The Wipe

[Llama]

2) Best armor i meant the highest quality armor

[pharse]

There is no use what could have been done, it´s done, that´s it. What do you people expect here from bitching about this "wipe"? That the staff will undo everything?

Be more stoical and look forward to the betterments in general...

[martin]

2) Best armor i meant the highest quality armor

This is technically extremely difficult to realize.

We have about 180000 armor items on/at the characters, i guess finding out which one is the best of each player would mean that the database is calculating for some days.

Martin

[martin]

That the staff will undo everything?

Oh, just to mention it:
The last backup we have is about 1-2 month old. If we'd decide to undo everything, this would be the state you would all find yourself at.

(however, it's not going to happen anyway)

Martin

[AlexRose]

Gotta love those missing drow blades. They're only uber rare.

[Aegohl]

Short summary in english:

Yes, the update came pretty fast for us as well, because it's not our job to run Illa and therefore we cannot do much planning what will happen when.

I wanted to meet some friends yesterday and all of a sudden we decided to have that update and in the last second I decided to stay for the UD because we needed to change server, client, database and scripts at the same time and my hands were needed.

Of course we knew about the implications of the new crafting system for some time, but we discussed and discussed and were not able to agree what to do. However, the new system HAS to be implemented and something HAD to be done and so, at some point, there comes the second where one has to decide. And we decided (four out of four staffies that were there last night agreed to that), and we just did it.
Economically, it was not really the best decision.
That it will lead to more bitching than just giving everyone 30000000 Silver coins and free weapons was clear, too.

You all don't know all the consequences of this newly introduced system, still you whine around. All you bitch about is one single thing, not seeing the whole picture.
It's like you make a holiday and bitch around about the money you spent and that your bed is much more comfortable, ignoring all the wonderful things about a holiday. You just focus on the -- existing! -- negative aspects and ignore the whole thing. And you ignore the fact that you wouldn't get the good things without paying the price (spending money and sleeping in YOUR bed).

Other games just ban everyone who whines around within 2 weeks after an update. Technical hints and remarks are okay, but bitching will only be allowed 2 weeks after an update, this way people are forced to see the WHOLE thing, not just the bad ones, and can THEN see what they thing is bad. This means: Bitch about your holidays AFTER the holidays -- maybe you're right and they were bad, but maybe it was worth spending the money and not sleeping in your bed. You can't know that in advantage!

Martin

Holidays, Martin? I think you should stick with what you know. Car analogies. =)

Love you, Martin. =)

[martin]

Holidays, Martin? I think you should stick with what you know. Car analogies. =)

I didn't find a good car analogy. Unfortunately. Well, I just found one:
Imagine, ... no.

Love you, Martin. =)

Yeah, let's have babies.

Martin

[Korm Kormsen]

for all those, who understand even less about scripting, than i:

it is easyer, to change all "unfitting" old items to the same amount of something (silver), than to make a whole program, that adapts them to their new equivalent.

i got one char left, who now owns only a hatchet, a saw and two serinjahswords (and some silvers...) - and, so what?

i think, much more important now would be constructive critizism.

forinstance the thing with the saucages.

before we needed one bucket of water, to cook any quantity of sauceages. - and the water wasn't even used up.
now we need one bucket full for one saucage.
i think for a food, that gives about 10% of stilled hunger, one bucket of water for every five or ten produced units should be hard enough.

one bucket -> one saucage will be a fulltime job to stay alive.
some clicks to kill the pig.
one click to pick up the ham
unknown high quantity of food, to fell a tree.
one movement and two shiftclicks to fill water
one movement and two clicks to make fire. (only one of my chars still owns a hatchet)
three clicks to cook sauceage.
if one is no bucket-capitalist, continuous runs to watersource. (thanks to that, only three or four saucages per fire)
during these activities you need one sauceage, to fill up your hungerbar.

i think, the work->product ratio should be a little bit better

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

Hello!

If I had known that all my weapons and armour in my depot would be deleted while the things that I was wearing would remain I would have put on by armour and weapons don't you think?

Yes, I think so.

And those who were NOT logged in would bitch around that it's unfair because YOU knew and THEY didn't, so YOU got a chance that they never had.

Ever thought about that?

Martin

And everyone who was lucky to read the two hour warning or was wearing his amour has an advantage? Ever thought about that? (You reap what you saw! )
So, now back to some more civilized manner. What I meant is that there is a notification about an update which specifies what is about to change and what consequences it has, something like that:

Hello players of Illarion!
On <date> there will be an update which includes the following:
1. All your chars get wiped. Well, just kidding, we have refrained from that.
2. Change in skill system
a) Alchemie will be deleted without compensation.
b) Creation of dye will become part of the tailoring skill.
...
3. We have take some weapons and armours out of the game to restore the balance due to the new creafting system.
a) Weapons and armours worn on body will not be deleted. Please make sure that you wear your best armour and weapons when the update is conducted.
...

Well, I hope that this makes it clear what I had in mind.

With kind regards

[AlexRose]

Oh right, that makes LOADS of sense.

"Hey, we purposely don't want you to keep your equipment because it will be worth stupidly large amounts of money now, so please wear it all!!!111!11!1!!!!"

Quite.

[Arameh]

Stop picking on Martin guys, that wipe I consider was probably pretty harsh and unfair to a lot of people I can imagine, I'd probably have been a bit pissed myself if I still played, considering my character Arameh probably still was one of the character with the most armors and weapons of all kinds and rareness. But well, if Martin thinks that it was necessary, then it probably was. There isnt much to do about it, it happened and we gotta live with it.

[martin]

And everyone who was lucky to read the two hour warning or was wearing his amour has an advantage? Ever thought about that? (You reap what you saw! )

The server was OFFline when I wrote the message, noone was able to do anything.

Martin

[Achae Eanstray]

for all those, who understand even less about scripting, than i:

it is easyer, to change all "unfitting" old items to the same amount of something (silver), than to make a whole program, that adapts them to their new equivalent.

I see, I wasn't aware of this and it would have been nice to know. At least it answers one part of my question, thank you.

[Salathe]

christ, i read this and thought there would be ANOTHER char wipe, my heart sank when i read it.

But... it seems all we lost were weapons and armor? If so, then we should all be greatful =D. As one of the very few players who survived the last char wipe, take my word that this isnt that bad.

[Lance Thunnigan]

Last time I checked, this game was still in Beta.

[Juniper Onyx]

OK, I am breaking my boycott here, but I think It's needed.

I side with Martin here.

The dev's aren't paid. Obviously they argued amongst themselves for weeks getting this all finished, which was probably as frustrating for them as for us.

Maybe it could have been handled better, maybe not. Nobody's perfect and you can't please everyone.

None of that matters.

This is a free game. The devs are volunteers. It's a Beta game that is always under development (Thank God!). It's the ONLY game to my knowledge that allows you to 'change' the map by building and owning property, not even WoW or FFXI can claim that. Ultimately, what's there to complain about?

I haven't logged in with Dusty yet to see the "Millions" of silver he might have, but that doesn't matter either.

I could relearn the crafts easily as several skills of my "Master Craftsman" are yellow. But that doesn't matter either.

I propose a total character wipe.

I think players are too attached to their characters and 'things'. It hampers RP and creates "Uber-characters" which never die. I think the Devs should shake the players up now and then when the game stagnates as it has.

Total character wipe, why not? I vote yes.

[abcfantasy]

No.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

OK, I am breaking my boycott here, but I think It's needed.

I side with Martin here.

The dev's aren't paid. Obviously they argued amongst themselves for weeks getting this all finished, which was probably as frustrating for them as for us.

Maybe it could have been handled better, maybe not. Nobody's perfect and you can't please everyone.

None of that matters.

This is a free game. The devs are volunteers. It's a Beta game that is always under development (Thank God!). It's the ONLY game to my knowledge that allows you to 'change' the map by building and owning property, not even WoW or FFXI can claim that. Ultimately, what's there to complain about?

I haven't logged in with Dusty yet to see the "Millions" of silver he might have, but that doesn't matter either.

I could relearn the crafts easily as several skills of my "Master Craftsman" are yellow. But that doesn't matter either.

I propose a total character wipe.

I think players are too attached to their characters and 'things'. It hampers RP and creates "Uber-characters" which never die. I think the Devs should shake the players up now and then when the game stagnates as it has.

Total character wipe, why not? I vote yes.

If they make sure, that the mages will get runes after the wipe again, I vote for yes, too. I will delete Namfalur anyway, since carpentry now sucks even more then it did before. so.. Please wipe when mages will still be ig and the current apprentices will still be able to learn.

[Ortrud]

[quote="Taeryon]Wieso habt ihr denn auch gleich alles gelöscht?

Haben wir nicht.
Wir haben nur alle Waffen und Ruestungen, die jetzt wesentlich schwerer zu erzeugen und teuerer zu beschaffen sind und die im Depot lagen geloescht, weil wir festgestellt haben, dass es einige Charaktere gibt (gar nicht so wenige), die solches Zeug gebunkert haben, was die Wirtschaft im Spiel komplett ueber den Haufen geworfen haette.

Martin[/quote][/quote]

Hmm..ich habe nicht mal mehr ne Axt zum Bäume fällen.

[Gwendolin Cad'ell]

Well uhm.. admittedly I was kinda shocked when I heard that all armoury and weapons get deleted, but then again I couldn't really get myself to be angry about it. Actually, I think it's kinda funny. Because for some time now the players will be more careful about threats around them. At least it won't be "Ha, I wear this very good silver steel and this magical longsword - I don't have to be afraid of any monsters".
(and off topic: I think dwarves in elven silver steel armour are a joke )

The only thing that kinda made me grumble was, that I'm as fair and let my character Gwendolin never wear her armour when she's not about to go and fight somewhere, but instead wear dresses. And now, welll... no single armour piece for the poor her, anymore. ^^

[martin]

Oh, there might well be changes to carpentry if it turns out to be highly stupid!

Martin

[Taeryon Silverlight]

Oh, there might well be changes to carpentry if it turns out to be highly stupid!

Martin

It allready did.

[Salathe]

OK, I am breaking my boycott here, but I think It's needed.

I side with Martin here.

The dev's aren't paid. Obviously they argued amongst themselves for weeks getting this all finished, which was probably as frustrating for them as for us.

Maybe it could have been handled better, maybe not. Nobody's perfect and you can't please everyone.

None of that matters.

This is a free game. The devs are volunteers. It's a Beta game that is always under development (Thank God!). It's the ONLY game to my knowledge that allows you to 'change' the map by building and owning property, not even WoW or FFXI can claim that. Ultimately, what's there to complain about?

I haven't logged in with Dusty yet to see the "Millions" of silver he might have, but that doesn't matter either.

I could relearn the crafts easily as several skills of my "Master Craftsman" are yellow. But that doesn't matter either.

I propose a total character wipe.

I think players are too attached to their characters and 'things'. It hampers RP and creates "Uber-characters" which never die. I think the Devs should shake the players up now and then when the game stagnates as it has.

Total character wipe, why not? I vote yes.

because after last wipe, a large number of well liked people left. And there honestly doesnt seem like that much of a reason to do it this time. At the last wipe their was a large list of HUGE changes coming to the game, that was the reason for the last one. There was a BRAND new map, about 100 new items, a BRAND new fighting system,which was COMPLETELY different that the last, a Completely new mage fighting system, a completely new way to approach crafting, and a new economy system.

If there were to be a wipe it would be completely uncalled for because these changes arent that drastic

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

Hello!

I'm not picking on Martin or any of the admins. All I wanted to state is that I think it is far better to announce the changes way before the update happens, nothing more nothing less. It's all about communication you know...
The admins removed the weapons in the depots to restore some balance but still some players have advantage over other due to pure luck. That was the argue I had with Martin.

With kind regards

[abcfantasy]

Exactly! Agreed with Magdha.

Oh, and were hatchets meant to be removed aswell? I was so excited to try and chopping a tree or something, but I think my char raised the hatchet and flew away aswell.

[Juniper Onyx]

Actually it makes sense that hatchets disappear too, because they are really 'axes' and are probably coded that way. Just buy a new one. I heard Timo sells them.

[martin]

I pointed out several times now why we were not ABLE to announce it in advance.

Did you understand my arguments?

Martin

[Pellandria]

People seriously, even when I don't make friends now SH** THE F*** UP, what done is done and even if I was angry yesterday, I understand the devs.
Just sligthly irritated that there are so much bugs, but its just a game, come down from your horse and help the staff or make a own game, pay the work, then you can bitch, otherwise stop bithcing..thank you.

[Aegohl]

Honestly, even if they had the opportunity to warn in advance, that would have it's share of consequences as well. I'm sure a good lot of you would drop your rp to rape NPC's night and day until you can get rid of your items that will be dissapearing. *That* would work wonders for the economy, I'm sure...

[martin]

Furthermore, noone asked for an RP-reasoning for THAT! I mean, seriously, what reason could there be that you know IN ADVANCE that items will be deleted?

Martin