Fighting system

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:22 am

I created a new fighter to see how training up from nothing was. I skill capped twice before tactics showed up.

Does the way you face your 'opponent' make a difference? IE, facing them, turned away from them, attacking their front/back/side?

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:24 am

That is what tactics is all about.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:48 am

NirAntae wrote:Does the way you face your 'opponent' make a difference? IE, facing them, turned away from them, attacking their front/back/side?

Yes, it makes a huge difference!

Let me comment on the whole problem of fighting:

As you may have noticed, I made 2 or 3 changes already, trying to tweak everything. This is NOT a final version. It's really difficult to balance it when you have just 2 characters, some monsters and not much time, that's why I need you. I need your experiences, I need your "tests", I need your detailed comments and I need you (constructively) criticising the whole thing. I will read everything and try to do something about it. To do that, I need you to be as detailed as possible and as accurate as possible.

So, here's a question: Are there too few low level monsters for beginner?
Another one: Do you think you hit the skill cap too fast?

Martin

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:55 am

Yesterday, before your final adjustments, I reached the skill cap from fighting two pigs with a horrible elven sword and a rapier. I also reach skill cap from reading two or three books but never reached it in pvp fights.

I will make some more fighting tests when I have time.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:08 am

martin wrote: So, here's a question: Are there too few low level monsters for beginner?
Another one: Do you think you hit the skill cap too fast?

As to question one... there may be *enough*, but the problem mainly lies in accessibility. It will take some experimenting, but I imagine the deer and maybe even the rabbits would be much more enjoyable training-beasties than the pigs. But to find them right now is very dangerous, for low-level fighters, thanks to the wolves and other such things. (As a side note, do any of them fight back at all? It would be nice to learn some dodging on 'safe' things before heading after more dangerous monsters.)

As to question two... Well, yes, at least for beginning fighters. It sounds like you hit it less and less as you gain in skill. Really, it should be the other way around. It should take a long time for beginners, thus letting them learn a lot in a relatively short period of time, and get harder and harder to learn as you progress.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:10 am

I've made pigs significantly weaker now.

Martin

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:21 am

I think I've seen a rabbit fight back once, although that is kind of strange.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:24 am

Adano Eles wrote:I think I've seen a rabbit fight back once, although that is kind of strange.

Impossible, unless it was a GM in disguise.

Martin

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:27 am

I might be wrong on this one. Did not really believe it myself. It surely was no GM.

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:46 am

Youve seen nothing untill you see rabits speak ancient and cast flames!

And yes to many low level monsters. How is one to train parry at a low level? Like NirAntae sort of said... Mummies are to strong with low/no parry. Finding a lone wolf or deer is extreamly dangerous....see the point?

And also! I cap WAY to fast.
I have been expearamenting...more, and I think damage needs a slight increase. Not to much. You can look at Gort's skills and decide but I think 1 min to kill a 5 copper coin weilding skeleton is way to long.

Shadows · Post by **Shadows** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:49 am

Could we have more affect with Agillity in fighting? Maybe with higher agillity you fight faster?

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:50 am

I belive agility already plays a decent role in fighting.

Alexander von Hattingen · Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:35 am

Öhm... ich wollte mal mit meinem Kämpfer ein wenig in die Wildnis mich zurückziehen, um dort eine Kiste zu suchen und da ein wenig abzuhängen. Beim erfolglosen Karte durchsuchen stiess ich auf einen Räuber. War auch alles kein Problem, hatte ja meine gute Rüstung an und zwei einigermaßen gute Zweihänder mit, wir können ja nicht so viel mit uns rumtragen. Dachte damit käme ich in der Wildnis ein wenig über die Runden bis ich eine Kiste gefunden hätte. Der Kampf gegen den Banditen dauerte lang und länger... inzwischen kam aber ein zweiter und ein dritter hinzu! die ich zuvor nichtmal sehen konnte. Nun hatte ich alle drei Banditen vor mir stehen und schlug drauf ein. Erstmal hatte ich Tränen vor lachen in den Augen, weil die mir während des Kampfes das Geld geklaut hatten, dann aber zerbrach der erste Zweihänder. Ich zog mich Stück für Stück zurück, weil zwei weitere schon angeschlichen kamen. Ich brauchte ungefähr 12 Heiltränke um aus dem Schlamassel überhaupt lebend rauszukommen. Ich musste aber irgendwie an denen vorbei, so versuchte ich an denen vorbeizuschleichen. Zu spät, ein Bandit kam bereits. Abschütteln konnte ich ihn nicht, denn er rannte zu schnell. Nun stellte ich mich dem Kampf und griff an. Ein paar Schläge und mein zweiter Zweihänder zog auch ein ins ewige Schwerter-Nirvana. Nun habe ich also eine Reise in die Wälder gemacht, mit vollen Taschen... und stehe nun mittellos mit 15 Heiltränken, 2 Zweihändern weniger, mit erhobenen Fäustchen mitten im Wald, weitab einer Kiste und traue mich weder vor, noch zurück.

Zu den Anfänger Gegnern... wie wäre es denn mit ein wenig Tierchen wie kleine Schlangen oder Ratten. Die können ja nicht so schwer sein.

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:36 am

I think you can get out of a fight too slowly right now (stepped back at about 1/3 maybe little higher against your dragon yesterday and... well didnt work as you know

)

Damage against weaker monsters (pigs, flies, mummies, skells) is alright now in my opinion, haven't testet PvP though.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:52 am

Another one: Do you think you hit the skill cap too fast?

Definatly. As I've written somewhere else, I also think that the MC-points decline too slow to encourage players to stay ingame. In special when you hit the 2nd cap. More detailled thoughts can be found on the internal board - but I'd prefer a sophisticated system (I overheard someone is working on such a system).

Just think about how many skills are involved in fighting: Parry, dodge, tactics and one or two of the attack skills. Also, those skills are used very often each minute. This is such a huge difference to crafting actions where you use one skill just when you click.

Lil test again: Skills on 1, except tacticts on 50, fighting one monster #1: After 250 seconds I hit the first cap, levelling up twice. That means I can spend ~5% of the ingame time fighting one on one. Or... just log out. By the way, the monster didn't die in this time and my character was not hurt at all, the healing rate was higher than the damage the monster dealt.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:06 pm

Is there a way to adjust how quickly a *certain skill* makes you hit cap? So that the fighting skills don't add as much to the total as, say, the crafting skills, evening them out in the end. A way to compensate for there being so many skill used in fighting? Or, perhaps, have a seperate skill cap for each skill, instead of a combined pool?

I remember sitting for hours under the cherry tree training carpentry; and trust me, some of the best RP I have had in this game came while busily carving things. But with fighting, you can only train for a few minutes before you cap.

Thariel Feuersturm · Post by **Thariel Feuersturm** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:10 pm

nebenbei bemerkt: kann es sein, dass es wieder zu viele Mosnter auf einem Punkt gibt? Ich komme überhaupt nicht mehr weg...

martin · Post by **martin** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:46 pm

NirAntae wrote:Is there a way to adjust how quickly a *certain skill* makes you hit cap?

Yes. I adjusted that a little already today (lowered the value for fighting), but I believe it's not active in game yet (I need to reload that table).

Martin

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:52 pm

NirAntae is correct about the lack of roleplay in fighting though, I really enjoy how much stronger the monsters are now though, it puts a little thrill into fighting again and creates RP opportunities simply by forcing you into groups.

However the problem seems to be with the cap, no-one (myself included) wants to go exploring a crypt or adventuring or any other fighting related RP if they capped out about 20 mins ago. Everyone waits around the shop for a further 40 minutes before even thinking about doing more fighting related RP.

It would be great if we could continue learning constantly while on an adventure, but of course this opens itself wide open to abuse.

Perhaps if instead of reaching a cap and not being able to learn ANYTHING more, coming closer to the cap means you merely learn at a slower rate. Afterall when at college after an hour in class you'd still continue learning, but you wouldn't learn as much or as well.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:12 pm

Nalzaxx wrote:However the problem seems to be with the cap

What about "I have changed that" did you not understand?
Are we going to repeat everything a million times now?

Martin

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:15 pm

You did?

My bad then, sorry.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:52 pm

martin wrote:
NirAntae wrote:Is there a way to adjust how quickly a *certain skill* makes you hit cap?
Yes. I adjusted that a little already today (lowered the value for fighting), but I believe it's not active in game yet (I need to reload that table).

Martin

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Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:57 pm

Something strange I noticed today: When fighting a pig with the same weapons (elven sword and rapier) only the latter seemed to attack half of the time. At least I only got attack icons and sounds for piercing weapons. Is this intentional? My piercing skill is much lower then the slashing.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:50 pm

I tested rapier and daggers on pigs. a medium skill takes around 8 slashes to kill a pig with a rapier, or a dagger. thats okay for me. it is very quick

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:57 pm

I'm still taking around 30 hits to kill a pig, with slightly blueish green concussion weapons. But, my weapon is not that great at the moment, so that may have something to do with it.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:58 pm

Mines Light green and it takes around 12 hits. But i do use crappy weapons ^^ So that could be it.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:43 pm

Im not sure if this'l lhelp, but perhaps some non-fighter fighting will help your tests, yesterday i fought some flies with Ules (Dark bluie concussion, dark blue parry, nothing else) with a warhammer, and it broke before I capped or even really hurt the fleis (who parried everything by forming into a mass of a shield

), and i wa sat half health or so.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:16 am

honest to god, the fighting system we had after the update was GREAT. I really loved it.

PLEASE go back to the way it was.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:25 am

Salathe wrote:honest to god, the fighting system we had after the update was GREAT. I really loved it.

PLEASE go back to the way it was.

I totally agree!!!!

Edit : Maybe just a little, tiny TINY bit more healt than after the update, not 10x more.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:35 am

Personally, I think the best thing we could do is to get the system back, like just after the update, and multiplicate every armors value by 1.5. That way, we wont get hurt too much each hits, and weak fighters will be more armored, thus less troubles with NPCs. I dont see any problems with that, since now the weapons is more useful than a whole kit of armor...