Question - buildings

Gwynnether · Post by **Gwynnether** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:58 am

GMs, DEVs and everyone else involved,

I would like to know why it has been decided that the buildings shall be smaller than before?

It occurs unlogical to me that we have a 9 times bigger map, but we have to resize the buildings?

Let alone the House of the Druids. It was twice the size than it is now and with the new maps it will be only 1/3 anymore.
I and many others have played so often in the House of the Druids in the old client. Right now I don't even want to think of it, let alone play there, simply because it is not even funny how it looks like.
This building belongs to some players and it hurts me literally that a bunch of people worked and gathered money for the building to build it; that the circle has not grown inactive (quite the converse) and though the building gets cut and I have not the slightest clue how I shall rp that ingame.

The hospital. Also the hospital is the half in the new client. I've paid a bunch of money in the old to get it renovated. To get some bed and furniture in there. Now it is just a one-man-tower with some chests in it.
I've pmed the responsible GM for Trolls Bane twice and that months ago and I always get "Hold on."

If we have to wait for the new maps to make major changes at building; fine. But I still don't understand what the size-thing is about.
Can someone explain me please?

- Jen

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:05 am

I was informed that at the rl meeting it was decided that buildings should be smaller. The size given me is 10x10. For most buildings this is reasonable, but, yes, for some pre-existing player-owned buildings a lot of detail goes out the window because their designs were previously so intricate.

As for the hospital, it will be a hospital again on the next map. Until then, the GM's can work on it on the server.

Gwynnether · Post by **Gwynnether** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:40 am

Hello Mitch,
thank you for responding

Yes, the workshop for example and also the shop has been resized from the old client to now. I see no problems with that; those buildings do not belong to players.

As for the hospital, it will be a hospital again on the next map. Until then, the GM's can work on it on the server.

Yes it would be nice if at least one bed would be in there again; so that ingame can be said that it is going to be renovated and I'm not in the terrible situation to defend myself why the hospital has become a warehouse.

To which GM shall I go with that, since I've been told twice to hold on?

- Jen

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:22 am

Bed on second floor and done.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:37 am

A player IMed me saying that 10x10 was awfully small. In reality, it isn't that small. Your average building could fit in 10x10 quite easily, but some of our old buildings are, shall we say, rather intricate. Here is an example of a simple 10x10 library floating in the middle of a volcano:

See? Roomy even with seating for twelve.

Gwynnether · Post by **Gwynnether** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:47 am

Nice Mitch =)
And now please put walls around it and show it again.

However, it's not only about if it is *too* small or not.
For me it is about that I see no reason why all the buildings should be 10x10, though we have such a big map that some players even complain about it, mind you. And I'm speaking about buildings belonging to players.

What I ask for, is that someone please explain me why the House of the Druid has been cut like this and in future will be even smaller.

- Jen

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:06 am

I didn't save the original. Nonetheless, it's considerable in size. On an earlier version of the map I was able to make the Fluffy Sheep Tavern in a 10x11, gaining seating capacity while ridding it off areas where you have to walk through chairs.

It's not that all buildings *must* be 10x10. That is the standard, however. The overall idea that was brought up at the rl meeting was that buildings must be smaller. 10x10 was suggested as the base.

I think the problem with the prototype of the druid house that I made that started all this discussion was that it wasn't 10x10: it was something like 5x14, making it very thin. In another version that I'm working on now I made it 6x11 and it actually looks more roomy than the larger 5x14 original. The closer the building is to a square the more roomy the inside looks.

However, at the same time the idea is to recapture the original "feel" and shape of the original druid house. Doing both that and keeping size restrictions in mind is difficult, but as I continue to work on the druid house it is possible.

This is why I replied to your saying that you were going to post something about this by saying "tssss. meddling." We could solve a lot of these problems by just talking between the two of us.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:12 am

For the record, here is me working on the Druid House:

and compared to the screenshot that started this whole thing:

Less tiles overall, sure, but the first looks larger somehow.

Gwynnether · Post by **Gwynnether** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:16 am

I'm not argueing, Mitch.

Everything I wish is to know *why*.
What is the reason for this decision?

Since you weren't on the RL meeting, I know you can't explain me; but maybe one of the other GMs would be so kind. That is why I'm posting here.

I know you are working hard on the map, Mitch and I wuv you for all the effort you make.
I just want to have an explaination since I do not understand it.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:19 am

I was just trying to explain that 10x10 isn't that small. In fact, if I keep this up the rl-meeting-goers might be more restrictive.... *hides*

Elise Gutenhof · Post by **Elise Gutenhof** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:44 am

One thing: I think, it't not only about small or not smal.For me in example. I'm missing things, specially in the house of the druids. You know what i mean? In example the shrine and sure....the tomb of a players character. For me that was the memory of a very wonderfull plot with a lot of fun, so maybe it´s possible, that such things wouldn't be forget the next time? Or another example: What about the monuments? There were two in Trollsbane.

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:08 am

I don't understand why the buildings had to change at all. I liked the shop the way it was. Now I hate the design. it was unique before. Now it isn't. The rest of the buildings I could care less about. Most of them didn't change and the ones that did look grand. The shop just annoys me.

Gwynnether · Post by **Gwynnether** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:11 am

One thing: I think, it't not only about small or not smal.For me in example. I'm missing things, specially in the house of the druids. You know what i mean? In example the shrine and sure....the tomb of a players character. For me that was the memory of a very wonderfull plot with a lot of fun, so maybe it´s possible, that such things wouldn't be forget the next time? Or another example: What about the monuments? There were two in Trollsbane.

I moaned about that already and made sure that we will have our tombs back on the new map.
When I saw the House of the Druids the first time in the new client I was close to tears. No terrace anymore with the blue tree.
No catacomb anymore with the two tombs. Deleted.
That is the reason why I refuse rping in the 'House of the Druids', because it isn't the house of the druids anymore.
It's just a few graphics placed on some tiles.

Edit:

Quinasa wrote:I don't understand why the buildings had to change at all. I liked the shop the way it was. Now I hate the design. it was unique before. Now it isn't. The rest of the buildings I could care less about. Most of them didn't change and the ones that did look grand. The shop just annoys me.

I agree wholeheartedly with you.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:39 am

Buildings like the old shop and the working house were waste of space at the old server and at the new too. I believe the plan for the future is, that there are more little houses (2-3 shops and 2-3 workhouses) than only 2 big ones.

Apropos, Why do you notice the changes now? The "small" versions exist since more than 6 months.

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:42 am

Who says changes are JUST being noticed now? Perhaps they've been bothering some of us and JUST now we're deciding to say something about it.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:45 am

Elise Gutenhof wrote: There were two in Trollsbane.

I can remind me on the "Udan Memorial" and the "Memorial for the vicitms in matter of the orc wars".

The first is forgotten, thats right. But i believe Aeghol built a new Udan Memorial. But the second still exist anywhere. I believe behind the shop.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:46 am

The buildings changed because they no longer existed. Things are missing because they were built, from scratch, by humans. It's talk like this that doesn't make me happy to have the job I have.

Humans err, and I, personally, while bringing back much of what's missing, intend to change more. We can have a whole, cohesive, beautiful map or we can have an incomplete smattering of buildings.

It's amazing that when I beg for input I get input of what to change. When I'm through begging for it, we better not change a thing.

Remember, please kindly, that you're dealing with a human being who is dealing with more tiles than there are players of this game, one at a time.

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:51 am

I like the rest of the map and considering that I haven't seen all the buildings thats fine because I didn't see all the buildings on the old server either. The only building I don't like is the shop. Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but I'm human too. We all know what that means.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:53 am

Apparently there was a glitch that didn't allow the center of the shop to take effect. I'm going to try to re-add that, but it's not so easy, and the importance of Eliza's shop is likely to decrease with the new map, relocation of the depots, and the already-implemented new traders.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:05 pm

Quinasa wrote:Now I hate the design. it was unique before. Now it isn't.

I tried to re-create Elizas shop, as it was ages ago, various times.
Each and everytime I stumbled about some graphical glitches with your current client version.

I came to a point where I considered it impossible (within a reasonable timeframe) to recreate Elizas shop, and decided to left out the Atrium and give her something "new".

I just don't/didn't do things to anger you, I have (most of the time) reasons for my actions.

There are now two options:
A) Aeghol finds some workarround, that slipped me.
B) The Java Client does not have this glitch (which is mostlikely the case).

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:38 pm

The blue tree is gone Gwyn?! That tree was great! *feels some of his memories shatter*. Oh dear, I can see your worries now.

Though, as Mitch explains it, it will go great, but some memorable things should not have just been taken away so easily.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:59 pm

Misjbar wrote: [...], but some memorable things should not have just been taken away so easily.

Huh !?

You think I did this on propose !?
Excuse me, but I am no omipotent person that is aware of every little detail of the old map.

Cut this out finaly, I am sick of this.

Gwynnether · Post by **Gwynnether** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:09 pm

I don't think he meant to offend you, Keikan. =)
He just phrased it in an unlucky way.

Edit:

Lennier wrote:Buildings like the old shop and the working house were waste of space at the old server and at the new too.

What do you mean with "waste of space at the old server"?

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:56 pm

Edit: Didn't realize that you bolded "server." I don't understand the question.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:34 pm

These small buildings wold be no problem in most cases but what about verry rich people who want to own a house with the size of 20x30 and a second maybe even third floor ontop?

maybe you shold make it larger in some cases for richer people like for instance: perceval crippen.
id imagine his house wold be like that.

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:41 pm

People don't own houses so thats really not a problem.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:15 pm

One day they can as i read.
When you can build your own house using an ingame tool.
But that day may still be far away.

Nop · Post by **Nop** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:22 pm

Keikan Hiru wrote: B) The Java Client does not have this glitch (which is mostlikely the case).

What kind of glitch are you referring to? I know neither the old layout nor the problem.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:28 pm

Quinasa wrote:People don't own houses so thats really not a problem.

last i checked people owned the houses in Varshikar(more or less). and while alot of people weren't happy with the changes to the houses and castles up there. most understood well enough that the map isn't exactly small or could be catered to any one group of people all the time. we simply rp'ed around it. collecting money and what not. only in extreme cases (such as not having ANY useful tools, before they were so nicely added). did i feel it was a need to complain a bit.
i figure this thread would be a good way to voice a few opinions on buildings and map structure, but as Aegohl said. there only human. i'm sure the map editors wouldn't mind adding in a few old things that were missing, so long as everyone can be a bit more patient and understand the reasons given for why they cannot not ot have not gotten around to changing this or that.

Talaena Landessi · Post by **Talaena Landessi** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:13 pm

Rp someone chopped the tree down muwhaha. And i dont think you have to worry about rping much in the druid house anymore since your druid is dead >< unless you know somehting i dont which is likely. i just miss the river through trollsbane, across from eliza's shop, it was probably one of the best places to hang out. With fooser, willum(halfer),K, and the other baddies (missunderstood people) on the other side of the river. with the southern forest just behind them along with the onion ball field.

just my two cents