Fighting system

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:13 am

I changed the fighting system a little today.
Fights will now, in general, need more time, individual hits will take less hitpoints. Constitution will now play a more important rule than before.

Martin

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:27 pm

Fighting takes much longer now, even so long that my character is unable to kill a single pig.
Probably a mixture of 'wrong weapon', 'low skills' and 'averange attributes'.

Seems the newbies need to find another income source than the famous "Schweineklopfen" (Pig-Slaughter).

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:04 pm

I changed it again, after doing some tests.

Martin

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:01 pm

I have noticed some changes. It took like 2 min to kill a silverwear 5 copper coin weilding skeleton for me today. Mummies I seem to be able to kill at the same rate thoe.

I also noticed I capped off of about 10 mummies and one skeleton. Does this have much to do with the fighting system change?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:05 pm

I will try that later, but maybe they just hightened the skill gain, it would be logic i think. Yesterday i fought a LOT against good duelers, crypt, and all that and didnt cap, i even had mined, i found it strange.

Thariel Feuersturm · Post by **Thariel Feuersturm** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:20 pm

why is it so difficult to understand

you reach the skillcap because you are training tactics.

its a new skill and you are earning much by fighting the mummies or the skelettons.

its simple mathematic.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:31 pm

I said i DID NOT cap, but yes what you said is logic, thats why i dont know why i didnt cap yesterday since i fought tons of skeletons, even red ones.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:01 pm

I took me 4 real mins to kill a big, though i was fighting unarmed..., and i have low skill, but this is a bit too much IMHO...
(Poor leatherworkers)

And it gets worse if you get overwhelmed...

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:53 pm

Oh wow, i just dueled Salathe, i had an average armor and some bad quality gloves, leggins helmet and all. He had i dunno which armor and a double axe. I had a good bastard sword and a good shield, the fight lasted over 10 minutes, 10 minutes! I could have gone to toiled, eat my dinner and come back, i still wasnt at half when i stopped the fight. Before duels were too quick, now they are too long, we just need to find the middle.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:55 pm

The fighting system now is horrible.... it was MUCH better before these "little" changes. I really wish you put it back to the way it was yesterday.

Had a 7 ot 8 minute duel with arameh and it ended in me having full health. And he was maybe a bit under full health. Thats absurd =P.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:05 pm

Okay, I changed it again.
You'll deal more damage now.

Martin

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:17 pm

I think the problem with the fighting system(yesterday's one) was that armor werent giving enought defense, armors were kinda useless...

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:17 pm

I would test it but i cant hit this $!@%ing bunny!

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:24 pm

make it so duels between players last long butagainst npcs it doesnt, maybe make it so against npcs you do more damage and such.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:31 pm

He has made damage more now, but not as uber powerfull as few days ago. It should even out.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:32 pm

Well, i dueled Gort for 10 minutes, and i wasnt hurt, its still too defensive. i would say to get it back like yesterday, and raises the armor efficiency

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:41 pm

No it is not too defensive, it is just right, its stops us dying when we fight 2 people, one hitting our backs! the fight did not last long, so how can you complain?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:47 pm

I was hitting your back, dude, i fought Gort 10 minutes! I was wearing a crappy set of armor, and hitting with a very good staff. Yeah, it may be possible to win when someone hit your back, sure it is. But one on one its still impossible with similar warriors.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:57 pm

Speaking from some amount of 'real' experience...

A fight between people of different levels of skill can be very quick. But a fight between very closely matched fighters can take anywhere from five to ten minutes, if not more. I have seen one fight go on for over 45 minutes, without a single blow landing.

Just my 2 cents.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:17 am

Mmhh... I am only a average fighter.
With my new, quite good elven mage-staff I needed around 4 hits to kill a pig before the server update. After it I need around 6 hits (and it takes longer). And now I need around 20! After two endless fights against pigs I quit, so maybe I need a few hits less after the "warm-up phase".

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:01 am

Before the new system was implemented, Maggie was quite capable of going down to the mummies, and taking them on 3-5 at a time without ever really being in danger. Pigs were 2-3 hits.

After the change, pigs were taking 20-30 hits, maybe more. However, when the skeletons showed up randomly in the square, they took her out in two hits, *with* all her armor and stuff... after she lost the armor it was a one-hit kill. I didn't dare even go down to the mummies.

And if it is now changed again so that hits are even less, I may as well give up on Maggie fighting at all and just go entirely back to carpentry. This new fighting system helps to make the bigger fighters more realistic, but it also makes it almost impossible for new fighters to get anywhere. If Maggie, with an almost-green concussion weapons skill is *that* weak, you'd have to work the pigs forever before being able to do anything 'interesting'. You can only train for 5-10 minutes before hitting skill cap, and then sit out for over an hour to get any amount of training done again. And you're looking at months of doing nothing but killing pigs to get your weapons skills up enough to face anything else; and, of course, that doesn't train things like parry or dodge at all.

Every other profession sees reasonably rapid improvement, even if working by yourself. With this new fighting system, it seems to me that a fighter can't go do anything by himself till he is almost a master. Good fighters have complained that they can't go do so-and-so, and they've been told to take along friends. Well, when there are 20-30 people on, that's great, but what about when you're on and there's only 4-5 others, none of whom you know because they speak a different language? Just tough out of luck? That's the BEST time to train, because you don't miss out on any RP chances. But the new fighting system doesn't allow for that, at least for low to moderate level fighters. I can understand needing more than one person to go fight the really big bad monsters... but with the way it stands now, one fighter alone is useless against just about any monster.

Of course, it's possible that it's just because no one has Tactics really yet. But I just don't see one skill like that making THAT much of a difference.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:06 am

Its just that skills make a huge difference now. so average skills might not do as good as skills only slightly higher. Mummies may have been classed as low skill required training partners in the past, but now they make us top end fighters skill cap after a while, which was impossible before. I suggest that the mistake is, non of the lower class fighters are using the new pre-mummy related monsters around.

Marvin · Post by **Marvin** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:26 am

A comment on the pigs.

People in this profeesion would have means to kill the pig. I've heard a bit about a hammerlike device with a peg on the end, that they strike on the base of the skull that kills them instantly like a bullet. If I remember right it has been used for hundreds of years. Perhaps this is too off-topic.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:42 am

NirAntae is quite right... My character is already suitable green in Concussion Weapons and only some shadings worse in Parry and it takes IMO too long to kill pigs (I didnt test monsters yet).
So, in the new fighting system it must be very, very, very boring and disappointing for all new fighters if it needs a lot of minutes and endless hits to kill just a normal pig!

@Retlak: What are the "new pre-mummy related monsters"? It seems I can't travel freely over Gobiath because I could easily stumble across some uber fast wolves etc. Or I encounter some flies:
"Haha, stupid flies, taste my sword *ching-ching* - Damn! They are mosquit---" Go to the yellow cross! Go to the yellow cross! (BTW: The crosses arent really yellow anymore...)

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:42 am

Chill out, with the "liek omfg it is teh suxorz!!!".
More damage, more armor % resist damage, less quality effects. This way less armored pigs and things are easier to kill by higher skills, and not inanely un-beatable by average.

Also note, rabbits are small and extremely agile, they are the worst test subjects.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:11 am

I don't know what you peoples have. I kill flies with two strokes of my staff. Or 6-7 stabs with my daggers. And I have low fighting skills and fightattributes

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:17 am

Minor test: Attributes on 12, fighting skills on 50, good but not superior equipment (1,19,4, 184 etc.), opponent 112. An average guy vs an average monster I'd say. Result:

After 6 minutes, I had lost app. 20% of the HPs. Extrapolated, this means, the char could stand that monster half an hour without any healing.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:39 am

I think the system we had yesterday was good, the only problem, which is the reason we changed it...is that the hits were too strong. An unarmored person getting hit was getting hurt a lot, without getting killed, that way is was alright. But the armored persons were losing about as muc hhealt as a naked person, and from my view, that was the problem. I would suggest, that we would get back like when yesterday, when the hits seemed too strong, and raise the armors efficiency. That way, when the armor efficiency is balanced, the attack power and all will be just ok, and it will help weak players against NPCs, since they usually wear armoring.

Any comments?

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:18 am

I'm not just raging against it being unfair.

I even said that it's *good* that even wonderful fighters would have to 'gang' up on more powerful enemies. If I sounded like I was just screaming that the new system sucks, it wasn't my intention.

It's that it is now verging on impossible to *become* a good fighter.

Yes, there are now more 'low class' monsters available to choose from. Like wolves (which gang up on you by the dozen and swiftly kill you by surrounding you if you aren't very good and in very expensive armor) and deer (which live primarily in the exact same places as wolves).

I guess it's mostly that you start out *so* low on the scale, and progression is so slow, that it will be almost impossible to become a decent fighter and *not* powergame.

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:11 am

All I have to say is WTF JOO NEWBAZ!

Uhm, really thoe. THE NEW SYSTEM PWNS! I've liked it all the time besides when it took 3-4 hits to kill char from the back. With low tacics and dodge I can kill to my knoledge any non-demon/magic skeleton with ease. I can kill 4 of these type of skeletons without much problem as well. I admit duels now take ages ONLY because tactics is so low on every fighter. In a few months everything will be back to/ close to normal. Fighters need to train again, simple as that. I have 2 up and coming fighters I mainly am making because of the new system but I like expearamenting with diffrent weapons/fighting styles. My one newest guy took 5 min to gain wrestling and cap. The second time he's capped took about 6 min. Both times on pigs. Other fighter-Took about 5 min to learn tacits(with a very low parry and slashing skill) and he capped in about 3 min. after learning tactics. The next time however it took him about 6 min. All on pigs. If you people are that impatient then just play somthing else OR focus on how this game is for RP sake and not the fighting system.

In my opinion fighters ARE overpowered. Or will be soon. Heres a list of skills that fighters can get at a decent level in a few months to support my theory.

Parry-Blocks meele
Tactics-A little of everything in meele combat it seems
Dodge-You know dodging
Slashing/Concussion/Wrestling/Puncture/Distance-(your pick) To attack...
Magic Resistance- To fend off mages.

Now imagine a fighter With all those skills(only one weapon skill) at a mid level. Sounds scary to me.