Balance of Weapons

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:52 pm

there are so many unknown aspects to combat now, that it is very difficult to find out through combat ingame of what is best, and on top of that, why it is best. Firstly... for a character to find out what he is best with, he has to get a weapon of each possible class, and each of these weapons has to be equal... now since players are left in the dark to technical aspects, i dont know if attributes favor 1h/2g swords/axes differently... so i have to find a 1h/2h/sword/axe that end up being equal in the end... same goes for puncture and concussion. Now since players are also unaware as to how good weapons of a certain class are they have to experiment with each kind of weapon first so that they can find equal weapons of each class. WHich in the end is impossible because they are naturally better with a certain weapon because of their attributes..

i cant even talk about this in a simple way since there are too many unknowns...

in the end the best way to find what your strongest weapon is, is to buy every single weapon and go fight some monster over and over, counting how many hits it takes, recording how much damage you take, tkaing into consideration parries and dodges... and through all of this finding your best weapon...

and another unknown i just thought of... many monsters spawn with different armors weapons each time... now you have to take into consideration waht that monster is using and it effects what your using

and all these shenanigans through all the nonsense of combat to find what weapon your are truely best with, you are yelled at for powergaming

there is no easy way to find through only ingame combat, without any technical knowledge, to find your best weapon... it is nearly impossible.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:03 pm

And in real life you could just tell what weapon you are best with by using a few things and seeing what feels right. So maybe we should have some sort of indicator of how good the weapon is.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:04 pm

Salathe wrote:there are so many unknown aspects to combat now, that it is very difficult to find out through combat ingame of what is best, and on top of that, why it is best. Firstly... for a character to find out what he is best with, he has to get a weapon of each possible class, and each of these weapons has to be equal... now since players are left in the dark to technical aspects, i dont know if attributes favor 1h/2g swords/axes differently... so i have to find a 1h/2h/sword/axe that end up being equal in the end... same goes for puncture and concussion. Now since players are also unaware as to how good weapons of a certain class are they have to experiment with each kind of weapon first so that they can find equal weapons of each class. WHich in the end is impossible because they are naturally better with a certain weapon because of their attributes..

i cant even talk about this in a simple way since there are too many unknowns...

in the end the best way to find what your strongest weapon is, is to buy every single weapon and go fight some monster over and over, counting how many hits it takes, recording how much damage you take, tkaing into consideration parries and dodges... and through all of this finding your best weapon...

and another unknown i just thought of... many monsters spawn with different armors weapons each time... now you have to take into consideration waht that monster is using and it effects what your using

and all these shenanigans through all the nonsense of combat to find what weapon your are truely best with, you are yelled at for powergaming

there is no easy way to find through only ingame combat, without any technical knowledge, to find your best weapon... it is nearly impossible.

These are the problems you face in real life as well. Do not only focus on making the best char posible. Make your char, and find out wich weapon he seems to do best with. If you find one you do better with, starts using that instead. These are the problems you face in real life as well. I admit that I am rather new as well, but please pm me any questions, and I will answer as best i can.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:04 pm

Lrmy wrote:And in real life you could just tell what weapon you are best with by using a few things and seeing what feels right. So maybe we should have some sort of indicator of how good the weapon is.

A short indicator would be nice.

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:05 pm

Umm, cuthalion, salathe is not new, he's like the best fighter and smith on the island.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:06 pm

hehe, ok nice. Sry;)

Kurybo · Post by **Kurybo** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:22 pm

Salathe is NOT the best smith!

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:24 pm

He is the one with the highest skill at least, but I think his dexterity makes him suck now.

Kurybo · Post by **Kurybo** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:25 pm

No, there are much better smith around!

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:26 pm

thinking about all fo this agitates me. All i really want is for the devs to explain technically how this all works, but im sure they wont because they want all technical things hidden to conserve roleplay... but this game is in beta and many things dont work right at all... such as the weapons being unbalanced, and as players, it really sucks to be in this unbalanced world and not understand the technicalities of it all. If we had one perfect combat system, along with a set of perfectly balanced weapons/armor to be utilized with this system, it would be well to hide these technical aspects, but as long as there are problems i think it would be good let the players udnerstand about everything, that we too can put in constructive arguements to the developement of this game. Because we all love it too

and yea, i wont hide it, i want salathe to be able to kill as best he can, thats no secret, and i've never hidden it. WHy wouldnt you want your fighter to be able to fight as best he can, its silly you dont understand, and because you dont understand you cant have your warrior be as good as he can be.

well i cant think straight anymore... goood bye

And who really cares who is the best. I wont be palying for another 5 or 6 months ;D

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:37 pm

We should know in some degree i think. We should for example know what atributes makes you good with the sword, and what makes you good with concussion and so on. We shouldnt know exactly how important the diferent atributes are though. Anyway, it seem the system isnt balanced...

Cya in some months Salathe:)

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:41 pm

This should be a fighting system sticky.

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:18 am

Ghost_Archon wrote:As I see it, or as I am finding it, the sword is the ultimate weapon. ( completely excluding magic)
It is the only weapon that has magic. (the dagger is poisoned)
What do those of use that are using staffs, rapiers, and maces?

To lazy to read whole thread. But if you mean magical staffs, rapiers and maces...we had a discussion about that a few months ago. The staff just did not implement it I think.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:55 am

Estralis Seborian wrote:Concerning the "how good is a weapon" topic: What do you think about some kind of identification system? A method that produces texts like this: "This is a serinjahsword. [Random gibberish about the history of swords in the serinja culture]. It is a rather/very/extremely swift/clumsy weapon that deals huge/alot/moderate/slight slashing damage. Parrying blows with this weapon is easy/challenging/almost impossible."

I think it would be *wonderful* if it were done for both weapons and armor. Either build in an 'examine' ability, or even post something on either the webpage, the forum, or moonsilver. Also possible would be a book containing the info IG (or several even, one for armor and one for each weapon type) but that would be slightly harder to manage (finding the right book and so forth).

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:57 am

the book idea would be great...

NirAntae wrote:but that would be slightly harder to manage (finding the right book and so forth).

That would be part of the fun and realism...if you needed to find something in a library...you have to first search for the right book, then for the right page or section you want and it may take time...

I like this idea

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:02 am

abcfantasy,

i agree. nice idea.

but... (allways a but...) .... a fighter of low intelligence would not be able, to read the book(s).

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:27 am

well that's good also...
a reason why warriors shouldnt make intelligence veryyy low and max out str agi and so on...

and if they did, it suits them not to be able to read...they wouldn't be literate at all

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:32 am

Even that's okay, it could also promote more RP... find a nice high-int char to read it *to* them.

I still like an easier-access form available, one the website or moonsilver, but just as long as the info was made available *somewhere*.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:41 am

you two are right. i did not think enough about that.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:50 am

Of course, having such info available (which would be *wonderful*) does not change the underlying imbalance between the weapons forms.

Saying different forms favor different balances in stats only goes so far.

High-end slashing weapons still do more damage than the comparable high-end concussion weapons, let alone the other forms. And then, of course, you can get magical slashing weapons which are even more of a boost, whereas there are none or almost none available in any other forms.

Saying there *are* some, but only as monster drops on monsters that obviously very few if any players can or do kill (since we don't know about them), is not an answer to this.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:14 pm

I don't know about the balance of weapons, but somebody please do something about the lacking feeling of progress and near-complete stumbling in the dark that relates to skillgaining. I would like to know if my character gains any skill from the monsters that I kill, but it's pretty hard to determine because I seem to get the swirlies extremely rarely at this point. *sigh*

So, since the monster-killing does not give me as a player any particular enjoyement (it's something that I see as 'necessary evil', so to speak) I'd like to know wether or not I am completely wasting my time as player. I don't want to use any more time than absolutely necessary on skillgaining and hence I would appriciate some heads up regarding to this.

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:17 pm

I have to agree with that. It is damn near immpossible to get a swirlie when you are in the green. I know that it is supposed to be harder to gain skills, but you should at least feel you are acomplishing more than... well... nothing.

Alytys Lamar · Post by **Alytys Lamar** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:27 pm

/agreed and /signed to both

I would really dislike to spend more time for skill gaining.
But you play a fighter you have to do this ....

No more to say for me yet

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:39 pm

No experience? Two ways to solve that perticular problem.
1. Get out there and fight the red skeleton lichs
2. Duel your friends

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:06 pm

You do know that you cant drink strong potions in fights anymore, and that a red skeleton could kick Arameh's ass while fighting on its back? PvP also isnt even worth at all, it gives less skill than fighting NPCs.

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:14 pm

Umm.... I jokes....

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:00 am

Arameh wrote:You do know that you cant drink strong potions in fights anymore, and that a red skeleton could kick Arameh's ass while fighting on its back? PvP also isnt even worth at all, it gives less skill than fighting NPCs.

Not if you fight people above/at your skill level. Arameh would get horrible skill gain because no one is at his level.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:13 am

...

I have other characters than Arameh, I have a character who did several training duels agaisnt a higher level one and he got nothing at all.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:20 am

one of my chars had a fistfight a couple of days ago. he got three swirlies.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:24 am

Korm Kormsen wrote:one of my chars had a fistfight a couple of days ago. he got three swirlies.

Fist fighting is gained fast and is only usefull against npcs and other players with no weapon. Unless you have a significantly higher wrestling skill than they have weapon skill. This is just from what I have seen.

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Balance of Weapons

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