Newbie treatment / Newbiebehandlung

Deinarious · Post by **Deinarious** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:30 am

Pendar! It's me, Jikken!

...

Anyways...is RPing that you are too busy or that you don't know bannable in concern with dealing with newbies? I know I posted in the "A line in the sand" topic, but I'm also an arrogant son of a bitch somedays...

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:32 pm

Pendar wrote: That is how many serious rp games operate, i see no reason illarion could not attempt to emulate that.
Brian

Because, unlike many RP games out there, Illarion has a relatively minute player-base. Doing things like that will result in many players leaving or being banned, thus reducing the population even further. Certainly, if you want just the awesome, incredible people who know and do everything according to how the staff seems to want everything to be done, then go for that idea.

What I don't get is - Whenever Damien is against something, the word "Ban" appears more often than not.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:27 pm

exchange banable for frowned upon and see if the idea makes more sense. As about the only way to actually abuse a new player is OOCLY, other wise one would suspect people keep strictly IC with regards to how they interact with players new or old.
Simply i was struck by the thought that a mature irc room is usually good for a com, new players could get help and make some ooc ties in the community and annoying ((SPAM)) would be cut down?

As far as free rpgs go, those that expect a strict rp enviroment tend to have smaller player bases in my expierence. Loose rp/ooc mush's tend to have far more players. Last i was here Illarion was not a mush but a game that attempted to promote a seriouse and strictly IC enviroment.
Brian

Mush= Multi user shared halucination. Characteristic of places like tibia or furcadia, where role play and ooc chatter are equally accepted and rp simply remains -encouraged-

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:19 pm

Since I first joined Illarion, the environment has never been more "serious" for any extended period of time than it has been lately. There's always been OOC ingame and no matter how many people whine and complain about properly tagged OOC, it'll still be there. If the staff wants to begin banning players for OOC, then fine. They will have to live with losing even more players, something I really question as to whether or not they care about at times (Random outbursts of "ban ban ban ban" really doesn't make things look any better).

martin · Post by **martin** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:31 pm

Where did that bann-for-ooc-thing came up?
I thought it was about noobism?

Martin

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:56 pm

Okay after reading the first page.. ( i did not read second page someone have said this)

First of all GMS dont ban because its fun or anything.

Please look to this ex.

Bad player likely to get banned by the new rules:

New Player: I am new to this game.
You:What game?
You:((read the manual noob))
New player: How do you move?
You: (( read the manual))
New Player: I did read the manual but can you just tell me how to move?
You:(( That was occ!))
New Player: What is occ?
Excetera...
* i am not promoting new bees to play without reading the manual

Good Player:

New Player: I am new to this game.
#me walks up to the x=name (new player)
You:(( okay first of all you cannot say things like that press F1 for help))
You:(( I am role playing with someone right now please ask anyone else for help)) or you say(( I will help you in a few minutes))
New Player:oh thanks I will wait
You:(( here first lesson use quotes ok when talking I will explain later))
<If you see someone walking>
You:Hey x=name come here.
You: (( can you help this new bee here?))
Them:((sure))
<You go back to your rp>

And please consider this a noob you yell at today might a person you rp frequently with some time later. If you want more players to play with more than 16 or 20 at a time then stop chasing New Bees.

PS everyone has insulted new bees one time or another. let us all stop this from now on

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:54 pm

We will from now on log in to test from time to time. Players behaving like a. and b. will be banned.

The suggestion of banning for OOC chatter was simply a suggestion that if one cut out ooc IG and made a place to seek begginer advice available/knowen.Then the issue of being mean to noobs would be solved and OOC solved.
So if one was going to do to ban people for conduct IG may as well make it OOC talk, at least that can be made into a firm rule for people to follow.

Any way actual point was instead of spending time attempting to police increaseing awareness of IRC as a medium to seek help instead of doing so in game could solved 90% of the issue.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:48 pm

Can I just say. I saw 2 things today. 1 apparently you can come from asia now in illa (???)

William Elderberry: ((there's no asia in illarion))
Lance Thunnigan: (Sorry bucko's, but there aren't 'Asians' IG in Illarion. there are already set races of humans.)
Someone (1014380317): ((there is now, its accepted by GMs ))

And 2. I saw someone with this name.

w:William Elderberry: (9the gms allowed that?))
w:Wan Kerr: (( no, i am testing what players react to these things ))

What would my parents think if they came into the room and saw that? I really don't want to rp with someone called that. I don't see why it's allowed. How could you allow Wanker as a name???

Fjaen Greybone · Post by **Fjaen Greybone** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:50 pm

Because they're 'expanding.'

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:51 pm

I already reported it to Nitram.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:00 am

Yes, Now i get to play as Wun Kerr, You spoil sports.

Edit: @Alex: We used #me seems asian as an almost ooc styled message for the PLAYER to understand why they look like they do.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:23 pm

"asian" is completely OOC. You can read the human races descriptions and use "#me seems to be of Serinjah/Albarian/Norodaj/salkamaerian/Gynkese origin"

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:51 pm

um, i dont think it is bad to use "asian" in a #me. the #me is in the first not for your char, more for the player. it is okay to write "#me looks asian", since it isnt asian for your char but for the player so that he knows it.

if it helps you to make the player more clear how the char looks or when he is doing something i think something from our time or world is not bad rp.

just like #me wields a katana like sword, or #me dances a flamengo like dance.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:59 pm

Yeah, agree, and it was decided in a topic a while ago that we could use the word asian in a #me anyway.

Delakaniam · Post by **Delakaniam** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:33 am

Just a side note on the smaller sub-topic.

If that's the case, though, how would you consider it if there was a #me action such as, #me is a only a baby dragon, but already nearly the size of a small car.

??

Sorry, I had actually just thought about this exact notion a few months ago, but never mentioned it (^^) . I'm just curious to know what the opinion is as far as #me actions that refer to things from "our world."

And as for the new name system. CRIMINY, people, just suck it up and give it a damn try XD !! I know this new system is practically an open gate to all sorts of dumb, illogical, or otherwise horribly chosen names. But I think the bigger problem is that we are sooooo stagnant here in Illarion. I dunno if anyone else thinks this way specifically, but I always feel like we're too tentative and scurred to make a move and step outside the circle in the dirt that we've drawn around ourselves. Geexas, if you think about it, it's like we're an in-breeding community of roleplay (O_o) . We're just RP-ing with the same each-others that we all know OOC already. The community hardly ever expands. The community actually gets more tight-knit, and not in a good way that I see. Tight-knit like knotted yarn that has been under kitty claws for a little too long now.

So you're probably thinking, "De'am.... dubya tee eff does this have to do with the name system?"

It has to do with the fact that I feel like we keep the devs in a little area marked off with a circling piece of string. Every time the devs start seeing an idea in the distance that looks like it could be worth a try and take a small step outside our comfort zone, we crouch down around them and snarl and bare our teeth like panthers until they're forced to retreat again.

Do you have a better idea for a smoother account system? Well, say it. Not to be ugly, but do something or shut up. Hundreds of other online RPGs have thousands of players who often have even worse "rules and regulations" than we do. As Martin frequently mentions, why is it that none of those players complain? Inversely, why do we complain? I really mean this in a practical way. Does it have to do with the fact that we are a 100% RP game or something? Is that a feature that, perhaps from observing how our own community is and has become, really an impractical impossibility for an MMORPG?

Please give the name system a chance. They've already whittled out a large number of dumb names just by programming some name rules in. The system can't be perfect. Or, alternatively, I'm sure you can volunteer any of your own gaming time to sit at the reception window to the incoming submitted names and sort through them by hand yourself. That would probably fix everything regarding this, lords 'n ladies.

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:57 am

did everyone like ignore mine??

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:09 am

I'm not disagreeing with you, De'am, but I would like to point out, to your last comment... many people DO volunteer and are basically told 'thanks but no thanks'. I volunteered to help with account and name applications LONG ago, back when Aegohl was still a GM, and nothing ever came of it. I have *repeatedly* told devs and GMs and anyone else who might listen that I would be happy to do *any* scutwork I am capable of, and have only recently had a few of them take me up on it.

So as long as volunteers are being ignored and/or rejected, that just isn't a valid argument.

Delakaniam · Post by **Delakaniam** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:24 am

Point taken =) .

Maliss · Post by **Maliss** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:04 am

I keep coming back and posting even though i swore of doing so for months.
How ever i will always think back on illarion fondly and really it is great to see it thrive and expand.

Is that a feature that, perhaps from observing how our own community is and has become, really an impractical impossibility for an MMORPG?

100% zero tolerance mmorpgs exist, especially but not limited to ultima online shards so it can be done.

My experience of the illarion was a slow decline in the quality of rp that ultimately lead to me opting to leave. A lot of people misread my make ooc banable post....
The idea of this post was to ban people for being -mean- to newb players, next week it will be excessive use of ooc talk. Illarion players never cease to complain on these forums. RP atmosphere and ooc being to often bemoaned topic.
The point of that post was don’t try and enforce X-y behavior to new players in game, instead find a way to immerse them in the community, find a way to expose them to the game information.
If Illarions direction is actually 100% role play environment that wishes to remain full of intrigue and danger, then yes do away with ooc discussion IG. It has no place in such setting...

Pick a direction and stick to it and in doing do find ways to make it work. A game doesn’t work with inactive gms, the change in illarion when we had the undead wars and gms operateing often IG and the time after when the GM activity was minimal was HUGE. By that same token GM's should be holding new players hand and indeed they cannot be online 24/7 but if 3 gms spent 2 hours each daily. In peak times most new players would be seen and aided as required.
By the same token only GMs can maintain quality in game, and i may be wrong but the game began to feel less rp orientated and certainly in the year i was here went from serious rp to very relaxed.
Sub par rp becoming at first -allowed- then an accepted norm...

So the points, if you want a serious roleplaying game that standard has to come from the staff and be enforced. A serious rping environment requires some maturity from players, if people cannot take the 10 minutes to read about the gods and basic controls. Then it is little wonder they are prone to idiocy...
Indeed i often suggested a questionaire on the gods should be standard with applications.

If the game thrives on a relaxed rp mood, and semi IC characters thats great. How ever if the maturity level of a community is allowed to slip then one should not be surprised if the general habits such a noob h8ting of less mature games, Tibia,Runescape etc etc creep in to illarion.

In closeing, we will log as new characters and BAN YOU if you aren’t being nice is just punitive. If you find a new player in game in need of help and find your character or self unable to aid them direct them to the forums and #gm us there name we will do our best to log in and help them. Seems a more mature move...

Much as i suggested very limited GM chars with only a !goto command so that veteran/trusted players could help new players IG. All of Illarion is on msn,
me:Oh damn im in some rp i cant break but Jada Thundercrotch cant work a hammer and is (( HELPZOR I CANT MINE)) spamming the screen.

Helpful vet: Ah im one of illarion's player helpers, i am just killing bandits i will log in now with my purple robe and and take him aside and explain.
One of many proactive solutions that don’t cause conflict but instead achieve something proactive. Illarion caps out at 30 players?
It is not as if there are 1k players online, many servers manage to deal with small numbers IG very personably.....
Brian/Pendar

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:57 am

NirAntae wrote:So as long as volunteers are being ignored and/or rejected, that just isn't a valid argument.

I don't think so.
Your argument would be valid if we dropped the account system because it was too much work for us to read through all the applications.

That was, however, NOT the reason.

Martin

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:56 am

I realize that, Martin.

That was actually the point *I* was making, lol.

De'am's 'parting shot' made it sound like the reason the account system was done away with was because of the effort-to-reward ratio, or that someone volunteering time would have kept it in place. My point was that if volunteers are not being taken advantage of, then chances are very good that the manpower required had nothing to do with the decision to remove the account system.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:08 am

Volunteers are being taken advantage of -- in areas where they're needed.
However, these areas are highly technical ones, such as programming, scripting or graphics design.

However, this is still not the point. The point is that technically, Illarion reached a level that does not fit the number of actual players. There's no relation between the technical advancement and the advancement of players playing the game. It's NOT that we'd need help with accounts or stories or something like that. It's not that we want more people helping us. It's the technical level of the game that is far beyond what is indicated by online player numbers.

Martin

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:13 am

i am very astonished.

to each and every role player the first law of role playing should be known.

"the dungeon Master is allways right!"

the second law is: "the player has the right, to quit the group, if he does not like it."

so whats here? we got a small group of persons, who build and maintain a role play world.

and a lot of the guests, who use this world for free are bitching around at everything the worldmasters and owners do.

so my suggestion to the staff would be: "just do your thing! - and ignore the nagging."

korm

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:15 am

I have another law for you.

"The dungeon master is often a douche."

The staff are not infallible gods like you seem to treat them. Neither are they village idiots, except for a select few who I will not name here. They do what they think is best for the game. With this new system, they have stated that if it doesn't work, they can just go back. We'll try it for now.

Edit: Also, we need bitching, but in the form of constructive criticism. Us? We just bitch and whine constantly. Some of us more than others.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:22 am

donal,

i am afraid, you have to rephrase.

looking up "douche", i found only "shower".

i did not catch your meaning.

korm

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:22 am

Simply consider it to be a derogatary term.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:34 am

finally understood your point.
(after looking up "derogatary")

and i dont agree.

i did not want to express, that staff/DMs are ifallible.
but they own the ball. so they decide, which game is played.

to both, including xalliar,

"constructive" (i didnt have to look this one up) is the magic word.
in this thread alone, do you see much constructive posts?

korm

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:40 am

The GM is not always right. That would mean that there's more than just one truth, which is not what I believe.

I don't get the point because noone complained about our "new way" yet, so...

Martin

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:44 am

martin,

now you contradicted yourself! by posting us two truths!

)

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:25 pm

I can see a problem... how many people do you think bother reading the rules and regulations of a game? Most of us don't even read the Terms and Conditions of our OS...

I mean, if we're going to allow every one and their dog to create an account instantly, how many will bother reading the rules? Or moonsilver for that matter?

I remember that I spent the time waiting for my account to be accepted by reading moonsilver, and I never got through reading all of it till recently (

)

My point is, that if you show them we have an account system, then people will take the game's rules a bit more seriously.

My two cents...