Question - buildings

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:05 am

Aegohl I am happy you are mature enough to refrain from personal insults. Well after much thought on going on your tangent of insulting you on various issues about your characters and such I decided against it as it would ruin what this topic was made for. Well, lets avoid that and oh concerning the rumor of my permanent ban: here is an excerp from a PM from Damien; I have asked, your ban lasts until the 20th august. You're too quick ; thanks.

Now if you can explain to me what reasons ingame there are for the house of druids having lost so much room and trees, you say the blue leafed tree is a lost graphic but I see it pretty often in the southern forest. What ingame reason is there for our characters to pour in coins to builders but then do not get to dictate to the builders where we want it built and how large. Or are these reasons simply better left abandoned or made up so you, as a GM can work as you see fit.

Ah and of course you did go to the personal insults and as a GM I am dissapointed you could not differentiate character from player as it is not I who wanted the nice little village, rather it was Stephen and quite a good number of other inhabitants of the isle that wished to build it. But as the builders grew lax and would rather give them a chest and let them play with that for 2 months, well 6 months for them, they naturally lost heart in what they wanted to do and moved on with their lives. Good roleplay on part of the builders, they after all do have so many other jobs to do.

Moving on to Japheth, he wrote earlier a comment about why would the house of druids need to be larger as there was only 5 active druids playing there. I could easily pose the same question to the grey rose castle, how many members of the rose are active again ? Same with Silverbrand of course.
I am relatively sure there would not be a double standard as truely the character Caitlin Fergus effected the game dramatically as a single character, I am sure all would acknowledge this, and as she had such an impact I would not understand why shrinking her house would make sense. I mean the Grey Rose effects the game equally I would say, for the german players of course, and yet they have a mighty large castle.

Thank you all for your time and of course your interest

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:41 am

Grant Herion wrote:Aegohl I am happy you are mature enough to refrain from personal insults. Well after much thought on going on your tangent of insulting you on various issues about your characters and such I decided against it as it would ruin what this topic was made for. Well, lets avoid that and oh concerning the rumor of my permanent ban: here is an excerp from a PM from Damien; I have asked, your ban lasts until the 20th august. You're too quick ; thanks.

That might be true if I didn't have access to all this. You snuck in under a different name, Grant, and we allowed you to play. Of course, the fact that you rant about our corruption and then say you have me in your pocket behind my back leads me to believe we had the wrong idea.

Now if you can explain to me what reasons ingame there are for the house of druids having lost so much room and trees, you say the blue leafed tree is a lost graphic but I see it pretty often in the southern forest. What ingame reason is there for our characters to pour in coins to builders but then do not get to dictate to the builders where we want it built and how large. Or are these reasons simply better left abandoned or made up so you, as a GM can work as you see fit.

Blue trees no exist in future client. They go bye bye. No two people deserve a whole graphic to themselves, anyhow, being that we only have so many to use. But you have an idea there, we'll start selling the graphics to players. I just bought the human male. You'll have to play females from now on.

Also not a GM. Quit long ago. I'm a player. That frees me up to call a spade a spade.

Every other wish, as I've said a hundred and ten times thus far, was being granted before all this talk started.

Ah and of course you did go to the personal insults and as a GM I am dissapointed you could not differentiate character from player as it is not I who wanted the nice little village, rather it was Stephen and quite a good number of other inhabitants of the isle that wished to build it. But as the builders grew lax and would rather give them a chest and let them play with that for 2 months, well 6 months for them, they naturally lost heart in what they wanted to do and moved on with their lives. Good roleplay on part of the builders, they after all do have so many other jobs to do.

... Not sure how this relates to me.

Moving on to Japheth, he wrote earlier a comment about why would the house of druids need to be larger as there was only 5 active druids playing there. I could easily pose the same question to the grey rose castle, how many members of the rose are active again ? Same with Silverbrand of course.

Silverbrand was halfed as already said twice! Figure it out! The conspiracy theory doesn't add up!

As I already said,
I am relatively sure there would not be a double standard as truely the character Caitlin Fergus effected the game dramatically as a single character, I am sure all would acknowledge this, and as she had such an impact I would not understand why shrinking her house would make sense. I mean the Grey Rose effects the game equally I would say, for the german players of course, and yet they have a mighty large castle.

Caitlin doesn't own said building anymore, and again, it's still going to be bigger than most other buildings, and it's going to have everything she asked for but a nonexistant tree. I'm sure the more I have to repeat myself the smarter you'll look, so you win that one.

Back to the Grey Rose--the same old obsession. I'm waiting for the word "Lyrenzia" to slip.

Thank you all for your time and of course your interest

You got five minutes and none of the latter.

Talaena Landessi · Post by **Talaena Landessi** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:42 am

Tries on spamming pants then tries out some spam for the first time.

I LOVE YOU ALL!

Doesnt feel like she did as good a job as some of the other spammers, she then shrugs and smiles

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:59 am

Athian wrote: i figure this thread would be a good way to voice a few opinions on buildings and map structure, but as Aegohl said. there only human. i'm sure the map editors wouldn't mind adding in a few old things that were missing, so long as everyone can be a bit more patient and understand the reasons given for why they cannot not ot have not gotten around to changing this or that.

okay now we know we're getting out of hand when i need to quote myself, boths sides of this line (that means you too Gm's and map editors) should take some time and chill out. we're supposed to be working to improve our community and gaming experience aren't we? instead all is see is people playing a game of who can throw the biggest bitch fit. if this topic is only going to breed more trouble its better we close it now before it does any more damage.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:45 am

The precise problem is that there are threads already in place where I accept proposals, advice, etc... I'm hurting for it, but that's rarely what I get.

Instead, this. This thread was never meant to be helpful.

There are a few things I won't allow. I will defend the map team. Period. They're players like you who put in real work and lots of it, and this bitching and moaning about sizes of buildings is just a waste, especially when it's already known the buildings will not be the same on the next version of the map.

Alysha · Post by **Alysha** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:47 am

I just said it looks better than the current building...
but I still think its too small. Like I said I dont know how the building looked like before, I just know it was much bigger. *stops before she starts to get involved in this discussion*

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:04 am

I've been accepting proposals here since the last thread I took proposals from sunk:

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... &start=130

What is above is not proposals. If you want bigger buildings, talk to the GM's. The smaller buildings were orders given. You can only shoot the messenger so long before he dies.

Please lock already.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:00 am

I am moving over to aegohls proposal thread.
I freely admit my post that followed Darren's may have been a little heavy handed. It how ever was and remains saddening to me when I see staff helping increase the division that these sort of threads cause. About as disappointing as it is to me every time i see players choosing to debase rather than construct.
Thanks to those who partook constructively, thanks to Aegohl for taking the time to go over this time and time again.
I am bowing out satisfied that the druid house is getting the same treatment as any other building” mostly". Fact I don’t like 10x10 is not really an issue as its the normal.
I consider this matter closed let us if we feel the need press the 10x10 issue on another thread that has not become so heated.
Brian

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:11 pm

Okay, let's be serious now.

We're not dumb. While the probability that there is a dumb person in a randomly picked set of 12 persons is rather high, the members of our team were not picked randomly but selected with care. There shouldn't be any dumbass idiots doing anything here. That's just for the records.

So, when we decide that in average buildings should be smaller, that means that in average buildings should be smaller. I hope you got what that means and in case you don't know the word "average" you should go and get a dictionary or find something online. This means, that in average, buildings will be smaller. Does this mean that a particular building will be smaller with a probability of 100%? Damn, NO!
The map editor, who's a smart ass, maybe even an aeggi-head, will decide on every building. He can do that, he's got at least some brain behind his eyes and some eyes in front of his brain, he will have a look, make a decision, do some mouseclicks and that's it.

Being upset, demanding things, being rude or mean will not lead to anything. What someone has paid 20 years ago is not of too much value: If something doesn't fit a new concept, it will not be done. Period. If you paid for a nuclear powerplant in TB, that's nice, however we might decide that nuclear powerplants do not fit the setting later and that's where you got bad luck. It's as simple as that.

Don't whine around. You can actually TALK to Aegohl, see what he's done and so on, so please, please, please stop behaving like babies.

As for my blueprints being rude, mean and offending:
What a nonsense! It was just a caricature.

Martin

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:15 pm

Don't make me laugh, Martin. I could easily identify several idiots in your little team.

As for people behaving like babies? The player aren't the only ones, you babies.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:33 pm

Dónal Mason wrote:Don't make me laugh, Martin. I could easily identify several idiots in your little team.

Really, well, then just name them.

Martin

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:07 pm

Damien, Keikan, Japheth. That's 3 from the GM/dev team in general that I've seen enough of to form a valid opinion.

Errian Abêth · Post by **Errian Abêth** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:14 pm

Varshikar:
If my memory does not totaly fail me, during the drough, when I build the first version of the Northerot Castle on the ruins of the Mana-Well there was already the Grey Rose keep.
Am I wrong ?

I'm not quite sure, though my memory can fail me, but I believe when all the drough things happened (which were great quests by the way) there was only the foundation walls of the Grey Rose castle built.

Furthermore, stop flaming and using this topic as your rhetorical playground folks. Discussions can work without any anger and be productive after all if everyone stays on a peaceful limit.

Me personally can not see why things like the druid house have to be little huds now where only some chairs and a desk can be in, that is not logical nor realistic. Even if there are only less people playing, there is not even space for one bed.
I don't know the technical backgrund, though, but there are bigger buildings existing.

I see the problem in the missing guidelines of building a house in our game here. Some asked for them in the past but the answers differed from who answered.
Past also showed that the bigness and equipment of buildings differed from who built them.
Maybe some rules for building houses should be made, which can change from time to time when the game status proceeds. (Since Illarion is always changing there were of course other things needed two years ago than today.)
If everyone sticks to those no one can get advantages to others. And those complaints would not be needed.
add: If buildings have to change because of technical reasons then, all of them change so there won't be many compaints either.

Japheth · Post by **Japheth** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:46 pm

Damien, Keikan, Japheth

Why? Because we disagree with you? Is somebody who disagrees with you and your constant sniping, unproductive sarcasm and foul manners automatically an idiot?

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:47 pm

Damien? Annoying.
Keikan? Arrogant.
You? Also arrogant. Very arrogant ever since you became a GM. Also runs off in a huff because someone on the internet upset poor little you.

Japheth · Post by **Japheth** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:50 pm

Arrogance doesn't make somebody an idiot. Anyway, you've answered Martin's question. Now, back to the topic at hand, which was answered, once again, by Aegohl. What is it now..three times he has answered this topic?

Devrah Liioness · Post by **Devrah Liioness** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:14 pm

martin wrote:
As for my blueprints being rude, mean and offending:
What a nonsense! It was just a caricature.

Martin

Fine, then here's my caricature

http://www.geocities.com/schmillarion/index.html

Edit: And that map isn't directed at the map team in particular, I know they work hard. It's just that.. well, we do have a lot of wilderness. Mine doesn't intend any more offense than Martin's did.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:20 pm

martin wrote: Being upset, demanding things, being rude or mean will not lead to anything.

You get what you give, and there also happens to be more players to be an ass back, actually Im not sure how many active players and staff members there are, it's probably pretty close, hm

Devrah Liioness wrote:
Fine, then here's my caricature

http://www.geocities.com/schmillarion/index.html

Edit: And that map isn't directed at the map team in particular, I know they work hard. It's just that.. well, we do have a lot of wilderness. Mine doesn't intend any more offense than Martin's did.

loooool

AlaineMilan · Post by **AlaineMilan** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:24 pm

Devrah Liioness wrote:
martin wrote:
As for my blueprints being rude, mean and offending:
What a nonsense! It was just a caricature.

Martin
Fine, then here's my caricature

http://www.geocities.com/schmillarion/index.html

Edit: And that map isn't directed at the map team in particular, I know they work hard. It's just that.. well, we do have a lot of wilderness. Mine doesn't intend any more offense than Martin's did.

O.O awesome

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:39 pm

Devrah Liioness wrote:
martin wrote:
As for my blueprints being rude, mean and offending:
What a nonsense! It was just a caricature.

Martin
Fine, then here's my caricature

http://www.geocities.com/schmillarion/index.html

Edit: And that map isn't directed at the map team in particular, I know they work hard. It's just that.. well, we do have a lot of wilderness. Mine doesn't intend any more offense than Martin's did.

lol

Post by **Nitram** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:46 pm

Devrah Liioness wrote:
martin wrote:
As for my blueprints being rude, mean and offending:
What a nonsense! It was just a caricature.

Martin
Fine, then here's my caricature

http://www.geocities.com/schmillarion/index.html

Edit: And that map isn't directed at the map team in particular, I know they work hard. It's just that.. well, we do have a lot of wilderness. Mine doesn't intend any more offense than Martin's did.

i can't even smile about this. If you don't like Illarion, you are free to leave. Sorry. You may don't know, the amount of work, we spend every day for Illarion. If i have to read something like this, i ask mayself, why i spend all the time, to develop this game.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:50 pm

Your work is wasted.

Saradomin_Meranwyn · Post by **Saradomin_Meranwyn** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:09 pm

Hmph. Well ... <Insert very long and crude sentence here>

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:11 pm

Nitram wrote:
Devrah Liioness wrote:
martin wrote:
As for my blueprints being rude, mean and offending:
What a nonsense! It was just a caricature.

Martin
Fine, then here's my caricature

http://www.geocities.com/schmillarion/index.html

Edit: And that map isn't directed at the map team in particular, I know they work hard. It's just that.. well, we do have a lot of wilderness. Mine doesn't intend any more offense than Martin's did.
i can't even smile about this. If you don't like Illarion, you are free to leave. Sorry. You may don't know, the amount of work, we spend every day for Illarion. If i have to read something like this, i ask mayself, why i spend all the time, to develop this game.

i think its just ment as a joke
look i remade illarion in schmillarion version!
Its The Final Showdown!

PS: no personal insults ment

ahh a dayly dose of spamtastic spam yum yum

Post by **Nitram** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:12 pm

Did you feel better after you discouraged me completly?

I prepared a few updates for the next days ( ! ). But i don't think they will take place really soon, after your great post, Donal. Thank you.

Nitram

Devrah Liioness · Post by **Devrah Liioness** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:28 pm

Well, that's how I'm sure Caitlin and other players of druids (me included) felt in response to Martin's post. I'm pretty sure I said right in my post that it's not intended as an insult but a joke. So I'm taking things too far and too seriously if i don't laugh at Martin's drawing but take it as an insult, but my caricature cannot be taken in the same way?

Perhaps I've illustrated my point.

Pilinbrion · Post by **Pilinbrion** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:30 pm

1.) baaad design

2.) baaad type-failures

3.) VERY constructive critics

4.) you lack of real humour

5.) If you don't like it - feel free to leave

5.) Isn't that all spam?!?

6.) @Nitram: updates, updates *hungry*

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:25 pm

Well god, am I sorry I petitioned for this thread to be reopened,
I actually feel I owe japheth an apology not because I believe what I wrote was actually incorrect but since I have written it certain players have used the topics reopening to act out further in similar ways.
Unfortunately Errian Abêth and any others who have attempted to make a valid point in this have seen it milled under by complete garbage.

@Kevin
Get off this forum you apparently lack the mental capacity required to enter into it. I would apologise if I offended you, but frankly your spam on an topic that should in the “big people” world be dedicated to serious discussion offends me

@Devrah
Again big people word lets pretend martins drawing was truly offensive having had the topic reopened you can find nothing better to add to the conversation than a similarly inappropriate and by your own claim offensive drawing. Well done topic degenerates into nonsense again but that’s okay you showed them. Martin is often in IRC and probably on MSN why don’t you contact him personally about it and spare us all the drama?

@Donal your board account is wasted...
what are you doing you offer little but subtract so much, lets see your ideas on the map suggestion thread.

To Martin, Grant, Aegohl and just about any one else who had waded through all this spam to see if any actual ideas are found, my thanks truly.
The vocal minority has struck again and we find ourselves unable to conduct a constructive debate on the implementation of the map.
Brian

Devrah Liioness · Post by **Devrah Liioness** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:26 pm

Pendar wrote: @Devrah
Again big people word lets pretend martins drawing was truly offensive having had the topic reopened you can find nothing better to add to the conversation than a similarly inappropriate and by your own claim offensive drawing. Well done topic degenerates into nonsense again but that’s okay you showed them. Martin is often in IRC and probably on MSN why don’t you contact him personally about it and spare us all the drama?

Actually, I do recall saying twice that it was not intended as offensive. This irritates me. Why does everyone seem to think that Martin is an uber-god and we all must worship him? I find the entire concept mildly disturbing.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:37 pm

Actually I took no offence either way but you all thought it horrible. So if i spit on X and claim its non offencive your reaction would be to spit back just to show me how offencive it could be.
It had no business on this thread one i got up on my soap box on and shot japheth down on, for reactions actually more mature than the ones that have followed.
I am pissed of that i should spend my time writing a post promoteing a respectful attitude from the staff. So that certain people can follow that up by being rude to the staff and as such making my post a waste of tyeping.
I am embarresed to have stood up on the point as many of you have managed to prove he was perfectly correct
Brian