good, that SOMETHING was done trying to balance out a rather far-reaching change. Somebody will always complain, no matter what you do but I remember one time back in the "glory days" when nothing was done at all leading to real unfairness in my opinion...

Can't believe it, but I'm totally with the devs on this one

Tinuva Geogroda · Post by **Tinuva Geogroda** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:04 pm

I love the devs berengar, and I don't blame them on this point, they did a good job.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:06 pm

I <3 nitram
Marry me !

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:12 pm

martin wrote:Furthermore, noone asked for an RP-reasoning for THAT! I mean, seriously, what reason could there be that you know IN ADVANCE that items will be deleted?

Martin

The gods sent a prophet to warn us that they would send a massive rust-beetle swarm?

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:12 pm

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:that you took those players their questrewards which they earned for their attending in ingame happenings.

Read carefully, Patric: Questitems will be given back. I mentioned that already.

also you should have told us that you will make an itemwipe the moment you decided about it.

In fact, that was 3 minutes before the news appeared on the site. So, that happened. (You can ask Nop, Nitram and/or Vilarion about that, they'll tell you exactly the same)

So, what are you bitching about?

Martin

maryday · Post by **maryday** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:20 pm

Wyrda wrote: I agree, i would like a character wipe too.

((I may imagine, why..*giggles in the dark*))

EDIT: Not at all. Hard bread, water..and a corn-cake, i have baken two weeks ago.

Seriously.

EDITII:*because of offensive content*

Thorvald · Post by **Thorvald** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:21 pm

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 385#423385

There is a quest-reason given now. That means you can rp ingame now that your things have disappeared.

That would a good reason IMHO that quest items are not given back.

*

Hier gibt es jetzt einen Quest-Grund. Das heißt ihr könnt ingame rpen dass eure Sachen verschwunden sind.

Das wäre übrigens auch ein guter Grund, meiner Meinung nach, Questitems nicht zurückzugeben.

Wyrda · Post by **Wyrda** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:27 pm

maryday wrote:
Wyrda wrote: I agree, i would like a character wipe too.
((I may imagine, why..*giggles in the dark*))

I am also a part-time-powergamer[-uberVICTIM], but i had supported the idea, of a WIPE, as i read some of these posts,
and imagined my beloveth collection-of-perfect-armors-i-never-wore be gone..

((I did not even think of YOU!*extends her tongue*))

Then i noticed, my huge collection of blades-you-could-not-even-recognice-as-blades had turned to pure silver.
I had never sold my private-hidden-armory, and IF, I HAD gotten hundred silver for it, in the old system.
Now i have fifty silver, instead a bunch of things-i-only-saw-once-as-i-hid-them-away.

By the way, not all carried items stayed the same: A very bad rusty ornate dagger, on my belt got ..muuucho!
*digs a hole, and hides the... ,hoping none of the GMs feels offended *

((By the way...you can`t escape...I would have waited at the gates of Paradise.[They won`t let me in yet..i have tried..]))

i have never ever understood a thing you have said. You must be on some crazy sh*t.

nmaguire · Post by **nmaguire** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:38 pm

Phew! That was close! I'm SOOOO glad I lost my really rare drow blade!!!

:D:D (sarcasm, for all those who missed that ^^)

And, of course, because of a server shutdown a few days ago my character was trapped behind the red skeletons in the graveyard, with his last armor and weapons!! YAY!

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:48 pm

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:I just got my staff of wind turned into an apprentice staff and a silver LOL.. I also think that about 100 silvers are missing from my money bag

Damn, that wind wand I stole from Ava's gone >.<

Gildon · Post by **Gildon** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:53 pm

I personally don't care about the wipe, Rankor doesn't need any items to annoy people.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Well, I havn't checked ig yet(Server seems to be down, ect.)
But, from what I read, I don't really like this at all, since as mr poet(Headrian) stated, those wearing their good armour already, get a huge headstart.
Though, again, some things may be 'special' to a char, like for Kevin, an armour(And a really good one too) given to him by Stephan, he doesn't care for the guy anymore, but the armour still had a meaning to him.
I guess it's gone.
But it can be replaced in time too, though it couldn't be the same completely.
And for some, with special items, like for instance a firesword or such they earned loong ago, wich they usually couldn't get their hands on at all, just vanished, I can imagine them feeling totally pissed.

I understand your point, items staying would mean a fucked economy for a while, but honestly, I think (Only from what I know) it might've been better to just slide into it for now. Though, with those having like 100 swords stocked, to sell, I can imagine they would suddenly be filthy rich.

As with most things, there's no answer that will be good for everyone, but in my opinnion, perhaps just everything, or nothing should've gone, not somewhere inbetween.

Again, just from what I know now, still have to see the actual affect.

Ascius · Post by **Ascius** » Wed May 09, 2007 7:28 pm

Leaving items would mean to stop ecenomy for ever, because if it is really much harder to create better things and if it is not possible to create huge amounts of items in a short time anymore, then people who had 20 weapons and equally much armour stored would never have to buy anything.

The new system sounds very good. We should accept the few disadvantages, which are probably not even as horrible as many here name them to be.

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:55 pm

martin wrote: In fact, that was 3 minutes before the news appeared on the site. So, that happened. (You can ask Nop, Nitram and/or Vilarion about that, they'll tell you exactly the same)

3 minutes =/= warning time. I understand that you didn't expect it so fast and that you don't run the game, but I am pretty sure even Devs can say no. I'll live on, but I am rather disappointed in this turn of events. No more training equitment, no more back up equitment to give to those who need armor or weapons. Sure they were pretty bad weapons and infact I have earned more this way than from selling them, but it is the fact that he'll have to start over. Plus I need to find a replacement broad sword for the "Sword of Paladins" that Dan had, and an rp reason/pretend he had it all along.

Sorry for the bitching, I was all for the new crafting system and do think that will work out great. I just wish we knew the consiquences well before the change. And please don't say 3 minutes before was proper warning time. I was at work when this happened, so I, as of many, did not expect this to happen.

Hopefully in about a week the repairing can be done and items can be replaced ig by craftsmen. Til then I am sure the disappointment of some losses remain.

Nop · Post by **Nop** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:52 pm

Looking at most of these comments I think we could have saved the dev team two hours of discussion on how to do this best and simply deleted all the armours and weapons.

Folks, this was a compromise to give players the best chance to retain some useful stuff. Of course some people are hit harder than others but there was no way to avoid that.

And we had to do something. If you leave all the stockpiles in game with the new crafting system, it would gain insanely in value, ruining the whole idea of a more balanced crafting system. There was one char who had stockpiled 280 helmets!

Giving a warning was out of the question, too. If you give a warning of X days, everybody would complain who did not play for more than X days. As would all people who did play but do not care to read the news or the forums. All the while the powergamers would be busy quickly producing stuff with the old crafting system and selling everything.

And asking people is the worst idea. I bet you anything you like that we would rather die of old age than find a solution that every player agrees on.

So I can just say: This is the best we could think of. If you think you could have done better, you are welcome to volunteer for the dev team and do better the next time.