Fighting System - Kampf System

[Cain Freemont]

Arameh, there's no reason to be a jerk about it. Let me break it down a bit.

Please give the system a try and my some feedback.

He did. Told Nitram what he thought afterwards. So far so good.

If it is much worser then before, i have a huge "undo" Button

He seems to think it is worse and its perfectly understandable that he wants it back the way it was. Not all changes are good. And this one sure sounds much worse (I have yet to try it, so I won't just say its bad). I just think you don't have to be so rude, Arameh.

[Retlak]

He is not being rude, the system is not bad for everyone you know, we are just fed up of people who give no critisism on WHAT exactly is bad and instead of UNDO UNDO how about something that will actually help the system, like more damage done for instance? or mummy attack power lessened.

[Ku 'Agor]

I wish to know why the monsters are so much stronger. What changed in the calculations to increase their power, increase their dodge, and make real chars so useless agaisnt them?

[Nitram]

Just to let you know. Its a fact, that this system will be used somewhen.

I worked on it for weeks, but alone you just can't test it really.

I found more bugs and unbalanced stuff in the last hours then in the weeks before.

I know it was worse, but it can't become worser then throwing tomatos.

So i will let it stay for now.

Feel free to write me clear proposals what should be balanced in which way, with an pm.

Nitram

[Korm Kormsen]

pigslaughter

i just had my char kill five pigs.
he needed between 12 and 21 "bloodspraying" hits for each pig.

he used a longaxe of the same quality(! - leaving the good one at home) as he had used before the new system.

before he needed an average 2 hits per pig.

so i suppose, the pigs are about eight times more resistant, than they were before.

i would like to suggest, to make them only four times as hard, than before.

anyhow, leather, entrails and pork will become more expensive.
and everything made of those materials as well.

do the mummies and sceletons have the same rise in resistance?
the moskitos aparently have. they sucked my tomato-fighter about half emty of his blood, with just four attacks.

korm

[Taliss Kazzxs]

Alright well i did a little play testing and heres what i have come up with.

My skills of any importance are concussion(dark green)Parry (dark green) Tactics (dark green) and dodge being my best is (a nice neon green im sure not far from yellow).

Iv noticed as already mentioned pigs take a bit longer to kill but only about 10 hits with a decent weapon, i tihink this is pretty good myself there a little stronger but not to much.

with mummies they actually dont seem to take many more hits than pigs with decent a weapon. for defense with mummies i dont seem to doge at all in steel, leathers or even naked but i did doge when holding no weapon and thats the only time. i seem to parry every time holding a staff but holding no weapon and just a shield i dodge. It seems that as long as i hold a weapon of some kind in one hand or in both i parry basicly everything mummies throw holding daggers, and sword, all of which i tried with shield and withought shield.

iv havnt tried skeletons yet but i hope this play test helps in some way.

[Arameh]

Holding 1 or 2 shields without weapons, and you see your character 'dodge' is a glitch, your character can actually parry as much as he is supposed to, its just the graphic and sound who are different, but the technical isnt affected.

[Garett Gwenour]

Okay, the problem at this point in time looks to me that starting a fighter will be near impossible. Dodge is no longer as effective as it used to be and parry is a primary skill. However, even my character which has ample parry and dodge cannot finish off 2 undead without running away. I get hit too much and cannot dodge or parry the majority of hits from undead.

So, my summary is the new fighting system isn't as noobie friendly as the previous one.

[Ku 'Agor]

Okay, the problem at this point in time looks to me that starting a fighter will be near impossible. Dodge is no longer as effective as it used to be and parry is a primary skill. However, even my character which has ample parry and dodge cannot finish off 2 undead without running away. I get hit too much and cannot dodge or parry the majority of hits from undead.

So, my summary is the new fighting system isn't as noobie friendly as the previous one.

It isn't fucking demigod friendly either. That dragon that attacked town could of easily been killed by two rabbits and a serinjah mummy.

I don't see how the monsters are so strong now. They NEED to be weakened to the same equivilant of what they were in the past.

[Gort Greegog]

Did anyone read Nitters post about how we do less damage. I don't belive he said mosters are stronger. He said they also do less damage.

@Nitram-Did you make the differance in damage between now and befor this update more for players than monsters?

Is magic damage also lessened. If not a mage would be almost unbeatable.

[Nalzaxx]

.....

Have people STILL not learnt how to combat mages, and insist on using OOC tactics to further weaken them?

[Lance Thunnigan]

I think that the Magic system is fine, and should remain the way it is now. The constant bitching on this particular area of the game angers me sometimes. If you don't want to take the time to learn to properly combat a mage, or just take the fucking time to create a character, RP decently and show you deserve the runes IG, then stop bitching.

The Magic system has been weakened many times, and changed. Now there are cool-down times, waiting times before spells, and the like. Which could easily give warriors two to three hits in on them.

[The Wanderer]

Ich habe brav und hart gefochten, mit zahlenlosen Wesen und welchen mit Nummern über dem Kopf und biologischer Intelligenz dahinter.

Offen gestanden mag ich den neuen Kampf insofern sehr, da er sehr dynamisch ist: Er wirkt flüssiger, hektischer und "gleichmäßiger". Das Hau-drauf-und-tot-Spielchen hat insofern ein Ende. Duelle sind ausgewogener, aber auch langwieriger.

Ob die Schweine nun gleich zu Heavy-Metall-Dämonenschweinen mutieren müssen, steht natürlich außer Frage. (Wäre aber eine nette Idee für Wildschweine in den Wäldern. )
Ein paar Schläge mit einem Zweihänder sollten aber bitte jedes Wald- und Wiesenhausvieh zur Strecke bringen können. Dazu gehört wohl kein kämpferisches Geschick.

Eine sehr große Änderung ist mir bei den Skeletten mit Schlagwaffen aufgefallen: Ihr Schaden an meinem Char fiel (trotz gleicher durchschnittlicher Trefferzahl wie sonst auch) derart gering aus, dass der Lebensbalken sich nicht rührte und sofort aus dem Nahrungsvorrat kompensiert wurde. Früher waren mit einem guten Treffer des knochigen Unholds gleich 20-30% der Energie flöten. Das scheint mir eine sehr arge Änderung zu sein (die mich nicht weiter stört, verständlicherweise).

Die Mumien kämpfen neuerdings sehr viel adäquater: Paraden und Ausweichmanöver wie Profis. Ist das für Anfänger handhabbar? Mein Söldner benötigt für jede Mumie effektiv nun das Doppelte an Zeit. Ich dachte, die höhere Kampfgeschwindigkeit und die höhere erforderliche Trefferzahl würden sich in etwa aufheben!?

Da mich ein nummeriertes Skelett mit Magie verkohlt hat, mache ich an dieser Stelle noch keine Aussage zum Kampfsystem im Vergleich zum Magiesystem.

Hoffe, es hilft irgendwie weiter...

[Arameh]

Nitram just made the system so it takes what, 6 hits from a good fighter to kill an unarmored mage? Of course magic needs to be changed accordingly, it isnt something to even debate on .

@lance : Hmm, no "Let fighting be totally useless agaisnt magic, and if youre not happy, make a mage" really is not a logical thing to tell

[Lance Thunnigan]

Nitram just made the system so it takes what, 6 hits from a good fighter to kill an unarmored mage? Of course magic needs to be changed accordingly, it isnt something to even debate on .

@lance : Hmm, no "Let fighting be totally useless agaisnt magic, and if youre not happy, make a mage" really is not a logical thing to tell

Ok, from what you stated above you contradicted yourself. If a good fighter like say Arameh can down a Mage in 6 hits, when they could easily deal 3 during cool-down times and casting waiting-times, then WTF are you talking about?

[Garett Gwenour]

It used to take 3 hits. Now it will take 6 or more hits. Yet the mage cool down hasn't been changed accordingly to handle the weakened fighting system. That is what Arameh is saying.

[Arameh]

Hm? 6 hits is pretty long you know, it takes much less time than this to down any fighter from a fair mage. If it takes 6 hits the mage just needs to stand where he/she is while getting hit and cast anyway, a good mage woulnt have any trouble doing that. ANd I said 6 hits, thats for a very good fighter, some people just complained they killed pigs in over 12 hits with average skills, mages most of the time are more resillient than pigs, that would make mages better than warriors at close range . But anyway, what are you complaining about yet, the fighting system is FAR from being finished, so just wait until it is before crying cause someone mentionned that magic could as well be changed accordingly to the fighting system eh?

[Nalzaxx]

You are moaning because you can't beat a mage.

Well of course you can't on your own. Its like saying. OMG This demon is too strong. My fairy can't kill it with a stick. Weaken the demon! OMG its so unfair they can pwn me cause we dont have the sense to work out a tactic against it.

Just because your fighter can't beat a mage doesn't mean they're overpowered. Seriously, you are far too used to winning. As has always been the case, and should be. Get two fighters on a mage, and they're skrewed.

With the exception of course of exceptionally skilled or pushed mages.

[Gort Greegog]

After teseting mele fighting I do think we should do a bit more damage. I used to be able to kill a mummy in 2-4 hits(2-3 if they didn't dodge or parry) now it is more like 15-17. I have also noticed mummies parry and dodge quite well against Gort. I CAN however kill as many as I want without worrying about dieing. Maybe if a play could do a bit more damage the system would be very good.

Like Sam said earlyer.

So, my summary is the new fighting system isn't as noobie friendly as the previous one.

I must agree.

[Gort Greegog]

You are moaning because you can't beat a mage.

Well of course you can't on your own. Its like saying. OMG This demon is too strong. My fairy can't kill it with a stick. Weaken the demon! OMG its so unfair they can pwn me cause we dont have the sense to work out a tactic against it.

Just because your fighter can't beat a mage doesn't mean they're overpowered. Seriously, you are far too used to winning. As has always been the case, and should be. Get two fighters on a mage, and they're skrewed.

With the exception of course of exceptionally skilled or pushed mages.

Hm I disagree. I recall once when Samantha killed 4 or 5 people with one spell. A flame wall. We all died. I also remember when she killed Gort and Ku within ten seconds about two or three weeks ago. Thats two fighters and we had no chance then. Now if we had to hit her 15 times we would be screwed without doubt

[Ku 'Agor]

Gort and Ku within ten seconds about two or three weeks ago.

Wrong. She killed gort with a single ice block, then I kicked her ass in three hits and then she revived from the cross and killed us both.

[Nalzaxx]

Samantha is the Archmagess of the island of Gobiath. The most power and skilled player mage on the island. With all the trinkets to go with it.

In another game, she wouldn't summon a flame wall, she would be turning the skies crimson with fire and making the sea's boil. A mage like that has the power to alter the world drastically. Killing some grunts shouldn't really be a problem.

[Ku 'Agor]

Killing some grunts shouldn't really be a problem.

I dislike you.

[Arameh]

Okay, first im not the one moaning here, I was just stating that we shoulnt think about the magic system before the fighting one is finished.

Second, sorry for the language, but can we please, stop that fucking dumb excuse that being 2 on 1 would win? Of course 2 fighters on one mage should win (even tho im not even sure if they would right now), but 2 mages on one fighter would win too, and 2 fighter agaisnt 1 would too, what is the point here? It means "if you wish to have a chance agaisnt a mage then you got to find a stupid buddy that will get PKEd by magic while you kill the mage" and thats total crap, seriously we cant adjust the system about the number of characters needed or make battle tactics this way.

[Garett Gwenour]

Lets not over play Samantha's role here. SHe is a minor mage stuck on an even more minor island

she is not a goddess.

[Garett Gwenour]

Perhaps now that dodge plays a lesser role in combat, it can be set that dodge effects you in avoiding spells, as well as arrows.

[Gort Greegog]

Im not completely shur what you want Arameh. We need to work on all aspects of the game if we want people to play, not just one.

I know Nitram is working his ass off with this fighting system stuff and I admire him for it.

Like I saids the system need to be mroe newb friendly and players need to do a bit more damage.

If anyone else has more magic comments please post them in the magic discussion forum as I will if I have any more. Nitram posted this for input not a bunch of mornons(like me) flaming.

[Arameh]

I meant that the magic system woulnt be changed accordingly to the fighting system before the fighting system is finished.

[Aristeaus]

Samantha is the Archmagess of the island of Gobiath. The most power and skilled player mage on the island. With all the trinkets to go with it.

In another game, she wouldn't summon a flame wall, she would be turning the skies crimson with fire and making the sea's boil. A mage like that has the power to alter the world drastically. Killing some grunts shouldn't really be a problem.

Is this the same Samantha who complained about pushed characters?

Back to the thread i like most the changes, but for some reason it seems the wearing no armour can be quite effective?

[Fooser]

I blame Aristeaus.