Giving Teeth to IG Justice

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:31 am

Yes, we need stocks in the game, in the middle of the town.

So the prisoner will get to interact while sh*t gets thrown at him rather than sit in a boring old cell for hours.

"The town guard is corrupt!"
*is force-fed a rotting tomato*

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:42 am

http://217.160.140.46/community/forums/ ... hp?t=13170

Hehe I already proposed this.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:17 pm

I just think that if people RPed the "town cross resurrection omg i live liek 4eva lol roflmfao!!!11!~!11!eleventyone!1!!1!1" a little better, we would have more people worrying about what their character does. Last time I roleplayed and had to go to the cross (Yes, it does happen to me, too XD), I was traveling back from the desert with multiple stings to my lowerlegs due to scorpions. As I got to the cross (my health bar being my guiding light), I realized the poison was taking effect. My character was vomitting from the effects of the poison (all roleplay, mind you.. stumbling and slow walking can be done by dragging yourself and not holding your finger on a directional key

). As my health bar reached very low, I made Cain kneel down before the cross and pray before the gods (even though my character doesn't believe in the gods anymore, it was an act of desperation that anyone might do in such a situation) to spare his life.

Oddly enough, the poison actually wore off with my health bar at a fraction before zero ( I literally couldn't see my health bar anymore), and I treated it like an act of the gods sparing Cain's life. I roleplayed Cain crawling back into the main square of town, where Pendar found him just as Cain fell unconscious. It was really a beautiful sequence that I wish there would have been more witnesses for.

Its things like roleplaying strictly to your character that make you decide exactly what your character is doing next. If people roleplayed more thoughtfully, I can see how the problems with imprisonment and such would weigh much more heavily on their character in a roleplayed sense.
My suggestion, don't RP the cross as a resurrection point. RP it as a place to go to treat your wounds, then make sure that something is still sustained after the event. No character is a godly character, regardless of his or her skills. Each character is still susceptible to things like pain and suffering, and injury.

On a side note, I still make sure Cain doesn't want to go back to the desert for a while, out of fear of what happened last time. If people just took the time to think about what real life brevity a situation would have on their character, problems with the town guard and such would clear up and I would be able to start liking the town guard on an OOC level (Cain will still dislike the town guard, of course

).

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:25 pm

Maybe I should try that with Misjbar Cain. But oh wait, I think people would just laugh.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:21 pm

Hm, maybe a 9 life thing could be installed? If you get beaten unconcious 9 times in your life, your character is permanently dead at last? So that way, the guy who inevitably falls before a monster in his lifetime won't be gone forever, but people will take their lives seriously for once.

John Irenicus · Post by **John Irenicus** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:29 pm

Permanent death shouldn't even be a thing to talk about. It makes it nearly impossible to play a guard, criminal or whatever.
Why do we always have to implement new functions to force the players to make better roleplay, why can't they just stop using the lacks of the game and help making it better by their own roleplay? That MUST be possible. We already have the account system, so I belive we only have good and intelligent people here, they should be able to improve the game by their roleplay, IF they want to.
And again, this is just a game, and a game isn't fun anymore when it becomes too realitic. So let's leave it being a game.

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:58 am

The first day I played Illarion when I was a newbie, I accidentally lured a mummy to the cross. By your standards for when perma death should happen, my dwarf would have died officially seven times over.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:59 pm

John Irenicus wrote:Permanent death shouldn't even be a thing to talk about. It makes it nearly impossible to play a guard, criminal or whatever.
Why do we always have to implement new functions to force the players to make better roleplay, why can't they just stop using the lacks of the game and help making it better by their own roleplay? That MUST be possible. We already have the account system, so I belive we only have good and intelligent people here, they should be able to improve the game by their roleplay, IF they want to.
And again, this is just a game, and a game isn't fun anymore when it becomes too realitic. So let's leave it being a game.

I asked myself the same question a while back: "Why don't players get around the technical flaws by role playing?" Because, most probably aren't honest enough. I'd like to think that they are, but after watching what has been happening so far, I have to conclude that players still continue to play unfairly. It's to the point where technical proposals have to be imposed to solve problems.

It sucks, but it's the truth.

Maybe the account system is too lax? Maybe, instead of stories, they should implement scenarios: "If this and this happened to your [insert race] character, what would he/she do?" Have it simulate an actual role playing occurrence, rather than dance around it.

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:08 pm

Too lax.

That's funny.. Have you seen the latest noobies around?

I'd say they didn't even go through an account process.

yes.. too lax.

And also.. I think we need more evil characters... more thieves, maybe even some murderers...

Perm death is out of the question.. That's what skill loss and item loss is for = so people Do take dieing seriously.

But unforunately, I must say, that you cannot simply role play something.. I don't think that all players always go for that. That's why we have skills... And lets face it, we don't want this to become a complete text based game. It's a balance between RP and Skills... and right now it's a good balance.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:16 pm

Nilo wrote:Too lax.

That's funny.. Have you seen the latest noobies around?

I'd say they didn't even go through an account process.

yes.. too lax.

And also.. I think we need more evil characters... more thieves, maybe even some murderers...

Perm death is out of the question.. That's what skill loss and item loss is for = so people Do take dieing seriously.

But unforunately, I must say, that you cannot simply role play something.. I don't think that all players always go for that. That's why we have skills... And lets face it, we don't want this to become a complete text based game. It's a balance between RP and Skills... and right now it's a good balance.

I've actually changed my view on newbies to good. My recent roleplay with some of them was, wel, I would even dare call it ecstatic

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:30 pm

Hmm Well some... I've seen a few that could use help though.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:27 pm

ahh but under your wonderful tutoring I am coming along in leaps and bounds nilo

. Jokes aside though I do see myself as newb still, what it has been 3-4 months? It has been my humble observation in that time that is being such a unique game attracts unique players. Generally a new player who doesn't quite get it weather that is on a rp or emmersion level will fade out over time. Those who it really grabs like me slowly get better over time and through this simple process of elimination we are left with a community of decent and awesome rp.
Also a little effort goes a long way, I will use byron for an example not to pick him out, merely as he and I have spent a decent amount of time in game. I am able to commend him for coming from abysmal and disruptive to a point were I actually missed his funny character in game. He is a new player and his rp if you look at it is comeing along in leaps and bounds.
There are all sorts of little skills like being able to animate these simple pixels with words that I as a new player really didnt even think of. It was people taking the time to rp with Pendar and include a rather bland new arrival that enabled me to up my rp.
Of course we cannot always stop what we are doing and take a new player by the hand, Something I find more and more as Pendar has more plots on the go. What we can do how ever is be sure to invite the unknowen number over to our communal fires, invite them to the tavern or find odd jobs like gathering wool or such. All of which puts them in direct contact with more confident rper's "lets get away from better and worse for a moment". Which in turn helps them up there game.
-----------
The topic at hand,
In game justice is always going to be a tricky one. As if we have a crime which involves 6 people. We have nearly 6 seperate desires people want realised.
We also have a criminal who thinks his rp was great and plot cool. A victim who may or may not be into the rp and agree. A guard or judge role who at certain points may just be wishing he didnt have to deal with this right now. The other "3" are by standers who are either bored enough to cause trouble,,,have characters who would be involved or had there rp/lives disrupted by this and would love a lynching.
Behind the screen we propably have one happy player. Soon to be unhappy as he is going to be stomped on, One player trying to adjust his rp to his new role as victim. As well as four others humming along and wanting to get back to what they were doing.
The actual point of all that, the only way we are ever going to have a content sense of ingame justice is people are sensative when playing both roles crime/punishment.
I think the idea of stalks more acessable jails and courts that pull the offender and public in more are wonderful ideas. How ever the true solution lies in everyone playing along responsibly. Criminals picking victims who will rp along well. Guards and other positions of power not being to quick to deal harshly. Basically rping balanced with pking.
A good example of this has been Pendar relationship with members of the skulls. Being unable to kill them, I decided to engage them in RP and in some cases befriend them. Guess what I have been pked by one skull in town, and I looked for that one. Generally when Pendar is on guard we see very few citizen versus skull skirmishes in town. Simply as we found a middle road to rp that suited all chracters involved with out pking.
In the end the skulls still stole Eliza and we all got a few good battles in.
The main point is that everyone was mature enough to seek a resolution not based on pking/skills. Now thats good rp and negated many of the issues that come from a poor punishment system.
Right having put you all to sleep, with this I think I may log in for a while
Pendar

Ghásh Wargclaw · Post by **Ghásh Wargclaw** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:29 pm

Well back to the thing about thieves and them getting their hands cut off, isn't that quite easy to implement. It wasn't that unusual that someone got thier hand cut off for stealing and you could do this IG, by ucupying that hand and ring- slot with a red mark..

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:23 am

Cain wrote

the town guard and such would clear up and I would be able to start liking the town guard on an OOC level (Cain will still dislike the town guard, of course ).

well I never. next time I will tilt your pukeing head the other way and let you choke

That was some pretty good RP though. Later that day it was my turn after a rather sever beating I recall lol.

You make a valid point though, Rp is better when people play with a cause and affect outlook. Trips to the cross and such should be taken seriously. I do try and employ affect in my rp, Pendar will limp after a beating. Need stitches after loseing an axe duel. Generally after a trip to the cross I will avoid all forms of combat for at least +- 24 hours "3 illarions days?"not to mention bleed all over any one near by.
This serves two purposes, number one keeps Pendar cautiouse secondly gives a sense of achievment to however bested me. They can gloat with out me reaching for my axe or if they chose possibly get away with what ever action I was apposed to. I really try and approach my rp as if there was no cross, my character doesnt enter into combat lightly and really trys to avoid injury.
This can go a long way as far as ingame justice goes for both partys good and bad

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:54 pm

Pendar wrote:Cain wrote
the town guard and such would clear up and I would be able to start liking the town guard on an OOC level (Cain will still dislike the town guard, of course ).
well I never. next time I will tilt your pukeing head the other way and let you choke

Now now, no need to confuse ooc with ic

I agree though.. it was very enjoyable RP. It was the best played RP I had seen in a while (not just because I was in it, but because I forced others into making a decision as to whether or not they should take action; a form of forced roleplay I consider very important to a successful roleplay session).

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 5:19 pm

Forced roleplay is good sometimes. People just don't like it on an OOC level. Well in real life, we don't have a choice on what others do to us, just those forcing the RP have to make sure they do not go to far (( Example : #me rips your eyes out and poops down your throat)) I do hwoever hate it whenyou come across a character/player that is acting like a god. You throw a rock at them and they will always dodge them. Try and kick them they block. Come up behind them and try to push them they "#me stands his ground". That just gets really annoying.

And as for the whole cross thingy. If one of my characters die, I walk them to the cross, then logg out immediately. Then I suauly do not logg into them for about...oh...5-6 das real life. And then I play them as being injured, but that is just me.

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:29 am

Speaking of which, sorry I didn't take the chair that one day. Moskher is so physically vulnerable that my thought was it would be unbelievable that he could take a chair to the face and still stand up. I felt guilty about it afterwards, actually.

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:01 am

lol, that was fine hun...I had fun being all grumpy and dumb

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:05 am

well, a weak elven woman hitting you with a chair is somehow strange

.

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:18 am

It was an orc, Galim, and she threw it.