The Wipe
Moderator: Gamemasters
mm.... not trying to be rude.... but if you want to be more frustrated... don't bring other people along as well... might just delete your chars...Lahela wrote:Then do it again and make the frustration complete.Vilarion wrote:We already wiped the chars once, there was no decline, just a slight change of players. It would be no problem.
Ja, das UD kam ziemlich schnell, was daran liegt, dass wir das hier alle nicht beruflich machen und deshalb nicht wirklich gut planen koennen, was wann genau wie passieren wird.
Ich fuer meinen Teil hatte eigentlich gestern Abend vor, mich mit ein paar Freunden gemuetlich in einem Pub zu treffen, und hab praktisch im Moment des Weggehens entschieden, dass ich wegen des UD bleiben muss, weil wir eben zufaellig gestern einen Termin gefunden haben, wo alle notwendig Beteiligten (denkt daran, es musste Server, Client, Datenbank UND Skripte zur selben Zeit umgestellt werden!) Zeit hatten.
Die Implikationen des neuen HWS waren uns natuerlich schon laenger klar, aber wie ihr seht, wir haben diskutiert und diskutiert, wie man das am besten loesen kann, und man kann sie NIE auf was einigen, und irgendwann ist die Sekunde gekommen, wo eine Entscheidung fallen muss. Letztendlich wurde diese Entscheidung von 4 der 4 anwesenden Staffies fuer den besten Kompromiss gehalten und durchgefuehrt.
Wirtschaftlich war es nicht die sinnvollste.
Dass es mehr Geheule hervorruft als wenn wir einfach allen 20000 Silberstuecke und gratis Ruestungen gegeben haetten, war auch klar.
Ihr kennt die Auswirkungen des gesamten neuen Systems noch gar nicht, betrachtet doch das Gesamtbild, nicht nur einen getrennten Sonderteil. Ihr heult ueber etwas herum, das ihr noch gar nicht angeschaut habt, ihr betrachtet nur einen Miniausschnitt, der euch nicht gefaellt. Es ist, alsob ihr auf Urlaub fliegt, und euch nur drueber aufregt, dass euer Bett immer so bequem war und dabei ignoriert, dass es im Urlaubsort mehr als nur die Betten gibt, und dass man natuerlich die Schoenheiten eines Urlaubs um einen gewissen Preis kauft: Man muss Geld ausgeben, das einem dann nicht mehr fuer Eislutscher zur Verfuegung steht und man kann nicht im eigenen Bett schlafen. Fuer sich betrachtet (kein Eis, fremdes Bett) ist das scheisse, als Gesamtpaket (netter Urlaubsort, schoenes Meer, tolle Leute, super Kulisse, ...) ist es aber toll.
Andere Spiele machens uebrigens so:
Wer innerhalb von 2 Wochen nach einer Aenderung ueber diese Heult, wird fuer ein Monat gebannt. Technische Hinweise sind okay, Heulerei gibts erst nach der 2-Wochen-Frist.
Will noch jemand Heulen?
Martin
Ich fuer meinen Teil hatte eigentlich gestern Abend vor, mich mit ein paar Freunden gemuetlich in einem Pub zu treffen, und hab praktisch im Moment des Weggehens entschieden, dass ich wegen des UD bleiben muss, weil wir eben zufaellig gestern einen Termin gefunden haben, wo alle notwendig Beteiligten (denkt daran, es musste Server, Client, Datenbank UND Skripte zur selben Zeit umgestellt werden!) Zeit hatten.
Die Implikationen des neuen HWS waren uns natuerlich schon laenger klar, aber wie ihr seht, wir haben diskutiert und diskutiert, wie man das am besten loesen kann, und man kann sie NIE auf was einigen, und irgendwann ist die Sekunde gekommen, wo eine Entscheidung fallen muss. Letztendlich wurde diese Entscheidung von 4 der 4 anwesenden Staffies fuer den besten Kompromiss gehalten und durchgefuehrt.
Wirtschaftlich war es nicht die sinnvollste.
Dass es mehr Geheule hervorruft als wenn wir einfach allen 20000 Silberstuecke und gratis Ruestungen gegeben haetten, war auch klar.
Ihr kennt die Auswirkungen des gesamten neuen Systems noch gar nicht, betrachtet doch das Gesamtbild, nicht nur einen getrennten Sonderteil. Ihr heult ueber etwas herum, das ihr noch gar nicht angeschaut habt, ihr betrachtet nur einen Miniausschnitt, der euch nicht gefaellt. Es ist, alsob ihr auf Urlaub fliegt, und euch nur drueber aufregt, dass euer Bett immer so bequem war und dabei ignoriert, dass es im Urlaubsort mehr als nur die Betten gibt, und dass man natuerlich die Schoenheiten eines Urlaubs um einen gewissen Preis kauft: Man muss Geld ausgeben, das einem dann nicht mehr fuer Eislutscher zur Verfuegung steht und man kann nicht im eigenen Bett schlafen. Fuer sich betrachtet (kein Eis, fremdes Bett) ist das scheisse, als Gesamtpaket (netter Urlaubsort, schoenes Meer, tolle Leute, super Kulisse, ...) ist es aber toll.
Andere Spiele machens uebrigens so:
Wer innerhalb von 2 Wochen nach einer Aenderung ueber diese Heult, wird fuer ein Monat gebannt. Technische Hinweise sind okay, Heulerei gibts erst nach der 2-Wochen-Frist.
Will noch jemand Heulen?
Martin
Last edited by martin on Wed May 09, 2007 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Magdha Tiefenerz
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:11 pm
- Location: Kupferberge - Copper Mountains
Hello admins!
Well, I have to admit that after reading all the feedback about the server update, I'm a little bit afraid to enter the game and to see the changes myself.
I think the problem is not that you have deleted some weapons and armours. You may have had your reasons, be it technical or other. Even a complete wipe of all characters could have been done. But (and this is a big "but") you should have informed the players about the consequences before releasing the update. All I have read about the new update was some information about some changes to the skill system, e.g. removing of the alchemie skill.
I do not consider it the best way to let the players find out for themself all the changes, especially if it is to their disadvantage.
With kind regards
Well, I have to admit that after reading all the feedback about the server update, I'm a little bit afraid to enter the game and to see the changes myself.
I think the problem is not that you have deleted some weapons and armours. You may have had your reasons, be it technical or other. Even a complete wipe of all characters could have been done. But (and this is a big "but") you should have informed the players about the consequences before releasing the update. All I have read about the new update was some information about some changes to the skill system, e.g. removing of the alchemie skill.
I do not consider it the best way to let the players find out for themself all the changes, especially if it is to their disadvantage.
With kind regards
Last edited by Magdha Tiefenerz on Wed May 09, 2007 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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abcfantasy
- Posts: 1799
- Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:44 pm
- Location: Yes.
- Contact:
Short summary in english:
Yes, the update came pretty fast for us as well, because it's not our job to run Illa and therefore we cannot do much planning what will happen when.
I wanted to meet some friends yesterday and all of a sudden we decided to have that update and in the last second I decided to stay for the UD because we needed to change server, client, database and scripts at the same time and my hands were needed.
Of course we knew about the implications of the new crafting system for some time, but we discussed and discussed and were not able to agree what to do. However, the new system HAS to be implemented and something HAD to be done and so, at some point, there comes the second where one has to decide. And we decided (four out of four staffies that were there last night agreed to that), and we just did it.
Economically, it was not really the best decision.
That it will lead to more bitching than just giving everyone 30000000 Silver coins and free weapons was clear, too.
You all don't know all the consequences of this newly introduced system, still you whine around. All you bitch about is one single thing, not seeing the whole picture.
It's like you make a holiday and bitch around about the money you spent and that your bed is much more comfortable, ignoring all the wonderful things about a holiday. You just focus on the -- existing! -- negative aspects and ignore the whole thing. And you ignore the fact that you wouldn't get the good things without paying the price (spending money and sleeping in YOUR bed).
Other games just ban everyone who whines around within 2 weeks after an update. Technical hints and remarks are okay, but bitching will only be allowed 2 weeks after an update, this way people are forced to see the WHOLE thing, not just the bad ones, and can THEN see what they thing is bad. This means: Bitch about your holidays AFTER the holidays -- maybe you're right and they were bad, but maybe it was worth spending the money and not sleeping in your bed. You can't know that in advantage!
Martin
Yes, the update came pretty fast for us as well, because it's not our job to run Illa and therefore we cannot do much planning what will happen when.
I wanted to meet some friends yesterday and all of a sudden we decided to have that update and in the last second I decided to stay for the UD because we needed to change server, client, database and scripts at the same time and my hands were needed.
Of course we knew about the implications of the new crafting system for some time, but we discussed and discussed and were not able to agree what to do. However, the new system HAS to be implemented and something HAD to be done and so, at some point, there comes the second where one has to decide. And we decided (four out of four staffies that were there last night agreed to that), and we just did it.
Economically, it was not really the best decision.
That it will lead to more bitching than just giving everyone 30000000 Silver coins and free weapons was clear, too.
You all don't know all the consequences of this newly introduced system, still you whine around. All you bitch about is one single thing, not seeing the whole picture.
It's like you make a holiday and bitch around about the money you spent and that your bed is much more comfortable, ignoring all the wonderful things about a holiday. You just focus on the -- existing! -- negative aspects and ignore the whole thing. And you ignore the fact that you wouldn't get the good things without paying the price (spending money and sleeping in YOUR bed).
Other games just ban everyone who whines around within 2 weeks after an update. Technical hints and remarks are okay, but bitching will only be allowed 2 weeks after an update, this way people are forced to see the WHOLE thing, not just the bad ones, and can THEN see what they thing is bad. This means: Bitch about your holidays AFTER the holidays -- maybe you're right and they were bad, but maybe it was worth spending the money and not sleeping in your bed. You can't know that in advantage!
Martin
the changes so far would be almost all armors and weapons in depot turned into a silver coin...
armors and weapons that's not worn get reduced in quality, those that are equipped stays...
the update of the new crafting will make items somewhat less since it takes quite long to make and more materials needed. So less items in game, prices of items will go up... well at least those what i think will happen... Learning for a skill.... stays the same.... since for every material used you get the experience....
the only thing that's kind of mm.. bad is probably cooking... not so sure yet since i haven't try it. But edible items which means it will be gone rather fast, should be rather easy to be make... From reading the posts on some other thread.... seems like when we cook... we will be getting hungry more than we can cook... I know it's not balanced yet... but probably better to tell it beforehand... Basically cooking is rather hard to start and learn even further now.
not sure what else changes for now
armors and weapons that's not worn get reduced in quality, those that are equipped stays...
the update of the new crafting will make items somewhat less since it takes quite long to make and more materials needed. So less items in game, prices of items will go up... well at least those what i think will happen... Learning for a skill.... stays the same.... since for every material used you get the experience....
the only thing that's kind of mm.. bad is probably cooking... not so sure yet since i haven't try it. But edible items which means it will be gone rather fast, should be rather easy to be make... From reading the posts on some other thread.... seems like when we cook... we will be getting hungry more than we can cook... I know it's not balanced yet... but probably better to tell it beforehand... Basically cooking is rather hard to start and learn even further now.
not sure what else changes for now
I received a mailing list newsletter from illarion.abcfantasy wrote:I doubt that was written even an hour before the server was down..
Actually, that was written 'after' the wipe...was it?
I thought warnings came before the actualy happening.
This happened after martin announced that the server was down because of the hardware problem.
Bit too late eh?
As if I could make the dev's do a complete charwipe.ogerawa wrote:mm.... not trying to be rude.... but if you want to be more frustrated... don't bring other people along as well... might just delete your chars...Lahela wrote:Then do it again and make the frustration complete.Vilarion wrote:We already wiped the chars once, there was no decline, just a slight change of players. It would be no problem.
Last edited by Lahela on Wed May 09, 2007 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Magdha Tiefenerz
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:11 pm
- Location: Kupferberge - Copper Mountains
Hello!
I was logged in yesterday up to 21:30 o'clock. If I had known that all my weapons and armour in my depot would be deleted while the things that I was wearing would remain I would have put on by armour and weapons don't you think?
With kind regards
Well, I have written "before" on purpose and had more than a couple of hours in mind.martin wrote:This is why we introduced that news section on our homepage lately. Some years ago, that is.
Martin
I was logged in yesterday up to 21:30 o'clock. If I had known that all my weapons and armour in my depot would be deleted while the things that I was wearing would remain I would have put on by armour and weapons don't you think?
With kind regards
Look
I understand that it was necessary. A new and improved crafting system would be stupid if for example staff X would be worth a lot, and you have tons of those when it was easy to do.
But ASSUMING that the armor a person wants is the one he's wearing at that moment, is a BAD assumption.
Personally, if i had a mega expensive armor i'd only wear it on special occasions, I wouldn't even carry it around with me, just incase I die and lose it...
I understand that it was necessary. A new and improved crafting system would be stupid if for example staff X would be worth a lot, and you have tons of those when it was easy to do.
But ASSUMING that the armor a person wants is the one he's wearing at that moment, is a BAD assumption.
Personally, if i had a mega expensive armor i'd only wear it on special occasions, I wouldn't even carry it around with me, just incase I die and lose it...
The newsletter was sent automatically in the second when I wrote the news, so you can go and compare posting times, news times and so on and afterwards come back and tell us what happened when. Because as you posted it now, this could be interpreted as not true.Hadrian_Abela wrote:I received a mailing list newsletter from illarion.
This happened after martin announced that the server was down because of the hardware problem.
Bit too late eh?
Martin
Yes, I think so.Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:If I had known that all my weapons and armour in my depot would be deleted while the things that I was wearing would remain I would have put on by armour and weapons don't you think?
And those who were NOT logged in would bitch around that it's unfair because YOU knew and THEY didn't, so YOU got a chance that they never had.
Ever thought about that?
Martin
Triple post. Thisboard has an edit function. You can find it on the top right of your post btw
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TTwgNhX4BSo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TTwgNhX4BSo
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abcfantasy
- Posts: 1799
- Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:44 pm
- Location: Yes.
- Contact:
Maybe warning a few days before would have been better?
Or else, remove those that people were wearing aswell.
But the current way, there is an extent of unfairness. The few that had their best armors on them have a big headstart.
Warriors with nothing to fight with will find it hard to even get some money.
Or else, remove those that people were wearing aswell.
But the current way, there is an extent of unfairness. The few that had their best armors on them have a big headstart.
Warriors with nothing to fight with will find it hard to even get some money.
Received: from illarion.inso.tuwien.ac.at ([(IP REMOVED)]) by (addressremoved).bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Wed, 9 May 2007 03:00:35 -0700martin wrote:The newsletter was sent automatically in the second when I wrote the news, so you can go and compare posting times, news times and so on and afterwards come back and tell us what happened when. Because as you posted it now, this could be interpreted as not true.Hadrian_Abela wrote:I received a mailing list newsletter from illarion.
This happened after martin announced that the server was down because of the hardware problem.
Bit too late eh?
Martin
Received: from illarion.inso.tuwien.ac.at (localhost [(IP REMOVED))by illarion.inso.tuwien.ac.at (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E489D7D07;Wed, 9 May 2007 12:00:31 +0200 (CEST)
Sender: news-bounces@illarion.inso.tuwien.ac.at
I replied to three different postings, meaning that I wrote three different postings.Lahela wrote:Triple post. Thisboard has an edit function. You can find it on the top right of your post btw
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TTwgNhX4BSo
Martin
Dear everyone.martin wrote:Okay, then just let us know, oh wise Hadrian, what you would have done in our place.Hadrian_Abela wrote:Look
I understand that it was necessary.(...)
We didn't asume what you imply we assumed, namely that you always wear your best armor.
Martin
We are planning to delete all weapons and armor in your depot. Please wear any armor and weapons you intend on keeping from between times {bla to bla}
thank you and sorry for the inconvience
"the 'wise' Hadrian|
Okay, since you didn't understand, I'll point that one out in detail once again:abcfantasy wrote:Maybe warning a few days before would have been better?
If we did that, this would have meant that we have to update in several days. However, Illarion is not our job and it's difficult to find a date when we all have time (since we need several techies because we need to update server, client, scripts and database at the same time). Yesterday was such a rare occasion and it came rather surprisingly, and everything was decided fast. Because it's not our job, we don't get paid, we don't have regular working times for illarion and so on. There was no CHANCE to know that in advance, and to tell you the truth, the decision what to do was made minutes before everything happened.
Go any pay us and we make it that way next time. As long as we do everything for free, shut the smile up. Thank you.
We agreed that people would whine much more if we did that.Or else, remove those that people were wearing aswell.
Shut up, you wrote that several times already.But the current way, there is an extent of unfairness. The few that had their best armors on them have a big headstart.
Go send yourself an e-mail.
Martin
*Players who have taken a short break or simply couldn't be on the computer in time to see the message log in, find out that they have lost some valuable weapons and/or armor, while everyone else still has theirs*Hadrian_Abela wrote:
Dear everyone.
We are planning to delete all weapons and armor in your depot. Please wear any armor and weapons you intend on keeping from between times {bla to bla}
thank you and sorry for the inconvience
"the 'wise' Hadrian|
This would have meant to delay the update to an unknown time when we all have time to do all the necessary updates at once, dear wise Hadrian.Hadrian_Abela wrote:Dear everyone.
We are planning to delete all weapons and armor in your depot. Please wear any armor and weapons you intend on keeping from between times {bla to bla}
thank you and sorry for the inconvience
"the 'wise' Hadrian|
And furthermore, if we would have posted that just, say, 2 hours in advance, people would bitch around for not being online yesterday and therefore having had no chance to put their armor on.
See? Narmir found out herself (or read my posting, well, whatever), "wise" Hadrian didn't.
Not so wise, next try please.
Martin
Which would be a significantly less percentage then the people who don't wear their best armor on a day to day basis...*Players who have taken a short break or simply couldn't be on the computer in time to see the message log in, find out that they have lost some valuable weapons and/or armor, while everyone else still has theirs*
ADDED for martin:
You could have done the wipe after, or instead saved the best item present (is this possible?) of each type
Auch wenn ich mir hier jetzt Buuh-Rufe von euch anhören muss, aber ich finde dies war eine hervorragende Lösung! Ist nicht ironisch oder sonstwie gemeint, sondern meine ehrliche Meinung!
Was habt ihr denn nun großartig verloren...eure schönsten Rüstungen und Waffen...NA UND! Was soll das Gejammer? Ich habe auchne Rüstung und verschiedene Waffen nur noch in Silberstücke vorgefunden...pfff draufgesch...en!
Die erfahrenen Spieler unter euch werden schneller an das Zeug kommen als irgendwer sonst...lasst mal ein bisschen eure Kontakte spielen und schon habt ihr wieder alles zusammen!
Handelt, feilscht, kämpft und produziert wieder.....so wie ihr es als Anfänger auch getan habt! Zurück zu euren Ursprüngen! Und was die ganzen Aufträge und Versprechungen zu irgendwelchen Gegenständen betrifft so haben eure Kunden sicher Verständnis für eure Lieferschwierigkeiten! Ihr habt schließlich immer noch eure individuellen Fähigkeiten und Fertigkeiten beibehalten, also macht was draus!
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Eine Ingame-Erklärung hat mir von einem Vorredner besonders gefallen:
"Viele Spieler wünschten sich mehr Silber und Gold und die Götter machten sich halt einen Spaß draus, alle Waffen in Geldmittel umzutauschen!"
Für meinen Charakter ist die Sache klar...sei vorsichtig mit deinen Wünschen die du an die Götter richtest!
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Und die Sache mit dem Vorwarnen und rechtzeitigem Informieren...das hätten doch sowieso nur die aktiven Forenteilnehmer mitbekommen...schnell noch die besten Waffen und Rüstungen angelegt...letzte Verkäufe getätigt und schon hätten diese einen Riesenvorsprung vor allen anderen gehabt! Der Rest wäre nicht so vorbereitet gewesen!
Ich persönlich habe es erst 10 Minuten vor Servershutdown mitbekommen, dass es ein Update gibt!
DAUMEN HOCH UND EIN DANKESCHÖN an das Staff-Team für diese faire Lösung und für eure Arbeit...weiter so
In mir habt ihr schon euren ersten Fan gefunden
PS: Kann es leider nicht in englisch verfassen, da meine lingualen Fähigkeiten in der neuen Sprache nur begrenzt dazu taugen! Ausser:
Well done staff-team
Was habt ihr denn nun großartig verloren...eure schönsten Rüstungen und Waffen...NA UND! Was soll das Gejammer? Ich habe auchne Rüstung und verschiedene Waffen nur noch in Silberstücke vorgefunden...pfff draufgesch...en!
Die erfahrenen Spieler unter euch werden schneller an das Zeug kommen als irgendwer sonst...lasst mal ein bisschen eure Kontakte spielen und schon habt ihr wieder alles zusammen!
Handelt, feilscht, kämpft und produziert wieder.....so wie ihr es als Anfänger auch getan habt! Zurück zu euren Ursprüngen! Und was die ganzen Aufträge und Versprechungen zu irgendwelchen Gegenständen betrifft so haben eure Kunden sicher Verständnis für eure Lieferschwierigkeiten! Ihr habt schließlich immer noch eure individuellen Fähigkeiten und Fertigkeiten beibehalten, also macht was draus!
----------
Eine Ingame-Erklärung hat mir von einem Vorredner besonders gefallen:
"Viele Spieler wünschten sich mehr Silber und Gold und die Götter machten sich halt einen Spaß draus, alle Waffen in Geldmittel umzutauschen!"
Für meinen Charakter ist die Sache klar...sei vorsichtig mit deinen Wünschen die du an die Götter richtest!
----------
Und die Sache mit dem Vorwarnen und rechtzeitigem Informieren...das hätten doch sowieso nur die aktiven Forenteilnehmer mitbekommen...schnell noch die besten Waffen und Rüstungen angelegt...letzte Verkäufe getätigt und schon hätten diese einen Riesenvorsprung vor allen anderen gehabt! Der Rest wäre nicht so vorbereitet gewesen!
Ich persönlich habe es erst 10 Minuten vor Servershutdown mitbekommen, dass es ein Update gibt!
DAUMEN HOCH UND EIN DANKESCHÖN an das Staff-Team für diese faire Lösung und für eure Arbeit...weiter so
In mir habt ihr schon euren ersten Fan gefunden
PS: Kann es leider nicht in englisch verfassen, da meine lingualen Fähigkeiten in der neuen Sprache nur begrenzt dazu taugen! Ausser:
Well done staff-team
1) Wipe after everyone produced with the new system? LOLHadrian_Abela wrote:You could have done the wipe after, or instead saved the best item present (is this possible?) of each type
("Hey, I just spent one week making that armor and now it's gone!")
2) No, that's not possible; how should we decide what is the best armor? And how should we look through 50000 characters to find them?
Martin
Perhaps so Hadrian, but wouldn't you still be displeased if you were one of those in the significantly less percentage?
People will complain no matter what, this is inevitable, but at the end of the day, it's not our decision, it's the decision of those who give up their free time to provide what i'm sure will turn out to be a very neat update for us (I haven't had the chance to explore everything yet). Also, it's just a game
I wasn't pleased either when I logged in yesterday to find my nice elven swords and several other items turned into silver coins, but I got over it. Free money
People will complain no matter what, this is inevitable, but at the end of the day, it's not our decision, it's the decision of those who give up their free time to provide what i'm sure will turn out to be a very neat update for us (I haven't had the chance to explore everything yet). Also, it's just a game
I wasn't pleased either when I logged in yesterday to find my nice elven swords and several other items turned into silver coins, but I got over it. Free money