I always sucked at titles..just read

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:17 pm

There's honey in the hollows, and the contours of the body.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:41 pm

Cliu Beothach wrote:There's honey in the hollows, and the contours of the body.

Genius.

Devrah Liioness · Post by **Devrah Liioness** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:58 pm

Quote:
2. later he fooled around and played the clown when he got questioned by a gm. a very stupid behaviour.

Oh, I didn't know you could recieve a permanent ban for joking, my mistake.

Oh I could have told you that one.

Incidentally, from what I've been told of the whole thing... Sam is right. Never thought I would say this, but he is. Illarion has gone to the dogs, and the GMs and Devs and.. oh yes... the WATCHERS... have really gotten swelled heads.

Atuan Silverheart · Post by **Atuan Silverheart** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:15 pm

Atuan Silverheart wrote:Sharing info about other people chars should be against the rules, GM or not. Everyone has the right to privacy.

Marius

the end

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Atuan stop sending me threats through PM pls thnx.

Why do you believe we need our privacy?

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:16 pm

Retlak wrote:Atuan stop sending me threats through PM pls thnx.

Why do you believe we need our privacy?

Because invaision of privacy happens to be against the law in about 40 countries, it should be no differant here

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:25 pm

But this is not a country, this is a game.

Returner stop sending me threats through PM pls thnx.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:26 pm

Are they sending you threats? lol.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:27 pm

Yeah, They keep threatening me not to post because i am useless apparently..

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:28 pm

O..k..

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:21 am

OMFG Hadrien is sending my threats now! Leave me alone!

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:23 am

And we worship at the shrine
of the thylacine.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:55 am

Cliu Beothach wrote:And we worship at the shrine
of the thylacine.

Genius.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:39 am

If you back down now, and give in to the whining soon everything will be questioned around here, i.e. "That last quest was sooo mean, why didn't X happen instead of Y, change that now!" and one day everything will run in circles around here because everyone complains about everything.

That's a slippery slope fallacy. Changing the ban to a reasonable length of time (I'll agree that he violated rules, that's quite apparent) gives us no reason to believe that "everything will run in circles around here because everyone complains about everything" is the logical consequence of changing the length of the ban from permanent to definate.

Atuan Silverheart wrote: Sharing info about other people chars should be against the rules, GM or not. Everyone has the right to privacy.

Marius
the end

Restating your claim and adding, "the end" doesn't constitute an argument, so I'm not sure why you bothered with this post. Furthermore, the fact that everyone has the right to privacy doesn't establish that your argument is right. Everyone also has the right to freely receive and impart information. Not to say that you're wrong, but maybe it would be more convincing if you gave some reason why one right was more important than the other, or why violating that rule should ever result in a permanent ban.

I'll agree quite readily that same broke what are apparently rules. What I disagree with is that the rules he violated should result in a permanent ban of his account. Maybe that will change if someone tells me which of Sam's previous offences was so grievous as to warrant a complete ban as a result of this recent problem.

My second issue is with the way the post was handled. It is reasonable to remove the information linking the GM in question to the character in question. It's also reasonable to remove a log if one of the people who are involved opposes it.

What I take issue with is that two topics were completely deleted, Sam's IP was banned, and no explanation was given until after other players became agitated. The deletion of the topic prevented any discussion of the topic at hand, if Sam deserved the punishment he received. The banning of his IP removed any chance for Sam to defend himself. Finally, that no explanation was given for the deletion of the topic worsened the situation.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:41 am

KORWIN, CAN YOU STOP TRYING TO BE BLACK?

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:47 am

@Korwin,

I have spoken to people and so far all I have heard was the ban he recived when one of his characters, one of mine, one of po Galtharans, and one of po Arameh's. Sam killed a non-OLD LANGUAGE speaking character(who knew and could read english). I agree with most of your statements.

I would just like to ask all players that do not know what happened to not bother posting on this subject. People that really have no idea what happened are posting here and fighting for or against the ban. That shows you do not really care what the subject is, you just are expressing your like/dislike for a PO.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:51 am

Um-...i think you are wrong informed, Lrmy. Or maybe the lied to you, like they lied already today to a GM in the try to make someone problems.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:52 am

That makes no sense.

It is not for you to decide who lies and who does not.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:54 am

Sorry thouhgt you meant this ban, not one of his former bans

And i dont have to decide who lied and who not. they tried making a GM belief i am the one who told them the identity of PO Gerron. so the GM asked me about it and i could proof that they both lied. and one of them told the truth than that he did.

i think they lied because they wanted to try giving me problems

Hu'greu · Post by **Hu'greu** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:00 am

ok from the last two topics about all I can gather is

blah blah blah I fucking hate you blah blah blah

Sam was banned for pissing off a GM and reavling his character

blah blah blah I hate you too.

I am unaware of sam past offensives, but for this alone he get a perm bann?
I really dont see how thats a perm banned, but if he had a history of trying to piss off the gm and dev then I would understand a perm ban

I dont hate Sam. Though he has given a lot to the community RP wise, but he also like to break rules. Maybe the GM just got feed up with it.

Wish you didnt have to go sam, but from the looks of it there not much we can do for a hibitual rule breaker too.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:01 am

FOR THE LAST TIME! IT'S PROVE! P-R-O-V-E!

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:40 am

This is too bad, I know alot of people enjoyed playing with Sam and his characters. He was the cause of alot of commotion, sure, but there was no reason to ruin other peoples fun from a bunch of nonsense. I haven't played illa much for a while now that I'm working so much, its really sad to see this happen. I don't think people have realized that Sam would have long since stop playing if there weren't people who didn't enjoy playing with him. To emote how I feel about this, think of in Helms Deep where the orcs were about to barge in, Theodin was trapped and was going to suffer defeat. Will Gandalf show up in time in this case?

Also having a gm enabled character does NOT make you a gm. There is no protections for gm-enabled chars of developers.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:52 pm

Also, once again I Remind you, they are staff members, we are players. What the smile are you going to do about it, lord arameh?

That's what I thought when I first joined this game. They run the game, their word is final. But a major part of what I like about this game, is how open the staff is. they take ideas, suggestions, complaints (if it is given in a dignified manner) This is the result of having a small community. I dislike the idea of thinking of the staff as what you describe them to be. Yes, they deserve our thanks, but if someone doesn't agree with them, I think we should be able to speak our minds (in a dignified manner)

That brings up another point. What the staff doesn't like, are crybabies. I think Arameh showed us the proper way to post a complaint, without involving cussing or anything, and continually urging us not to start some stupid flame war. If it were like that, then these important topics (to me at least) won't be continually locked. I hate it when a good topic gets locked because of a small fight. The Returner said this topic should be locked. Now. But why would it? nothing seemed wrong until his post. All of sudden, this topic gets ugly because turny starts cussin and acting mad for no reason. This game is based on maturity, I know you guys can act that way if you tried.

As for the actual ban, I see no need for such a harsh punishment. Stephen screwed up. Most of us can agree on that. Turny was right about finding loopholes, that's just stupid, but why such a large punishment for such a small act? Stephen is also an awesome addition to the game, his character is very well played out. He has been here longer than alot of people. Such a dedicated player should not, in my opinion, be permanently banned for something as minor as leaking a bit of info.

I'm not "lord Poots" and I do not work with the staff in any way, but this is my opinion. I urge the Gm's to reconsider their judgement. Just shortening then time limit of the ban would do. I also urge Stephen not to leave the game (assuming he does get the ban off) in rage (not saying you are or will)

Japheth · Post by **Japheth** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:07 pm

The last time PO Stephen Rothman got banned it was entirely out of order. Aegohl, myself and several of the other GMs at that time over-turned the ban and Sam was able to play again within a few hours of his ban. Since then, I've seen a noticeable change in the player. His posts on the board (which I believe to reflect his general attitude toward the game and towards the staff and fellow players) is far more disrespectful, verging on insulting a lot of the time. This time, as far as I can see, he revealed GM characters, which is indeed an offense that one can be banned for.

However, a problem arises. As there are no definite time periods for a ban, it is difficult to decide on how long he should be banned for. A ban of two weeks or so is definitely warranted, but an indefinite ban is certainly unfair and would be verging on power-abuse on the part of whoever it is that banned him.

Concluding: Yes, a ban is necessary, but for only two weeks or so. Any longer, and I'd be shooting off a mail to GM Abuse.

Alli Zelos · Post by **Alli Zelos** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:58 pm

Concluding: Yes, a ban is necessary, but for only two weeks or so. Any longer, and I'd be shooting off a mail to GM Abuse.

-.- I agree.

To me, the accusations just don't add up to a life-long ban.

-real world-
If you make fun of a cop, don't take them seriously, don't have a clean record, and insult people alot... do you get a life sentence in prison?

This might not be -that- serious, but it's close to the same thing.

...and maybe this isn't a democracy, but who says rebellion? King or people?

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:03 pm

I have to agree, something is bound to happen in that situation in real life. Now that things have calmed down a bit, the perma ban does seem a little extencive. Though I understand why the GM he was talking to impossed that. He was getting angry and irritated. Don't people tend to say things they don't mean when they are angry? I know I have done it, we all are guilty of it.

He has to understand the error of his ways. But a death scentance never solves anything except for treason or loss of a life. Maybe give him the nice Christmas gift of having Illa once more? Say in about a week?

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:08 pm

Alli Zelos wrote:
Concluding: Yes, a ban is necessary, but for only two weeks or so. Any longer, and I'd be shooting off a mail to GM Abuse.
-.- I agree.

To me, the accusations just don't add up to a life-long ban.

-real world-
If you make fun of a cop, don't take them seriously, don't have a clean record, and insult people alot... do you get a life sentence in prison?

This might not be -that- serious, but it's close to the same thing.

...and maybe this isn't a democracy, but who says rebellion? King or people?

Yes, I am hijacking the thread..

In real life in the US (if that's where you are from) some states apply the so called "three strikes" policy which in effect give you a lenghty prison term if you have committed three or more felonies. That's the comparable sitiuation, really.

Not that I approve banning him for life, though. Two to four weeks should be sufficient, considering that he apologised. It's enough time for him to review the sitiuation and consider how he will act next time. If this doesn't work, then next time increase the scale to two-four months and if that doesn't work, increase it again to years.

Life is an overkill, though. It should be reserved for something really godawful, not for multiple minor repeated offences.

Alli Zelos · Post by **Alli Zelos** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:18 pm

I say you try to get in the Christmas spirit and un-ban it on Christmas!!

( or New Years..)

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:53 am

Japheth wrote:This time, as far as I can see, he revealed GM characters, which is indeed an offense that one can be banned for.[/color]

Nitram is no gm! Zip, zero, nada, no doubt about it.

http://illarion.org/illarion/us_rules.php#2 wrote: The Game masters' privacy is respected. Their other characters will not be named unless specifically requested by the GM him or herself.
top

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:31 am

I implore you explore all the people you meet.