Illarion's Kalender / calendar of Illarion

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:52 am

Is everyone ignoring me?

Josefine da Vince · Post by **Josefine da Vince** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:26 am

Nope, I don't ignore you, and so I give a comment to your "system." 2:3 ist too hard to calculate and so its pretty confusing. That would mean you have to devide 48 hrs by 3

that would mean taht you have 16 hrs as one Illarion day...16 hrs sounds good but its too confusing (for me

)

Why I mix german and english? What do you mean? Why I write german and english posts? Or did I make a mistake in one of my post and totally mixed it?

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:55 pm

@Dyluck You need look only at your own posts to see the rude comments.

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:03 pm

Aragon wrote:If you now make a feast for each god in his/her month, celebrating the godness, you have to celebrate all three rl-days a feast for a god.

Most persons worship only one or even no god. Therefore they will have a feast once or never every Illarion year.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:37 pm

@Elaralith: Only you think there are. Seems you just hold a stubborn grudge, and have no real contribution to this discussion.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:04 pm

@Dyluck I don't think I am the only one. And I believe it is you who have been blinded by your own grudge since you seem not to see my "contribution" to this discussion. My input is to go ahead with this for now as everything looks pretty good! And if there is a problem about illarion time running too fast in the future it can also be changed, I think.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Jan 29, 2003 8:10 pm

[quote="Josefine da Vince"]I wonder why he gm's don't wanna see that this system is too fast an too confusing. If you have the day and nicht light thingy, than you have approximatly 2 hours darkness oder half-light and 1 hour full light, thats "stupid."quote]

Nicht? Oder?

Neonfire · Post by **Neonfire** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:10 am

I am working on an little program to calculate dates. It's already finished and in testing. It works fine so far, but I am not sure if the in-program calculation is alright. When the testing period is over I will give you the download location.

Rugosch · Post by **Rugosch** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:35 am

I have a good example for this.
Tuesday, we celebrated the opening ceremony of the Irmorom Temple. It have taken round one hour in rl. In the Illarion time line this were 8 hours.
An 8 hours ceremony? Its a bit too long, I think. 4 hours is IMHO a more realistic time.

And the crowning will take an equal time. This is lesser realistic as a opening ceremony of 8 hours. This events should also be interest to determine the time relation.

At all, I think a 4:1 time relation between Illarion and rl is better for the play. So if anybody is 3 hours rl-time in play and go then, he really go sleeping.
And he doesnt sleep 7 days in Illarion-time, if he would come back at the same time like the day before in rl-time.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:23 am

@Elaralith: Many others and I here were obviously engaged in a discussion and giving good reasons as to suggest why a slower ratio of illarian days to a real day such as 3:1 instead of 8:1 is better, and you then come in here and say to me first:

Elaralith wrote:Read between the lines. When I say that "you are all looking only on the bad side of things" I mean that you are NOT making helpful suggestions but rather complaining and grumbling. That is how I see your posts...

Obviously we were making helpful suggestions here to get a better time ratio and not just complaing. You're the one who's blinded and stubborn to have made that quote and take this discussion off track.

@Bror: Even though there aren't many followers for one god right now, I think most festivities organized for any god will be public. If we get more people who roleplay priests of each god and makes a celebration for a god during their month, then there will be a festival in the town every 3-rl days, and I think that's a bit too much.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:41 am

2:3 is still the best (2 real life days to 3 illarion ones)

Galdriel · Post by **Galdriel** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 8:51 am

right now we are reconsidering the day-span in the range of 4-6 hours.

@dyluck and elaralith:
its not very helpfull, if you are discussing your "discussion-styles" or "-reasons" here, even though you are not yet flaming.

at laffing:
a 2:3 ratio is nonsense. especially since for you are RL-Day seems to have just 12 hours.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 8:44 pm

@Dyluck Galdriel is right we shouldn't argue out our differences here.
@Gadriel Sorry, I just got a bit frustrated I think...Will not post such things again.

Nilanooniel · Post by **Nilanooniel** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:28 pm

hallo.
ich weiß nicht, worüber ihr euch hier schon alles gedanken gemacht habt, oder gar ob einer von euch schon versucht hat, den 3 stunden tagesrhytmus zu berücksichtigen.
ich jedenfalls habe es versucht und zwar in richtigem rollenspiel, nicht mit ständigem arbeiten und waren herstellen.
3 stunden reichen einfach zu keinem rollenspiel aus.
ein kampf, der in real wenige sekunden gehen kann, der wird durch gutes rollenspiel auf eine halbe ewigkeit hinausgezogen, aber bei 3 stunden = ein tag, da könnte ein kampf tage dauern, ich bitte euch, überdenkt das noch mal.
grüße
Nila
PS: Lulu, wieviele wochen ist das schon her, dass dein character geburtstag hatte?

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:44 am

Galdriel wrote: at laffing:
a 2:3 ratio is nonsense. especially since for you are RL-Day seems to have just 12 hours.

Wait, I do not understand your argument.

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 10:09 am

A three hour day would mean that there are players who don't sleep for 3 or more days in a row. Each RL day is 8 days in illarion. That makes one RL week 56 illarion days. One month is nearly an illarion year. Human characters that started with an age of 30 would live, realistically considering the time frame of illarion, for less than 2 real life years before they died of 'old age'. This would destroy character development! People didn't live very long back then. Any quests that start and end over a month or two later because a player is unable to play means they were gone for amazingly long periods of time within the game. This ridiculously short day would inhibit rp within and outside the game on the forums. I can't believe anyone in his or her right mind would support a three-hour day. At least make an illarion day 12 Rl hours. This way a player can play at any point during their day and rp within a reasonable amount of time for their character. I for one have rped a conversation for over three hours, that would be over a full day with this hack calandar! That's insane. No thank you. Whatever the time frame that is decided on, it should be devisable by two so you can play day and night within that time frame and not a day, a night, and a day again (such as would happen with the 2:3 ratop proposal) because you wouldn't know from day to day if it was day or night when you logged in. Please throw out this idea of a three hour day and move on to something more practical for the players, something that can be considered realistic.

Fedaykin · Post by **Fedaykin** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:36 pm

I like the idea of a 12 hour's day or an 8 hours day is OK too. 3 hours are to short when you think of the fact that the lifespan of people in the middle age are only 40 years. Ok we are not in the middle age. But i think 3 hours are to short for good RP more would be better.

Senk Kluuspointe Gren · Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:55 pm

I think you have longer days, then you need to drastically shorten the years, like only 100 days in a year or something

Falk vom Wald · Post by **Falk vom Wald** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:37 pm

Nachdem ich mich eingehend mit dem Kalendersystem und der daraus resultierenden Zeitrechnung beschäftigt habe, bzw. mit den vermeindlichen Auswirkungen auf das Spiel, möchte ich dazu meine Meinung sagen.

Vorab mein Dank an Nanuk, da die Einrichtung eines Zeitsystems meiner Ansicht nach zu den ganz elementaren Dingen zählt, die in einem Dauer-Rollenspiel wie Illarion geklärt sein müssen. Aber ein solches Zeitsystem gehört eben auch zu den schwierigeren Unterfangen und so scheint es mir nur natürlich, dass es Diskussionen über Detailfragen gibt. Nanuk hatte sein System im Januar 2003 vorgestellt, seitdem aber auf keines der Feedbacks geantwortet. Ich hoffe sehr, dass dies nicht ein Zeichen dafür ist, dass Kritik als etwas Negatives angesehen wird. Soweit meine Vorrede.

@ Loki Feuerhaar: Warum 365 Tage?

Die Antwort scheint mir darin zu liegen, dass Illarion (laut Nanuk eine Insel) zwar in einer mittelalterlich geprägten Fantasy-Welt angesiedelt ist, diese jedoch auf dem Planeten Erde liegt. Der Zeitrechnung liegt offenbar das irdische Sonnenjahr zugrunde. Dass es jetzt 16 Monate gibt mit einer für mich nicht nachvollziebaren Abweichung der Dauer im letzten Monat - inch allah... (also Geschmacksache, und daher argumentresistent)

Daraus aber resultiert meines Erachtens eine epochale Erkenntis, nämlich die der Gültigkeit der irdischen Naturgesetze und der Physik. Oder andersherum gesagt: Alle Phänomene Illarions, die nicht durch die Naturgesetze oder die Physik zu erklären sind, (zB. die Monster, die Heilung am Kreuz, die Wirkung von Zaubern) gehören in den Bereich der Meta-Physik und müssen aus diesen Quellen auch begründet werden (Magie, Götter, etc). Das klingt vielleicht banal, aber ich bin mir sicher, dass das noch das eine oder andere Mal für Diskussionsstoff sorgen wird.

@ Aragon ua: 3 RL-Stunden = 1 Tag

Ich stimmen mit Euch darin überein, dass eine Drei-Stunden-Regel Probleme mit sich bringt. Die aufgezählten Beispiele sind absolut zutreffend. Nur: Welche andere Zeiteinteilung brächte keine Probleme mit sich? Selbst eine 1:1 RL-Zeit hat ihre Macken, nämlich zB. den Umstand, dass Spieler aus verschiedenen RL-Welt-Zeit-Zonen Illarion spielen und sich daraus das Problem ergibt, dass zB. die US-geführten Chars in aller Regel zu einer Zeit aktiv sind, in der die Mehrzahl der MEZ-geführten (zB. deutschen) Chars abwesend sind. Natürlich kann man jetzt in eine Diskussion eintreten ob vielleicht vier Stunden besser waären als drei, ein anderer mag dann den Einwand führen, fünf Stunden seien das rechte Maß...

Was mir viel gravierender erscheint, ist die Anmerkung Aragons zur Auswirkung der Zeitrechnung auf die Alterung der Chars. Er hat es ja gnädiger Weise am Beispiel eines relativ kurzlebigen Menschen ausgeführt, aber fangt mal an zu rechnen, vor welchem Dilemma der Spieler eines Elben steht...

Fazit: Aus dem zuvor Gesagten leitet sich für mich zwingend ab, dass wir den Sinn und Zweck einer Zeitrechnung nicht gleichsetzen dürfen mit ihrer praktischen Anwendung. Ebenso wie wir als Rollenspieler Dinge akzeptieren wir Magie und Wiedergeburt am Kreuz, müssen wir die Zeit Illarions als eine relative Größe begreifen. Relativ deshalb, weil sie im Augenblick, im Hier und Jetzt als die uns vertraute (RL-)Zeit begegnet, rückblickend sich aber auf die Nanuk'sche Zeit(be-)rechnung transformiert. Es ergäbe sich daraus ein Betätigungsfeld für Spezialisten, Zeit-Kundige etwa, die als Geschichtsschreiber eine neue Zunft begründen, wie es die (wenigen) Schriftgelehrten der dunklen Zeit des Ersten nachchristlichen Jahrtausends bei uns darstellten.
Wir kennen im Umgang mit Illarion noch mehr solcher Transformationen. Tagtäglich durchstreifen wir die Insel Illarion und begegnen ständig neuen Herausforderungen (in unseren Quests und mit Hilfe unserer Vorstellungskraft, obwohl die Karte, in wenigen Minuten durchschreitbar, Illarions Gesamtgröße auf die Fläche eines mittleren Dorfes schrumpeln lässt. Wir synchronisieren die Größe der Stadt Trollsbane (oder wie auch immer die akkurate Schreibweise lauten mag) und die reale Zahl der in ihr lebenden Chars, obwohl die wenige Häusschen selbst im günstigsten Fall das erforderliche Obdach nicht zu geben vermögen.

Mit der Zeit Illarions sollten wir es vielleicht ähnlich machen und uns daran gewöhnen - mit der Zeit.

Galdriel · Post by **Galdriel** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 10:14 pm

well, a simple calculation:

4 hour system:
4 h RL = 24 h Illarion
1 day RL = 6 days Illarion
4 days RL = 1 month Illarion
2 month RL = 1 year Illarion
1 year RL = 6 years Illarion
10 years RL = 60 years Illarion

6 hour system:
6 h RL = 24 h Illarion
1 day RL = 4 days Illarion
6 days RL = 1 month Illarion
3 month RL = 1 year Illarion
1 year RL = 4 years Illarion
10 years RL = 40 years Illarion

I dont believe that anybody will play a single charakter for 10 years...
and maybe one should not.

as for the 365 day year.
we wanted to use it to make an odd number of illarion years to fit into a real year.
anyway the 3 hours system is out, propably we will try one of the above.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 10:24 pm

Another possibility:

8 hour system:
8 h RL = 24 h Illarion
1 day RL = 3 days Illarion
8 days RL = 1 month Illarion
4 month RL = 1 year Illarion
1 year RL = 3 years Illarion
10 years RL = 30 years Illarion

I think, the three Illadays in one day fit good to the timezones, where most players play. For each mainzone one day to play.

Two of the ten years, we just played through, Gal.

Fedaykin · Post by **Fedaykin** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:15 pm

Yes i think the 8 hours system would be good. And there would be no problems with the other time zones.

Chris Killeron · Post by **Chris Killeron** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:32 pm

I agree, its fits in just right as each of the 3 days are well fitted for a certain time zone

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:58 am

I don't like an 8-hour system...time would pass too slowly in illarion. I doubt people will play illarion for 10 years of their RL lives...with such a slow time system there would not be much chance for good RP that comes with aging....people would not be able to RP their players getting old!

Fedaykin · Post by **Fedaykin** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:36 am

How long would you make a illa day to play your char from birth to death?

If they made a day 4 hours
24 hours = 6 days
1 Year would be 6 Illa Years so you have to play at least 4 Years (if your char was 18 year at your beginning) to death (42 Years was old in the middle age).

Do you know that you still playing illarion in 4 years?

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:57 am

Yes but, what if you don't want you character aging really fast? Like me?

Xaveria · Post by **Xaveria** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 2:40 am

Geeting older

It is a nice way to see peoples rpging sikness and unbehave.

It would be a challenge to a good player.

Btw. I prefer the 8 h variant.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:47 am

Aragon wrote:Another possibility:

8 hour system:
8 h RL = 24 h Illarion
1 day RL = 3 days Illarion
8 days RL = 1 month Illarion
4 month RL = 1 year Illarion
1 year RL = 3 years Illarion
10 years RL = 30 years Illarion

I think, the three Illadays in one day fit good to the timezones, where most players play. For each mainzone one day to play.

Two of the ten years, we just played through, Gal.

How come when Aragon says it, everyone agrees, but when I say it, everyone says it is stupid?

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 9:46 am

paul laffing wrote:2:3 is still the best (2 real life days to 3 illarion ones)

Aragon wrote:1 day RL = 3 days Illarion

paul laffing wrote:How come when Aragon says it, everyone agrees, but when I say it, everyone says it is stupid?

Cause you don't said the same, as I said.

Senk Kluuspointe Gren · Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:35 pm

Yeah, this won't allow for any of the characters to grow old, unless you set their starting age high. I'm an elf, don't they live for thousands of years in this game? That means for my character to grow old and die, I would need to play him for hundreds of RL years! I think if most characters had a life span of only a few of RL years that would be better than ten RL years straight of playing non-stop to get your Illarion character to croak!