The lost System

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:08 pm

very simple how they should be RPed Dantagon. Just look at Salhari.

Thank you Kurga for your point on magic and the Ogham.

Their magics are subtle and can help on many things. As i said before, you have to have some realism behind the druid class, thus a true druid should have some basis in making it. I am not saying that it has got to be me or anything, but it does need to keep realism.

As far as RP for a druid goes, I belive Salhari embodies it very well. He is also accepting students

but it is all rp right now as there is no system in place

blessings of the goddess upon you all,
Jeromy

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:13 pm

Okay, I'll reword this. Yes I understand we need to ajust the skills of druids, but do all skills have to be on the skills table? Maybe it would be better if some of the skills they have are also rped skills, like knowlage of areas you can't play out with the 'use' command. The whole astonomy thing could be rped. Maybe there are astronomy charts that match different times of the year. They can rp the actual knowlage, or skill, of what constilation is what.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:15 pm

Dantagon Marescot wrote:Okay, I'll reword this. Yes I understand we need to ajust the skills of druids, but do all skills have to be on the skills table? Maybe it would be better if some of the skills they have are also rped skills, like knowlage of areas you can't play out with the 'use' command. The whole astonomy thing could be rped. Maybe there are astronomy charts that match different times of the year. They can rp the actual knowlage, or skill, of what constilation is what.

To rp astronomy would require at least some basis in lore correctness

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:18 pm

Well if they'd interested in things like that then there's always the chance for them to make new books. About stars about area's and what not. there are ways to support rp knowledge with ingame devices so to speak. you'd have to talk to one of the Dev's for that i'd believe, and it would have to be a book of several pages (probably about ten miniumum i'd guess).

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:21 pm

well, to give a simple outline of the magic system flashing through my head, here we go
1)The mage system is based around runes and the combination of such. In rl the druids made their magic with relics and holy items. Thus the magic of the druids come from their relics, which have to me imbued or crafted by an archdruid and given to them.
2)the mages power comes from their understanding and 'skill' with each rune, could this not be implemented with relics?
3)since items can be passed along, the power doesn't lie with the item but with the druid, and if it the item is passed it loses it's powers to the new person until the learn to use it (thus, the items need to be imbued by an Archdruid and given to the characters, only being able to give them once makes it where everyone isn't running around with druidic lore items)
4)the spells be based around your knowledge of the items you possess and your ability with each. Have an entire new spells list, mimicing just a few mage spells.

thank you, that is just a basic outline, i have more in my head lol

Blessings of the goddess upon you all,
Jeromy
PO Salhari

Kurga Wolfbane · Post by **Kurga Wolfbane** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:21 pm

Ok, anytime we say RP this or RP that, it gets screwed by a few rotten apples. Good RP'ers fade away and die out and the whole point of the RP'd skill is lost to time and becomes perverted or forgotten.

I would much rather keep it 'skill-based' like reading. Why isn't 'reading' RP'd, it could be? Because it's a prerequisite to Mage skills.

Astronomy, dibvination, magic weapon Assessment, Rune crafting, Plant location, summoning, Beast mastery, Shape shifting, etc. and other 'skills' true and fantasy druids would have are culled over a long period of time, rely upon experience and can't just be RP'd if they are going to last as a 'system'.

I believe all 'systems' should be based on similar standards and skill based. Otherwise it's way too confusing and wouldn't be easy to create game balance.

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:23 pm

Thank you Kurga, you seem to have at least some knowledge of the true druids, as i fear some people in this topin have not.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:28 pm

Salhari wrote:Thank you Kurga, you seem to have at least some knowledge of the true druids, as i fear some people in this topin have not.

You probably don't mean to but this does sound rather conceited. i'm sure there is plenty you don't know about other things as well, but it doesn't mean your opinion becomes completely invalid, everyone is entitled to there own opinions as this isn't your game alone but a community

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:32 pm

you are right, i did not mean for that to sound conceited and thus i apologize to any it insulted or hurt in any way.
I listen to anyones opinions with an open mind, i am simply trying to keep this game from taking on the sterotypical druid, as it seems every other game has. Games are games, it is true, but Druidism seems to be the only Religion to ever make it into games now adays

I am trying to keep people from seeing druids as they have in the past. Simple enough no? no. There are so many myths and rumors and flat out LIES that have been spread... ok ok i know i am ranting now... anyways, i apologize

Blessings of the goddess upon you all
Jeromy
PO Salhari

Kurga Wolfbane · Post by **Kurga Wolfbane** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:34 pm

Salhari, I just study religions of all kinds as I am Wiccan myself and am really into Game balance and longevity.

There are bigger issues behind this game, than "what skills I have". It's not all about skills, but dammit Skills provide the backbone for the RP to progress. If it wasn't true, we'd still be sitting around a kitchen ytable playing D&D.

I'm sorrry, but a system of skills is absolutely necessary if 'Druidry' is to work.

As an example, look at Salhari as a character. He comes to Gobiath, he RP's as a great Druid, and I have observed no-one really takes him seriously as one. He had to ask about Potion recipes and such. If Salhari had the skills to back up his RP, there would be so much more he could do. It's fun and passes the tim, but players don't really care about the RP your charcter presents, but if you can back it up with skills, they listen and start asking for your help, wanting to place orders, wanting you to go on quests, etc. I have seen it happen so many times to people with great RP. It's just a shame.

It's all about skills to back up the RP, sorry.

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:37 pm

i never knew that about you Kurga... no wonder we get along so well

anyway, she makes valid points. I have RPed him as a druid all through the lands and yet can not seem to find many people willing to take gim seriously.

Hats off to Taliss, Kurga, and Dantagon, leaders of guilds who accept Salhari for what he is.

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:41 pm

Kurga Wolfbane wrote: It's all about skills to back up the RP, sorry.

right... unfortunately... and fortunately, too

Kurga Wolfbane · Post by **Kurga Wolfbane** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:41 pm

Salhari, no offense, but lets keep discussion between players, not characters. This has nothing to do with Kurga, but game design and balance.

Kurga is only my latest addiction, and she's working out well. I have played many other characters in the past, some good, some bad, one excellent (Everyone misses him). We just try to keep OOC separate from RP. "Keh?"

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:46 pm

Yah know, us smart neo-pagans who wish to keep our heads don't go around telling people what religion we are. OOC religion has nothing to do with Illa. The only religion that matters is the one portaid in game.

Yeah, we need skills. But sometimes it is fun to play devils advocit too.

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:47 pm

of course, of course
Anyway, does anyone know where druidry ranks on their list of stuff to get straightened out? I don't think I am going to quit playing Salhari for a while but it would be WONDERFUL for him to finally be able to do something. His stats are set up as a wise old man, thus he is no good at all in combat. He requires guards just to be able to around exploring (ask Kurga

) and seeing as how now mages in game can accept students right now, it seems like it is going to be that way for a while. Also, the herb combinations need to be able to be learnt from either a secret book somewhere or something, because right now it is all the druids have and no one wants to teach them to anyone else! (except Kurga

thanks again) That needs to be changed as well, so players like me who currently have druids but do not fit with the old druid circle, can learn them.

Blessings of the goddess upon you,
Jeromy
PO Salhari Whitewalker

Kurga Wolfbane · Post by **Kurga Wolfbane** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:52 pm

True, RL religion isn't in Illa, but if people treated Illa religion like RL Religion, it would be more prominant as a dynamic and clerics, priests and druids would be taken more seriously. As it is now, try finding a priest to even marry you? Or a goldsmith good enough to make a diamond ring? The 'religious' are boring classes cause no one takes them seriously.

I am proud of my religion, It's OOC info, and has nothing to do with the game except the knowledge base I use to draw from. In fact I know more about Christianity than most christians. I also have three college degrees, shouldn't I mention those too? It is simply experience to draw from, nothing more. Don't take OOC matters so personally. We're all here to have fun.

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:54 pm

of course. I apologize again. seems i do that alot.

sorry for ranting ya'll

Jeromy

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:06 pm

Hey, I'm not saying anything against anyones religion. I'm just saying it isn't always the best idea to go annoucing what religion you are on global boards. I'm just happy no one is doing any flaming. Neo-paganism and it's sub-religions/groupings are very useful when it comes to games which involve similar ideals. And I would love to hear what degrees you have via PM.

I must agree, religion isn't taken seriouslly enough in Illa. Many times I have people asking Dantagon why they have to learn about the gods. They are there for sure in the game, and should be learned about. There are a lot of cultural elements in Illa which aren't even looked at. Realism is nice, but this is a fantasy game and a completely different world. We have a chance to quite litterally create a whole new culture.

One more thing to maybe think about. Do druids have to have some relation to RL ones? Maybe we should take a closer look at what is going on in game? The history and the gods do not match what we see in RL. What should a druid be like ig and how should they act (over all, not each character). Then we should figure out what skills specifically fit what we both can do, and want to do ig.

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:09 pm

the rl druids can easily overlap into the game as the 5 elder gods are merely the gods of the elements (fire,water,spirit,earth and air).
Druids can be, as in real life, advocates and priests of the elder gods.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:09 pm

Kurga Wolfbane wrote:Salhari, I just study religions of all kinds as I am Wiccan myself and am really into Game balance and longevity.

There are bigger issues behind this game, than "what skills I have". It's not all about skills, but dammit Skills provide the backbone for the RP to progress. If it wasn't true, we'd still be sitting around a kitchen ytable playing D&D.

.

Excuse me, but I still am.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:45 pm

the rl druids can easily overlap into the game as the 5 elder gods are merely the gods of the elements (fire,water,spirit,earth and air).

wrong! wronger! wrongest!

please read the moonsilver pages, than you might understand more of the illarion pantheon.

just to state the most obvious: the illarion gods are more than just five. and they are "persons" like the nordic gods, or the greek ones.
the elements and their spirits are something very different.

edit:
in former posts you referred to the celts. the celtic gods aren't elemental gods either.
and elements or their spirits are used, not worshiped.

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:34 pm

very nice Korm, you seem to know alot. It is true we call upon the elements and their 'rulers' and the celtic gods are, like in the norse Panthaeon, people. But i was simply showing how the two CAN overlap, not how they should or would. I know there are 16 gods in the game and can even list them and their 'domains' as it is something Salhari must know. He not only preachs for the five but also the 11. I understand the pantheon of the game, and just because the elder gods left the world, does not mean that the druids and/or priests can not worship them.

Ku 'Agor · Post by **Ku 'Agor** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:58 pm

Sigh, I hate when religion interferes in every damn thing. One game I was playing had to dismiss the arrival of player controlled Vampire characters because they got a complaint from some nut job bible thumper saying it offended his 'Christian Moral Spirit'

Meh.

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:25 pm

the only thing i am trying to do based on rl religion is keep the normal sterotypes from getting attached to the druids in this game. I do not mind peoples religion, and respect it as their choice. I am surprised i have not been flamed already by a couple of christians, but i hope it does not come to that.

This is to any and all people reading my notes:
I respect your religion and your right to practice it, please do the same for me

Blessings of the goddess upon you all,
Jeromy
PO Salhari

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:30 am

i would think, that by your way, to mix and twist things, you might be in danger to get flamed by pagans too....

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:49 am

I think you need to start thinking to what we have ig instead of what you see in rl. And yes, you should listen to Korm on this. Don't try to mix the two perfectly.

Now think for a moment. You have never been to Earth, you have never lived in America, Germany, or where ever the hell you come from. All you know is Illarion, your orginal home, Serinjah, Salkamar, Albar, usw/etc. Then you come to this magical, mystical, and down right cruel and messed up place called Gobaith. What do you see, what do you learn? What do they have there?

Point is, get off of the whole matching things to real life. It won't fit exactly, it won't fit correctly. Sure we can try and keep our druids from completely matching sterotypes from our world.

http://www.moonsilver.de/ -- Take a good look at this site. Yes the Elder gods do match the five points on a pentagram. Even then, I suggest you take a look for which god or goddess is mainly followed by druids.

Salhari · Post by **Salhari** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:42 am

*hangs his head* you are right. I am trying to mix things a little to perfectly. I know of the goddess Dantagon, let us just leave it at that. I will refrain any more of talking of how druids should be rped or anything of the sort.

Sorry

This topic was about the coming up Druid magic system. I have already posted a basic outline on my idea for it. Any remarks based around that i will gladly accept and respond to. Any others i will simply ignore as to keep myself from looking more foolish than i do now.

Thank you
Blessings of the goddess upon you,
Jeromy
PO Salhari

Ku 'Agor · Post by **Ku 'Agor** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:28 pm

Yes, I vote my idea.

Let's all throw dirty 5 year old pickles at Nitram until he makes us our system.

Wheels out cart of 5 year old pickles

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:38 pm

Shit we were supposed to throw those at nitram?

I thought they were lunch, sorry...