Items Decaying on the Ground

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 9:04 am

I don't remember how it works, but either an item has a "time limit" on how long it can be on the ground, or the server simply "cleans up" the ground every few minutes or so. Since items can only be traded by placing them on the ground, those items will eventually vanish at some point when traded, or simply vanish because of an unlucky "clean up" moment by the server. This is extremely annoying and unfair, and it just happened to me half an hour ago (to which I would be really happy if my 12 ingots could be restored). It is also extremely senseless to the roleplay. How are the characters supposed to respond to items that just vanished for no reason in the RP?

So I propose that items simply stop decaying on the ground or stop getting "cleaned up" by the server. I don't even really remember a good reason why we have this feature in the first place. The only reason I can think of is to prevent the ground from getting littered with items, but it seems to me this should really an in-game matter for the characters. Since we now have the email-application system, I think we won't have as many "fools" who might litter for no reason too. Besides, almost every item has some kind of value so I think they would get picked up eventually anyways. So I think most items don't need to decay, except for maybe chests and vases.

This would also allow people to create some quests where they can hide some money or items somewhere.

Or if "unlimited life" for items doesn't work, can't we at least change it so that items have a "renewed time limit" each time it gets picked up?

On a related note, it also doesn't make any sense that you cannot see who picked up an item. Isn't there a way to make it so that whenever somebody picks something up, there is a message "XXXX picked something off the ground" or something like that?

Draakon · Post by **Draakon** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:52 pm

What it really all comes to is a question of lag and server strain.

I am almost entierly sure that if you do pick up an item and put it in your inventory (belt), bag or depot, it does get a renewed "lifespawn". However if you just move it around the ground it does not.

The real problem is not people littering with massive amounts of items (althought that still seems to happen from time to time...) but rather the massive monster killings where people do not care to take what is dropped or just take some of it. It causes lag just like the flame spells do even if they may be worse cause they are a bit animated. Just about every game has this cleanup feature for this reason, not to overload the machine running the game. It causes great lag and may result in a freeze or crash after awhile. Also even if the server can handle alot, the people with a lower connection would notice it very fast and probably for many it would be impossible to play.

As for people "stealing" items off the ground and pretending like nothing or even worse claiming it was a server cleanup or that they decayed is just lame and not good RP at all in my opinion. But everytime someone picked something up and it said something like "#me picks something up from the ground" you can just imagine the spam. It is alot like the sniping with distance weapons (wich is not allowed without a #me command but still happens every so often). To make an example take two mages, two archers and someone running around picking up the items at the mummie ruins: #me forms silent words with the lips, #me fires an arrow, #me picks up something off the ground etc etc. I agree it would be good so people could not get away with such things in a non RP manner but with all the spam it would cause I think it is somewhat impossible to have it this way.

We need to trust people to RP well and we need to trade over items fast to avoid this. I have however been thinking of another solution to get away from such problems and I might as well put it here.

The trading table. Looks like a table but acts like a depot in a way. Some of the tables in the shop and the marketplace could be used for instance in this manner, creating a traders safe haven in a way. You "open" the table like a depot and can there put what you want to trade, now only one more person can access it so there can only be two chars opening the table at the same time. Of course they both need to see the same contence in there and can place down what they wish to trade and then pick it up. Without having to worry that the items will dissapear or that someone will walk by and just snatch them off the ground they can trade safley over the table. Of course the one you trade with might still rob you or swindel you but you will know who it was and they cannot lie themselves out of it without any RP. Now trading say 250 logs this way would not work cause you cannot carry that much, but before anyone points this out try putting 250 logs of wood on a table...

I think this would be a nice feature to promote some nice regular trading, some will say we do not need it and others will say it is useless because it will not let you trade ridiculous high amounts of items. I think it would however take away some of the stress factor when trading and allow those who really like to trade and make good bargains to roleplay a better form of trading.

Armil Darken · Post by **Armil Darken** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:45 pm

I agree with dyluck, but chests should never decay, because you could make player rp, by setting the on the ground with a treasure and the going for a hunt, at they would have a key when you make them, ((Maby Item: Lockeable Chest. and you could have a lot of fun with that, but vases thould break if a player tries to walk into them for like 10 times.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 6:09 pm

just make vases attackable, and when they get smashed, *POOF* they are no more.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 8:47 pm

and then people are going to powergame by making tons of vases and destroying them. It raises a multitude of skills.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:00 pm

Draakon wrote:What it really all comes to is a question of lag and server strain.

I am almost entierly sure that if you do pick up an item and put it in your inventory (belt), bag or depot, it does get a renewed "lifespawn". However if you just move it around the ground it does not.

I don't think so, because I lost an item that was placed on the ground for 2 seconds. Either that, or the server has a "clean up" function every few minutes. Actually when I think about it, items that are put on the ground 1 minute apart sometimes would still disappear at the same time.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:38 pm

Yeah I would have to agree with dyluck. About the vases breaking, don't give them health, just make it if they are targeted you hear a smash. This way nobody gains anything off them.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:52 am

Making things remaining on the floor (like in Tibia) would litter all Monsterspawns or have you seen someone taking all stuff from mummies or skeletons?
Also you could abuse this in various ways.

Items cant be made attackable.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:50 am

Keikan Hiru wrote:Making things remaining on the floor (like in Tibia) would litter all Monsterspawns or have you seen someone taking all stuff from mummies or skeletons?
Also you could abuse this in various ways.

Items cant be made attackable.

I think some would, if they were hunting for spoils, and not just for skills.
I know I picked everything up after killiing monsters when I started playing.
I'm think somebody would pick everything up eventually, because it has some kind of value. There aren't many "useless" items in Illarion.

If monster spawns get littered, I find that to be even better for the RP of the dungeon to have corpses and old armors etc lying around, and it would still be an in-game matter, unless it had some kind of technical drawback, like sever lag or something.

In any case, the simple solution is just allow every item to have a "renewed life" after it's picked up off the ground, and not using the timed "server clean up" method.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:03 am

Well, the server cleanup method not only affects items dissapearing, it affects plant growth,how long fires stick,around and when trees grow back. The renew time thing is really the only thing we need.

The pot smash thing, just use a weapon with the vase and *poof* if you can't target it. Would hinder the pot smasher as they would have to move their curser farther.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:40 am

@keikan- You can bet that when I started playing, and was just a fisherman (which isn't much of a living), I was picking up everything I could find to sell. Daggers/swords/shields. It is a good living if you can dodge the zombees, (because I was really weak). Make up to 2-3 ingots in a short time if a warrior is already there.

Draakon · Post by **Draakon** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:56 am

Well you are right Dyluck, items up on the ground one minute apart can sometimes dissapear at the same time due to a server cleanup. And well you must just have been real unlucky when you placed down the silver and got it wiped. However too much items on the ground does cause lag, perhaps not so much for those with a real good connection but I do not have a real bad connection (some kinda semi crappy cable connection) yet I still notice this if I am in an area and the ground is littered with items.

I think I played Tiba for a total of 2-3 hours but I am fairly certain that bodys from monsters and items do decay there as well, it does take a bit longer than here though.

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:34 am

1) When I go to kill zombies I take everything I can back to the shop to sell. Anyone who kills just to raise skill is powergaming.

2) Not all items have value. Take the Pen book for example. You cannot sell it to any players or the shop because most players get one right from the start (I don't know why the shop won't buy them when the human sells them for 200 gold). So if it did not decay it the zombie area would be covered completely in Pen books.

3) Maybe there could be an ooc warning before clean sweeps. A 1 minute warning would be enough time to get your stuff off the ground.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:16 pm

Or just a cleanup clock! Maybe the best idea yet, just have a timer pop up a minute or so before the cleanup, below the coordinates.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:40 pm

@Paul

Even if items could be attacked, the amount of skill you gain comes from the difficulty of the creature you fight. You can't possibly gain any skill by attacking something that is inanimate, and not having any known combat skill.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:24 pm

Draakon you might want to make a trip at the marketplace and inspect the tables there a bit closer.
Just a thought.

Draakon · Post by **Draakon** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:33 pm

LOL Keikan, please tell me you just made to be this way and not that it has been so for like half a year or something...

Edit to save some space:
What I really was wondering was if I have just not noticed this ever since I started playing or if it was made this way cause of my proposal wich was pretty much like that

Anyway I think it is great and it adds alot to the use of the marketplace so hopefully soon we will have all the merchants gathering there and lines forming to buy from them.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:54 pm

It wasnt that way since a nice (not me) Person decided to change it.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:54 pm

where is this "marketplace", below the tavern?

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:00 am

Agree with dyluck, like lockable chests, get rid of mummies dropping pen books, problem solved.

An Keikan means the shop, I do believe.....dont you oh sarcastic one?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:14 am

I was not being sarcastic, this is a good interesting feature.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:02 pm

Not YOU gro'bul, Keikan

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:56 pm

How does the new table work:

You can use the tables at the marketplace like a backpack (rightclick to open).
So you can present the costumer all the goods you offer.
Your items will stay as long you have "opened" the table, but if you leave the table the items will start to decay as if they where on the ground.

This feature is quite new, so if you encounter bugs or problems, please report them.

Sean,
you should be able to find out where the marketplace is by yourself.
A hint:
There are many tables standing at a large place and its not inside a building.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:18 am

Just a note: There is (was) an issue with decayed items retaining their decayed value even when picked up.

At one point I was going to fix this, but then I realized I used it to make cabbage seeds. I would sit them on a ground for a while, then get bored and pick them up, then sit them down somewhere else for a while. Eventually they would decay to seeds.

I couldn't think of a good way to fix it for regular items (silver, shovels, etc..) and not for things you would want to decay (cabbage, etc...).

A small note though, from what I remember. If you don't want your silver to decay, once you pick up some silver stack it onto a silver you haven't dropped. I seem to recall that stacks of items retain the decay value of the item they're stacked onto (90% sure, might be other way around).

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:36 am

Whoa thats really neat, Great idea puting the "depot" in the table. I noticed the tables were different thats really neat, Keep up the good work.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:51 am

items do decay on tables, unlike depots.

Rynt · Post by **Rynt** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 8:03 am

Yeah, it guzzled up my firesword....oh well. My character is a sucky fighter anyway!

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 8:11 am

Your items will stay as long you have "opened" the table, but if you leave the table the items will start to decay as if they where on the ground.

Will the item start it's decay function if the following occurs?
1. Person A opens the table and puts an item down.
2. Person B opens the table and sees the item.
3. Person A leaves the table / Or Person B leaves the table

Or:
1. Person A opens the table.
2. Person B opens the table and puts an item down.
3. Person A leaves the table / Or Person B leaves the table

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:24 am

I just read the start of the thread (the first page), so forgive me if I repeat something already written.
As mentioned, in Tibia nothing decays. I remember old times, when there were just about 10-30 player online: we had big problems, because on certain spots there were so many items on the floor, that one was not able to log in there anymore. Furthermore, most people logged off automatically when entering these areas.
This lead to situations that characters had to be resetted by the developers, because they were not able to log in anymore.
Some people with good internet connections, like Alatar and myself, decided to clean these areas by hand. We started and after some while we noticed that there were certain fields where we put several 100 items away and there still were items lying around on this tile. So we decided to create a macro (something that repeats a mouse movement over and over again). After doing that, and after starting this macro, we found out that there were tiles where we had over ten thousand (!!!) items on ONE tile! (You may ask Alatar about that, he'll certainly remember it

)

Now, since Alatar is so to speak the chief of Illarion, you will never convince him of not letting items decay. In Tibia, these items on the floor were the main reason for lag in these days!

Martin

Rynt · Post by **Rynt** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:36 am

Tibia is good, but there is no roleplay and playerkilling is a hoge problem...That's why I quit. I was Pked as soon as I reached mainland.