And again the loved theme: magic

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:09 pm

With players it would go by more quickly, like the cell-splitting thing. You start with one, then that one splits into two, then each of those splits into two more, and so on. You start out with a few mages, then they go out and teach new ones, then those new mages go out and teach others, etc.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:11 pm

Narmir wrote:With players it would go by more quickly, like the cell-splitting thing. You start with one, then that one splits into two, then each of those splits into two more, and so on. You start out with a few mages, then they go out and teach new ones, then those new mages go out and teach others, etc.

It would be the same with GMs, except with GMs, the experienced mages would hold no grudges.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:13 pm

@Estralis

Das gibt magie nur jenen chars die reich sind. also jenen die genug in skills und ingame arbeit investiert haben um geld anzuhäufen oder stark auch im kampf zu sein.

Das heisst magie nur für magier die sehr gute handwerker sind, krieger oder einfach sonstwie irgendwie reich oder bevorteilt.

Magoe sollte nicht nur denen zustehen die sich genug skills oder items zusammengerafft haben.

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:13 pm

It could start out with GMs teaching some, but eventually it would have to pass on to the players

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:15 pm

Once a GM teaches a few, then it would be passed, naturally.

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:17 pm

That's what i've been saying

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:19 pm

Narmir wrote:That's what i've been saying

But instead of players just getting these runes out of nowhere, mages can come to the island teaching them.

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:20 pm

Yeah that's what I meant, sorry if my description wasn't clear enough. I think some of the archmages should stay behind for a little while longer to do so.

Avareniah · Post by **Avareniah** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:21 pm

We *have* the mages. They just need to actually hand the runes over and a small lesson on them, you know?
Edit: Teh Mez beat me

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:21 pm

Its only a question of time and some player teach (unintentionally) a bad role player and some days later again evryone have magic...... no controle means ever earlier or later evryone will have magic

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:23 pm

Cliu that's exactly what the Academy tried to do, right? And it failed.

I say hand out some (basic) runes to more mages (good students of the academy) and let them teach them (with good rp and reasoning).

After all this time I for once would be happy if I knew ANY player did posess some runes already.

People receiving no runes shouldn't complain then, but just try to roleplay well with one of those "teachers" to learn magic for themselves.

One day this has to be player run anyway, or do the dev's and gm's realy want to put their time in looking after the magic system?

Oh, and due to the small playerbase, the abuse of magic will be known by others immidiately and then the gm's can talk to that player regarding his roleplay anyway, so there's not much room for "Hello I'm a Fighcraftcian!" Type Characters.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:24 pm

Cliu that's exactly what the Academy tried to do, right? And it failed.

No, the academy had a system. They had classes, they had times, they had grades.

These are just mages with an apprentice. No grades, just possible lessons along the way of getting runes.

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:25 pm

Djironnyma wrote:Its only a question of time and some player teach (unintentionally) a bad role player and some days later again evryone have magic...... no controle means ever earlier or later evryone will have magic

That's a very good point, but unfortunately I don't think it can be prevented. Eventually everything hits a bad roleplayer and is abused, and all we can do is report this and take away their runes and skills

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:28 pm

Djironnyma wrote:Its only a question of time and some player teach (unintentionally) a bad role player and some days later again evryone have magic...... no controle means ever earlier or later evryone will have magic

You're sounding like you do not trust the community.

I believe about everyone (except for one or two exceptions) has enough common sense to act responsible with getting the runes.

If you don't think we can act responsible with it anyway, why did they script the system in the first place then?

So far the actual gain for the game from the magic system is next to 0, except for the ocassional flames cast in GM-run quests.

The Academy could've been established about 1 year ago, with a hoax spread about a finished magic system soon and would've had the same Roleplay effect.

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:29 pm

Xalliar wrote:Nope. If GMs teach Players they really TRUST in, those players will be surely competent and teach again only players woh are worth it...
I, just for example, won't just teach a dwarf who is a blacksmith and a skilled Axe-fighter... ( the i-example just really was an example ,nothing else Nonono, really! xD )

( was to Djiro )

you dont think that really? do you? that is illusorily.....

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:32 pm

Faladron wrote: You're sounding like you do not trust the community.

I believe about everyone (except for one or two exceptions) has enough common sense to act responsible with getting the runes.

If you don't think we can act responsible with it anyway, why did they script the system in the first place then?

So far the actual gain for the game from the magic system is next to 0, except for the ocassional flames cast in GM-run quests.

The Academy could've been established about 1 year ago, with a hoax spread about a finished magic system soon and would've had the same Roleplay effect.

i trust the community, but not evry singel player.....

and i personally was no scripter i only a player (and tester) of the magic system....

... but the academy would you only give runs to cast, not to teact magic..... , at fact the magisters hasnt no rune to teach magic.....

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:47 pm

Xal: you will deals so, and that i trust you yes, but the past show more than one time that there are some roleplayers how use roleplaying only to become stronger.....

Gromblun · Post by **Gromblun** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:47 pm

i have a problem with not having two trades. in RL you can be a carpenter, tailorer, teacher and still practise judo, karate ect on the side. so why not ingame? makes a more of a real atmosphere

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:51 pm

your life is to short to become a professor of mathemathic and history, the worldmaster in kendo and a artist/a painter at the same time.....

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:00 pm

As i RP two mages, One most know as a Warlock

And most don't know the other, Here's my two cents.

The Apprenticeship is you best way to introduce it. But i have a spin to throw in. Give four players, two German, two English, and Give them the basic-Advanced runes. Now, These two players will create a new character, two Sages, and two Warlocks. One of each in both german and English. This is Why i propose this.

Half and half characters get very little attention. By means of this i am saying we get royally screwed by full on mages or full on fighters. Because our skills are halved in the matter, it is near impossible to win, but it's not totally Impossible. The Sages can teach those mages that are pure mages. All they do is cast magic. But the Warlocks teach us Warlocks and Rangers. Us Halfies out here. The warlocks can teach offensive and defensive(and Healing to rangers) spells. While Sages teach the Archane, Elemental, Defense, Necromancy, Rune craft. That way you can divide up the work load. But the Students will be hand picked from applicants. So that only the Good RPers get the runes first, And then warn them against spreading the magic to those not ready for it. Ie:Bad Rpers. The Apprentences will only get basic runes.

In this way atleast we can keep the magic special for a little bit of time..

Gromblun · Post by **Gromblun** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:00 pm

you do realise people weren't stupid back then, even in the Stone Age people had hobbies...

Gromblun · Post by **Gromblun** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:18 pm

thats sounds ok

one sentence for you. a trump card you could call it. Cave Paintings Xal, as far as im aware they're not a form of mating or hunting...that must be a sort of hobby musn't it? or did they mate differently back then

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:30 pm

Narmir's idea is ideal. Magic should never have been taught in bulk, it does not make sense that magic is taught in a class room of 30 ... I mean isnt that the same way we teach History or Math ? Shouldn't Magic have been held at a higher level ?
Give some 20 character mages that have proven themselves to be able to play a suitable magician, much like they did with Damien and Dji, and let those 20 pick out one or two students and let slowly magic filter back in that way. I for one would play my elf character more often if say he got lessons from his lady, as that would be far more realistic for his character then to be taught by some people he respects less or feels he is wiser then.

Post by **Nitram** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:37 pm

Xal's concept has the problem, that everything that there is a high gm activity needed. The academy build on the same thing...failed. You all know.

Narmirs concept has another problem. Who chooses the first mages? All others will cry, that they didn't get the runes. And who is able to say, that noone of the chosen chars, gives the runes to others, like he want?

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:41 pm

Nitram wrote:Xal's concept has the problem, that everything that there is a high gm activity needed. The academy build on the same thing...failed. You all know.

Narmirs concept has another problem. Who chooses the first mages? All others will cry, that they didn't get the runes. And who is able to say, that noone of the chosen chars, gives the runes to others, like he want?

No one can Nitram. But this is the same with the Academy. Once some players get through it, and could teach others runes. Who says that they will not pass it on to players whom cannot "handle" it appropiately?
Also, you must just make a stance. You say:"These these these and these get runes, and the rest not. They will have to be taught." You can for instance discuss every single player that will get runes with the GMs or so, and then decide whom will get them. *shrugs* I do not really see any other options.

Post by **Nitram** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:49 pm

The GM's never invest the time into the students. The archmages of them get inaktiv after a few weeks. The academy teached me this.

Until now, Narmirs proposal is the best. If there comes nothing better, some players will get runes and a basic introduce in the magic. The archmage chars stay active. May some of them teach too.

Nitram

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:50 pm

I agree with Erick, the GMs will just have to take a stance and say "these are the characters who will start it out". It won't make everyone happy, of course, but they'll get over it

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:53 pm

Narmir wrote:I agree with Erick, the GMs will just have to take a stance and say "these are the characters who will start it out". It won't make everyone happy, of course, but they'll get over it

Not one solution will make everyone happy.

The-Puppeteer · Post by **The-Puppeteer** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:01 pm

I would like to have a say in all this, but I don't actually know how the teaching of magic is done right now. I like the idea of players teaching players, but this somehow feels strange. I mean think about it, mages walking around on the streets meeting common folk and getting friendly with them and then starts teaching them magic? If Mages arn't common then their identity should be kept secret or something. Who wouldn't want to asassinate one of the three "teachers". Then comes the question of who should be taught and this is simple:
A riddle is handed out to the contesting mages, this riddle tells of the location of the runes. And there are only enough runes for three mages.
Sounds ok? Right?
But that still doesn't fix the problem of people teaching the runes to other people, so how about the contestants are first "tested".

Ariges Feringwood · Post by **Ariges Feringwood** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:08 pm

I think one of the biggest problem is , when we have 3 teachers and 2 of the
three suddenly says that he don´t want to learn others the magic...
The GM´s can take the runes away , but then we have the same problem , who
are the 3 teachers.
When for example , Damien is a teacher , then comes Djironnyma and says
why i´m not a mage? we have this problem now and we have it when we have
the three teachers.
But i think i t should work