Yes, and many people loose their shirts over night.
But, tell me, how long do these people have to study economics and the stock market before they get rich? And where do they get the money to invest in the first place?
Coalition for the Change of Skill Levels (CCSL)
Moderator: Gamemasters
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Caranthir the great
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And how long has this modern kind of stock-market existed? From the 19th century? I thought that this was supposed to be a medieval roleplaying game, not 'Industrialization era' game.
Alright, Paul does however have some point, since even before medieval times the merchants did invest into ships that would sail overseas to trade, and bring profit back to the merchant. (Suggesting that it didn't sink)
This could be roleplayed, but on the current tiny map without any oversea places, or other towns to form a caravan to, that seems a bit difficult.
Also Serpadun has point Paul, especially when sending a ship on risky journey. You could lose everything. And you would still have to work for the money you would want to invest in the first place.. Unless you would have rich mother and father
Alright, Paul does however have some point, since even before medieval times the merchants did invest into ships that would sail overseas to trade, and bring profit back to the merchant. (Suggesting that it didn't sink)
This could be roleplayed, but on the current tiny map without any oversea places, or other towns to form a caravan to, that seems a bit difficult.
Also Serpadun has point Paul, especially when sending a ship on risky journey. You could lose everything. And you would still have to work for the money you would want to invest in the first place.. Unless you would have rich mother and father
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Caranthir the great
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Ok, I ve been reading this topic for about 1 hour, and there was ONE posting that sounded interessting to me
(Bror, you maybe overread it)
Fieps wrote (on page 3 )At the beginning everyone receives the possibility to select a certain number of skills. 3 Craftmanship Skills, 2 Weapon Skills, 6 Druid or Magic Skills and so one.
These skills are forever mastered, no matter how often i die i remain master in all skills which i chose at the beginning.
I don t agree in everything, but you should be able to chose one profession like smith, carpenter,fighter,mage,druid,...
This profession should work with the old skill system. A fighter for example should be able to chose 2 combat abilities, for example slashing and parry. A craftman, a smith for example should be able to "chose" mining and blacksmithing...
Mages could chose 4 runes, druids 2 potions
Those chosen skills should work with the old system and , every other skill should work with the new one, so you would also have to specialize and, in my view, it would improve the roleplaying. I dont know if something like that is already planned, if yes WHEN WILL IT COME? (about? )
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"Nach Golde drängt
Am Golde hängt
Doch alles
Ach wir Armen!"
Johann W. Goethe
~Berengar~
(Bror, you maybe overread it)
Fieps wrote (on page 3
)At the beginning everyone receives the possibility to select a certain number of skills. 3 Craftmanship Skills, 2 Weapon Skills, 6 Druid or Magic Skills and so one. These skills are forever mastered, no matter how often i die i remain master in all skills which i chose at the beginning.
I don t agree in everything, but you should be able to chose one profession like smith, carpenter,fighter,mage,druid,...
This profession should work with the old skill system. A fighter for example should be able to chose 2 combat abilities, for example slashing and parry. A craftman, a smith for example should be able to "chose" mining and blacksmithing...
Mages could chose 4 runes, druids 2 potions
Those chosen skills should work with the old system and , every other skill should work with the new one, so you would also have to specialize and, in my view, it would improve the roleplaying. I dont know if something like that is already planned, if yes WHEN WILL IT COME? (about?
)-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Nach Golde drängt
Am Golde hängt
Doch alles
Ach wir Armen!"
Johann W. Goethe
~Berengar~
I haven't overread it. I simply took it for a joke.Berengar wrote:there was ONE posting that sounded interessting to me :wink:
(Bror, you maybe overread it)
Fieps wrote (on page 3 :wink: )At the beginning everyone receives the possibility to select a certain number of skills. 3 Craftmanship Skills, 2 Weapon Skills, 6 Druid or Magic Skills and so one.
These skills are forever mastered, no matter how often i die i remain master in all skills which i chose at the beginning.
I have 25 years of (RL-)Education after me and I can't say that I have mastered ANY skill. I think this will also be true for me in 60 years.
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Caranthir the great
- Posts: 1476
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Or then you are just a slow learner, Bror?
But you can't really compare Illarion and Real life on that way, since a Character is online at it's best, perhaps two full days in week.
In real life, people tend to function 24/7, or at least I have never heard someone who'd log out while he was sleeping to eat some pizza or something.
Well, that is if you don't think death as the final logout.
But you can't really compare Illarion and Real life on that way, since a Character is online at it's best, perhaps two full days in week.
In real life, people tend to function 24/7, or at least I have never heard someone who'd log out while he was sleeping to eat some pizza or something.
Well, that is if you don't think death as the final logout.
(Und wiedermal aus dem Zusammenhang gerissen...aber niedermachen tut ihr wohl alle gern)
I wrote:" Fieps wrote (on page 3)
At the beginning everyone receives the possibility to select a certain number of skills. 3 Craftmanship Skills, 2 Weapon Skills, 6 Druid or Magic Skills and so one.
These skills are forever mastered, no matter how often i die i remain master in all skills which i chose at the beginning.
[...] I don t agree on everything[...]
The "These skills are forever mastered, no matter how often i die i remain master in all skills which i chose at the beginning" is a point, I dont agree on! I said, the system Fieps talked about isnt bad in general. Afterwards I made some changes. I VE NEVER SAID, YOU SHOULD START AS A MASTER AND STAY IT FOREVER!
Just said, that the profession you chosed should work with the old skill system,and you should only be able to 1 profession (=2 skills, for example mining and smithing) so you can only be really good in one thing. I thought that was a profession system, that doesnt causes too much work.
~Berengar~
I wrote:" Fieps wrote (on page 3)
At the beginning everyone receives the possibility to select a certain number of skills. 3 Craftmanship Skills, 2 Weapon Skills, 6 Druid or Magic Skills and so one.
These skills are forever mastered, no matter how often i die i remain master in all skills which i chose at the beginning.
[...] I don t agree on everything[...]
The "These skills are forever mastered, no matter how often i die i remain master in all skills which i chose at the beginning" is a point, I dont agree on! I said, the system Fieps talked about isnt bad in general. Afterwards I made some changes. I VE NEVER SAID, YOU SHOULD START AS A MASTER AND STAY IT FOREVER!
Just said, that the profession you chosed should work with the old skill system,and you should only be able to 1 profession (=2 skills, for example mining and smithing) so you can only be really good in one thing. I thought that was a profession system, that doesnt causes too much work.
~Berengar~
Does this change anything on my statement?Caranthir the great wrote:But you can't really compare Illarion and Real life on that way, since a Character is online at it's best, perhaps two full days in week.
In real life, people tend to function 24/7
If you play Illarion only for 2 hours per day you learn
- less
- more
- equal?
Anyway, the Illarion life as you play it, be it 2 or 8 hours per day are supposed to be a full life, so in my opinion you learn as much as in real life.
Yes, I revived it, and I m reviving it ones again, because I think, there should be a fair discussion, not only "Paul, you ididot, if you don t like it, you re just a bad roleplayer, or a powerplayer."
As I said before, i studied this posting for about one our, and nobody listened to the others, (yes I know, moyave said this before).There wasn t any constructive suggestion, your ironic suggestion, Fieps, was the only suggestion anyway. Everybody said "Paul, you re an idiot, stop complaining".
By the way, I also think, that some people see the game a bit too realistic. Say what you want, but it IS a game, and its not RL, so in my opinion every comparisions to RL are just stupid. A lot of people try to make it more realistic, thats ok, but I think fun is more important than realism. I think, a game should always make fun, because thats the reason you play it for.
I started the game because you didnt need to spend ages in front of your PC to raise your skills, so there is also time for other things. I admit, maybe it is a bit too easy, but think, that you need a certain amount of skills for good roleplay. Okay, you can play a bard without skills, but if you want to play a brave knight, an old mage, a dwarfen smith...
I like this game, because you also have time for roleplay, and real roleplay is always a challenge.On the main page you critisize games like runescape or tibia, but now it is much more like these games. I quit tibia, because it was frustrating, and now Illarion is also frustrating.
So call me powerplayer, call me bad roleplayer, make me down, but let there be a final, fair discussion about the 10x harder "improvement", and don t just insist on your opinion. I think we need a compromise.
~Berengar~
As I said before, i studied this posting for about one our, and nobody listened to the others, (yes I know, moyave said this before).There wasn t any constructive suggestion, your ironic suggestion, Fieps, was the only suggestion anyway. Everybody said "Paul, you re an idiot, stop complaining".
By the way, I also think, that some people see the game a bit too realistic. Say what you want, but it IS a game, and its not RL, so in my opinion every comparisions to RL are just stupid. A lot of people try to make it more realistic, thats ok, but I think fun is more important than realism. I think, a game should always make fun, because thats the reason you play it for.
I started the game because you didnt need to spend ages in front of your PC to raise your skills, so there is also time for other things. I admit, maybe it is a bit too easy, but think, that you need a certain amount of skills for good roleplay. Okay, you can play a bard without skills, but if you want to play a brave knight, an old mage, a dwarfen smith...
I like this game, because you also have time for roleplay, and real roleplay is always a challenge.On the main page you critisize games like runescape or tibia, but now it is much more like these games. I quit tibia, because it was frustrating, and now Illarion is also frustrating.
So call me powerplayer, call me bad roleplayer, make me down, but let there be a final, fair discussion about the 10x harder "improvement", and don t just insist on your opinion. I think we need a compromise.
~Berengar~
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Loki Feuerhaar
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 9:20 pm
- Location: Trolls Bane
I still see not any valid reason for me, why i should support this request.
Again, someone is claiming, "I need skills to perfom my 'roleplay'"
Why is this mage that old ? Because he studied all his life in dark libraries to gain the knowleage he needs to perfom his magic. But you want a "born mage" ?
.... i can continue that all night long.
Once again: "Learning needs time, much patience and some practice" Why do you want to skip 2/3 of the whole procedure?
And again, i compare to real life:
You are about to be born, a higher beeing asks you:
"You can be born as a child, not able to do the simplst things on your own. Or i can send you in the body of a old man, you know almost everything of living, but you will die soon. What do you choose?"
(Well .... thats not realy "real" Life. But its funny, isnt it?)
Have fun,
yours
Loki
Again, someone is claiming, "I need skills to perfom my 'roleplay'"
Why is this Knight that brave ? Because he fought so many monsters to become better! But you want to fight only some Monsters to acive the goal of your "Knight"...but if you want to play a brave knight, an old mage, a dwarfen smith...
Why is this mage that old ? Because he studied all his life in dark libraries to gain the knowleage he needs to perfom his magic. But you want a "born mage" ?
.... i can continue that all night long.
Once again: "Learning needs time, much patience and some practice" Why do you want to skip 2/3 of the whole procedure?
And again, i compare to real life:
You are about to be born, a higher beeing asks you:
"You can be born as a child, not able to do the simplst things on your own. Or i can send you in the body of a old man, you know almost everything of living, but you will die soon. What do you choose?"
(Well .... thats not realy "real" Life. But its funny, isnt it?)
Have fun,
yours
Loki
I think the main problem with it is people see 'full skill' as 'average skill'. So they feel as if it's difficult to get 'average skill'. Keep in mind, being able to smith plate armor or fight demons is like being able to run in the olympic 100 metre dash. It takes a long time to become that skilled, an no one just shows up with that amount of skill. As for the 'old' players being more powerful, one must remember "there is always someone a bit better then you'.
One thing that makes people feel it takes too long, is the psychological factor from lack of percieved progress. It seems they are stuck forever on the same level no matter how much they practice, and the lack of movement in the skill bar. One way to make people feel that they are making more progress is to spread out the items you can make across even more levels.
For example instead of having to smith 500 items to learn the next level of items all at once: X Helmet, X Sword, X Armor, X Dagger, XShield, you could make it so that you learn to make X Helmet after 100 sucessful smithings, then X Sword after another 100 etc, and after they have smithed 500 items, they will have learned how to make all 5 items. This way people see some results more quickly, even though it's actually the same speed to learn everything, and perhaps this is more realistic to learn 1 new item at a time instead of suddenly one day being able to make 5 new things all at once.
Another thing you could do is make the skill bar look longer or some other method that lets people notice more movement of their skill bar to make people feel that they are making more progress.
For example instead of having to smith 500 items to learn the next level of items all at once: X Helmet, X Sword, X Armor, X Dagger, XShield, you could make it so that you learn to make X Helmet after 100 sucessful smithings, then X Sword after another 100 etc, and after they have smithed 500 items, they will have learned how to make all 5 items. This way people see some results more quickly, even though it's actually the same speed to learn everything, and perhaps this is more realistic to learn 1 new item at a time instead of suddenly one day being able to make 5 new things all at once.
Another thing you could do is make the skill bar look longer or some other method that lets people notice more movement of their skill bar to make people feel that they are making more progress.
Only an experience I made with the skill system is that I am mining now more than a thousand times, I see it incresing and am happy, also I stop when I find another chance of making money.
But I also smithed over 100 Daggers and a dozen other things plus 30 shovels or so. And now, after 3 days of mining and smithing I saw my first red point in blacksmithing...
Its frustrating, I never will be able to learn to smith great things, cause I have a real life and I must learn and work there more than 8 hours a day, so I can't invest another 8 hours a day for learning smithing in a new game... I must say that this is still a game. Well, there is the chance of becoming better, but for a game its quiet too slow.
I read a thread where someone said: "... he was working for more than 6 hours... I wouldn't do that, I have RL too", and in another one: "...newbies dont have the time to talk, else they wouldn't get better, they must work..."
Hm, is this the meaning of the play? working? I play Roleplay to speak with others, interact with NPC's, fight, cast spells, laugh, loot treasure, live an adventure, etc... but not to work all day. That I can have in RL...
A little but surprisingly adventageous proposal is to give everybody the chance of choosing a profession on charactercreation. When I had choosen, by example, glassworkings, I would have a third or a half on the skillpoints and could do this job without to play first 2 months or so till I can do this. I could go to a lumberjack and ask for ashes, to another one to sell me sand and then I will work some bottles, sell them to some druids and buy myself after that some clothes and a Dagger from a smith, who can smith more than a dagger, a club, a helmet and a shield. 'Cause I would only go on adventure when I am old enough, and every child learns in fantasy / medieval worlds a skill before he can hold a sword...
What brings me to another question: "Money from NPCs" Ok, they are merchants and want to make money with it, so not much payment is ok, but a dagger of iron and a shield of iron are only 2 gp worth? If the dagger would have quality points (made by a beginner or made by a master, etc.) and that were less, I could understand, but so... The pieces should make some profit, and if you should raise the time to produce and lower the time to learn or make a jobchoosing for characters the prices could be more realistic...
thanks
But I also smithed over 100 Daggers and a dozen other things plus 30 shovels or so. And now, after 3 days of mining and smithing I saw my first red point in blacksmithing...
Its frustrating, I never will be able to learn to smith great things, cause I have a real life and I must learn and work there more than 8 hours a day, so I can't invest another 8 hours a day for learning smithing in a new game... I must say that this is still a game. Well, there is the chance of becoming better, but for a game its quiet too slow.
I read a thread where someone said: "... he was working for more than 6 hours... I wouldn't do that, I have RL too", and in another one: "...newbies dont have the time to talk, else they wouldn't get better, they must work..."
Hm, is this the meaning of the play? working? I play Roleplay to speak with others, interact with NPC's, fight, cast spells, laugh, loot treasure, live an adventure, etc... but not to work all day. That I can have in RL...
A little but surprisingly adventageous proposal is to give everybody the chance of choosing a profession on charactercreation. When I had choosen, by example, glassworkings, I would have a third or a half on the skillpoints and could do this job without to play first 2 months or so till I can do this. I could go to a lumberjack and ask for ashes, to another one to sell me sand and then I will work some bottles, sell them to some druids and buy myself after that some clothes and a Dagger from a smith, who can smith more than a dagger, a club, a helmet and a shield. 'Cause I would only go on adventure when I am old enough, and every child learns in fantasy / medieval worlds a skill before he can hold a sword...
What brings me to another question: "Money from NPCs" Ok, they are merchants and want to make money with it, so not much payment is ok, but a dagger of iron and a shield of iron are only 2 gp worth? If the dagger would have quality points (made by a beginner or made by a master, etc.) and that were less, I could understand, but so... The pieces should make some profit, and if you should raise the time to produce and lower the time to learn or make a jobchoosing for characters the prices could be more realistic...
thanks
I think this should be implemented, but with the current script language it won't be practicable. As soon as the production is determined by database tables, every item can have its own skill-level, where it can be built.Dyluck wrote:One way to make people feel that they are making more progress is to spread out the items you can make across even more levels.