Newbie treatment / Newbiebehandlung

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:29 am

Lately, a few staff members entered the game with new characters, pretending to be newbies.
Here a list of what happened:

a. Some players reacted BAD to them, behaving unfriendly, ignoring them
b. Some players reacted BAD to them, behaving like "I am the elitary RPer and you aren't worth being here at all, leave the game and uninstall the client"
c. Some players told them "you can get help at the castle" but of course noone was there.

That has to change somewhat. We will from now on log in to test from time to time. Players behaving like a. and b. will be banned.
Edit : Option c, telling a newbie where he could get help, of course is okay.

----

Kürzlich sind einige Staffmitglieder mit neuen Chars eingeloggt und gaben vor, Newbies zu sein. Hier eine Kurze Zusammenfassung dessen, was passierte :

a. Einige Spieler benahmen sich unfreundlich oder ignorierten die Newbies.
b. Einige Spieler führten sich wie "Elite-Rollenspieler" auf, die den Newbies sagten, sie gehörten eh nicht nach illa und sollten sich verpissen
c. Einige Spieler sagten ihnen, sie würden bei der Burg wen finden der ihnen hilft, wo natürlich zu dem Zeitpunkt niemand war.

Dieses Verhalten muß geändert werden. Staffmitglieder werden das in Zukunft öfter testen. Spieler, die sich nach a. und b. verhalten, werden gebannt.
Edit: Natürlich ist die dritte Verhaltensweise c., dem Newbie zu verraten wo er Hilfe bekommen kann, völlig in Ordnung !

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:32 am

In der DDR nannte man das Stasi.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:41 am

If rude players IG don't scare people away, bullshit like this will finish the job.

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:43 am

Der Zweck heiligt meiner Meinung nach nicht die Mittel.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:59 am

ja, wirklich schade, dass die GMs zu solchen mitteln greifen muessen um neue zu schuetzen....

yeah, really a pity, that the GM's have to think about such methods to protect newbees....

i m a newebee, but i already learned, that in illarion there are good and bad role players, plus "club" roleplayers, who dont like to be disturbed by commoners.

ich bin ein neuer, aber ich habe schon gelernt, dass es hier gute und schlechte rollenspieler gibt, plus "vereins-" rollenspieler, die sich nicht gerne vom fussvolk stoeren lassen.

gruss,korm

Fjaen Greybone · Post by **Fjaen Greybone** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:01 am

Ok, so. Let me get this shit straight. IF we're RPing with someone else, and we don't feel like helping them, we will be banned? Probably your idea too, and it is bullshit. We, only by choice, should have to help another player. If they don't know what F1 is, I would tell them, if they didn't read it all, I would say read it again and be done with it. Banning players who don't want to help, is bullshit because you are FORCING us to help all new players that enter the game now.

As I said to Azuros, I'm happy to help new players, but being forced to for fear of getting banned is bull.
~Eric

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:07 am

Not to mention it makes absolutely no sense at all. If you look at the numbers:

1) Veteran player might be rude, the newbie MIGHT (not even sure if they will) leave. So at the bare minimum you have one person. And a decent chance that you'll have two.

2) Veteran player is rude to a newbie. The newbie gets upset and leaves. The next day a GM finds out (or they do their uber undercover shit IG) and they ban them. You now have 0 players out of the situation.

And the last time I checked 2 >>> 0

Actually, I have a better idea. To further divert your attention from doing something constructive, I say you should start going through game logs, as far back as they go, and you can find all the situations where someone was possibly rude to a newbie and ban them. Because you seem so eager to do that all the time (about 99% of what people do you seem to want to make a bannable offense

) Or perhaps this is a present to the players from you? Will you no longer do events that mass PK players, with the only intent they run away? If so, thank you.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:10 am

Well, ignoring them is one thing but insulting them and instructing them to quit is another.

Fjaen Greybone · Post by **Fjaen Greybone** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:12 am

Cliu, I'm sorry but I haven't seen it happen yet.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:14 am

b. Some players reacted BAD to them, behaving like "I am the elitary RPer and you aren't worth being here at all, leave the game and uninstall the client"

I would have to say, banning or even warning someone ignoring might be a bit extreme. Though, for "b", something should be done.

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:15 am

Fjaen Greybone wrote:Cliu, I'm sorry but I haven't seen it happen yet.

That has to change somewhat. We will from now on log in to test from time to time. Players behaving like a. and b. will be banned.

Goes to tell all the newbs to goto the Castle.

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:16 am

Cliu Beothach wrote:
b. Some players reacted BAD to them, behaving like "I am the elitary RPer and you aren't worth being here at all, leave the game and uninstall the client"
I would have to say, banning or even warning someone ignoring might be a bit extreme. Though, for "b", something should be done.

You can't act like that anyway. You have to actually TELL them that.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:17 am

Well, ignoring them is one thing but insulting them and instructing them to quit is another.

well, you are right. i didnt see it from that side.

so i ll consider myself lucky, for not having been insulted so far...

korm

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:19 am

Lance Thunnigan wrote:
Cliu Beothach wrote:
b. Some players reacted BAD to them, behaving like "I am the elitary RPer and you aren't worth being here at all, leave the game and uninstall the client"
I would have to say, banning or even warning someone ignoring might be a bit extreme. Though, for "b", something should be done.
You can't act like that anyway. You have to actually TELL them that.

So, by simple contextual error from a native german speaker you find fault?

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:20 am

Cliu Beothach wrote:
Lance Thunnigan wrote:
Cliu Beothach wrote: I would have to say, banning or even warning someone ignoring might be a bit extreme. Though, for "b", something should be done.
You can't act like that anyway. You have to actually TELL them that.
So, by simple contextual error from a native german speaker you find fault?

Um, yes? Maybe there's a mistake, maybe there's not. Right now, I'm reading it how it's posted.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

Im prety sure damien your famous for saying, "I dont want to be bothered when i am roleplaying."

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:27 am

FIN.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:31 am

to Garett Gwenour

could you please define role playing?

1) impersonate a certain character in all circunstances, that turn up.

2) impersonate a character with a preselected group of friends, ignoring everybody else.

korm

edit:

a man goes to see a shrink.

"hello doctor, i've got the impression, that everybody is ignoring me."

"next please."

seemingly there are lots of shrinks around.

korm, newbee

Jarod · Post by **Jarod** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:27 am

Helping a new player might actually conflict with someone's RP and I, being such a new player, would certainly not be offended if someone didn't go out of his way to help me. I would actually consider it poor roleplay if that someone did. But that's just me.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:07 am

Exactly

At times players are caught up in roleplay and cant drop it at the spur of a moment. Ive made time for new players, as have many others. But you can enforce people to treat new players IG differently than they would treat others. You can ask them too yes, but not force them.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:14 am

I woulnt find it fair if we get punitions for not helping a n00b, but maybe for being mean to them and discouraging them to play.

Nevas · Post by **Nevas** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:27 am

Damien wrote:Lately, a few staff members entered the game with new characters, pretending to be newbies.

. . .

That has to change somewhat. We will from now on log in to test from time to time. Players behaving like a. and b. will be banned.

I'm sure all of the research you guys have done is solid, but I feel the need to contradict it with my own experiences.

I've been playing the game for about a week and a half, and in this time, I have never come across someone being nasty to me because I was new or didn't know how to do something. On the (admittantly few) occasions in which I've asked how to do something OOC (like, how to use !l), I was promptly and respectfully answered.

I also agree with what the crowd seems to be thinking; banning people because they ignore new players is inappropriate. I might venture so far as to say that that is also an elitist attitude, abiet one at the other end of the spectrum. I would agree wholeheartedly with taking action against players who are outright rude OOC when asked for help by a newcomer, though.

But this is just my two cents. As I said, I've only been around for a week and a half, so my opinions are best taken with a grain of salt or three.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:46 am

*shakes head*

With a little healthy common sense, this can't be so bad; it seems like some people need some lessons in netiquette. Of course, if the GMs go ban-happy for petty reasons, it's a stupid rule, but essentially this is for good or for bad.

I mean, if you don't lay it out that this will get in the way of solid roleplaying, then it won't contradict the game's best attributes.

After all, there is a difference between being an asshole OOC and being an asshole IC.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:21 am

Aristeaus said everything I wanted to say but was too immature to say. Banning people for not taking time out of their day to help out a noob is extreme. Such as, for myself, about 8/10 times I am already helping noobs out becuase I am the governor and they assume I know more about the game then I really down. But that 2/10 times when I get to roleplay and get involved i don't want to drop to explain to somehow how to talk to an npc or how to cut down a tree.

As said, build a noob island that tutors the noobs on doing basic skills. Runescape as an effective tutorial. Instead of punishing players for roleplaying in Illarion, do something where no one gets punished and for certain noobies are given all the lessons they need.

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:34 am

Fjaen Greybone wrote:Ok, so. Let me get this shit straight. IF we're RPing with someone else, and we don't feel like helping them, we will be banned?

No. If you treat them UNFRIENDLY or AGGRESSIVELY you will be banned.

And it's not about ((ooc))-help, like your F1-example.

Martin

Nerian Finera · Post by **Nerian Finera** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:53 am

Gut, ihr wollt Neulinge schützen und besser einführen, wobei ich euch voll und ganz zu stimme. Natürlich müssen Maßnahmen eingeleitet werden, aber der Bann ist derart drastisch, dass damit die Spielergemeinschaft älterer Spieler gefährdet wird.
Natürlich sollte jeder irgendwo den Gutmut aufbringen, jemanden einzuweisen (Beleidigungen gehören sowieso nicht ins Spiel, weder zu Neueren, noch zu Älteren) aber jemanden dazu zwingen, er solle nun sein RP fallen lassen (dass zufällig gerade ziemlich spannend sein könnte), nur um plötzlich mit OOC messages jemandem zu erklären (wie PO stephen schon gesagt hat) Bäume umzuhacken und wie man weiß Gott was herstellt, das sehe ich nicht ein.
Manche wissen sich in so einer Situation einfach nicht anders zu helfen, als die Neulinge zu ignorieren. Nur weil, sie nun in gutes RP verwickelt waren, das durch eine OOC unterhaltung ziemlich ins Schwanken geraten wäre.
Also zusammenfassend: Bann, nein....Einen Spieler darauf ansprechen, und zwar von GM seite, JA! Aber wenn ihr eine größere Spielergemeinschaft wollt, dabei Neue einführt und alte bannt, wegen fehlender Geduld oder fehlenden Gutmutes (oder vielleicht einfach nur, weil sie nen schlechten Tag hatten) ist meiner Meinung nach erst dann angebracht, wenn die Situation eskaliert.
Zwar nur die Meinung eines 14 Jährigen, aber dennoch möchte ich hier meinen Senf dazugeben.

PO Nerian

Alytys Lamar · Post by **Alytys Lamar** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:20 am

Genau das dachte ich auch als ich es las Nerian.

Man ist mitten in einem wichtigen RP und auch die Noobs sind manchmal da sehr rücksichtslos, schließlich können sie auch lesen - gut ich bin selber noch nicht so lange dabei, aber wenn ich innerhalb von 20 Minuten 3 - 4 mal von Fremden angesprochen werde -- ??? Das Rp wird ziemlich zerstört --tut mir echt leid das zu sagen.

Strafe / Verwarnung -- ok alles akzeptiert wenn das Verhalten schlecht war und sicher muß man Neuen helfen aber BANN ?????

Chiara · Post by **Chiara** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:27 am

Ich kann mich der Meinung nur anschliessen. Manche Noobs sind auch sehr sehr penetrant im Nachfragen und ich frage mich ob da nicht vielleicht eine Newbie-Insel etwas bringen würde!?

Nerian Finera · Post by **Nerian Finera** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:38 am

Ich finde es einfach nicht gerecht, von jedem zu erwarten, alles niederzuwerfen und sich plötzlich zum Tutorialerzähler umzukleiden...da muss eine feste Einrichtung her.

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:46 am

Vielleicht habt ihr da was falsch verstanden:
Es geht nicht darum, alles hinzuwerfen und seine Aufmerksamkeit sofort 100% dem newbie zu widmen, sondern darum, nicht total unfreundlich oder aggressiv zu sein.

Wenn ein Newbie zu euch kommt, und ihr grad vertieft seid, und der *freundlich* um *in game* Hilfe fragt, und sich nicht extrem RP-ungerecht benimmt, darf man erwarten, dass er eine freundliche Antwort bekommt und nicht, dass er angefahren, beleidigt oder beschimpft wird, oder?

Martin

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Newbie treatment / Newbiebehandlung

Newbie treatment / Newbiebehandlung

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