STOP POWERGAMING

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:29 am

ya, that is a nice idea but very hard. i wanted only to look how strong a spell is, and suddenly i died. a wanring would be nice, and not a sudden death (or perhaps just at death after a spell after the first one on himself). not everyone who spoke a spell on himself want to do powergaming. i just wanted to look how strong the spell is, nothing else, curiosity shouldn't be punished so hard.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:51 am

I think they should make it so, if you cast an offensive spell upon yourself absoluetly nothing happens. No one can powergame from it. No one can die from accidently doing it.

John Laffing · Post by **John Laffing** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:20 am

Though Grant has a great idea, I dont think that it would be realistic that way. In RL, if you accidentally light a match and catch your clothes on fire, you would get hurt. I would say that the magic would do damage on yourself, but you wouldnt earn any magic skill from standing in it. That way people could see how much skill they have, but yet they cant train.

Saurin Talon · Post by **Saurin Talon** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:16 am

Powergaming is so stupid!

Today i met an Orc with a 47*** number and he already owned a War-Axe, he wanted me to duell, I already had trained for a month in usual way by fighting some mummies or train with friends, he told me that he had no skills (ha ha), I was wearing full Knights Armor and firesword and this Orc killed me wit 3 hits, that really seems to me to be powergaming!!!

gez. Saurin

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:28 am

a 47*** number doing that? kinda getting spooky around here.

Kincent Nolatri · Post by **Kincent Nolatri** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 10:40 am

AAAHHH....newbies take over the Trollsbane soon the'll be take down Dax,and Muten with the evil powergammeing weapons of DOOM

Muten Rôshi · Post by **Muten Rôshi** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:55 am

I think you should be able to cast spells on yourself without dying instantly. Perhaps spells that you cast on yourself could do 10% more damage, or have a chance of almost killing you, like a 95% damage hit. Only spells casted by other persons and possibly monsters in the future could be used to raise magic resistance. But if it is decided that the old ways will be kept, at least the message you get upon casting a spell on yourself should be altered, I think most of the time when someone casts on themself it is an accident or they don't know that it kills you instantly, and they probably don't even know about the magic resistance skill if they don't know that spells kill you. The people who cast on themselves are most likely not doing it to powergame, they are only doing it on accident or they are a newer player just learning how the game works. Perhaps a message such as "You lose control of the spell and it backfires on you." would be much better than a "STOP POWERGAMING!", since the current message accuses the player of attempting to break rules, when they could be a perfectly decent player.

Kincent Nolatri wrote:AAAHHH....newbies take over the Trollsbane soon the'll be take down Dax,and Muten with the evil powergammeing weapons of DOOM

Not going to happen, maybe to Dax but not me. I don't think it's possible to get to my level with the new 10x skill change and all the other updates made to the game since I created the character Muten Rôshi

.

Christiana · Post by **Christiana** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:38 pm

with which rp reason do you want cast attack spells on yourself? is there a reason for something like that? i think not. no one cuts withe a dagger in his leg to look how "good" the dagger is.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:25 pm

Christina, I doubt you can compare a dagger to magic as magic is mythical and something the gods control. Secondly, Saurin, it doesn't take much skill to kill anyone with a war axe. As long as he can hit you he can kill you in 3 hits. The war axe is one of the strongest weapons in the game.

Christiana · Post by **Christiana** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:33 pm

why not? what are the differences between a icebolt and a dagger. both is to make damage on an enemy. no one is so dumb to test a damage spell on himself. possible testobjects are pigs or sheeps, and not yourself.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:42 pm

I think that Magic can be easily compared to cold steel weapons, I've been on a shooting range yet I not even once thought to try to shoot myself with the gun. That would be pretty stupid, wouldn't it? Even if it would raise my ability to resist bullets, it would still be stupid - no doubt about that. (Even though guns aren't cold steel - hot lead instead, forgive me this one)

So, I doubt that even if you would not ever had put your head into a campfire just to 'try it out' or 'because it shouldn't really kill you' you are stupid and lack something very essential to every living being - common sense.

You said it, Grant. Magic is something mythical and controlled by higher powers, perhaps they just don't appriciate people who have no idea of what they are doing to tamper with it. Get a someone to teach you, that would be a more 'realistic' way of learning magic anyways.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:57 pm

I've tried to get someone to teach Grant how to use magic, actually Dyluck did give him a free lesson once. But their aren't any good teachers... Most just want you to begin casting on them as they heal themselves as a "Game".

*The player of Grant thinks of starting his own magic school...*

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 7:53 pm

Magic is comparable to cold steel.

You shoot an ice bolt at you. Suddenly you are frozen and you have a hole in yourself.

You take a sword and stab yourself. Now you bleed and have a hole in yourself.

Different methods same results.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:03 pm

I ment it as, anyone can wield and use a metal weapon. Few people can use magic. You can compare them, but not everyone knows what runes do what. Espeically beginners who don't have a teacher and are just messing around with runes and accidently kill themselves. I think it would be best for offensive spells not to have any effect on your character, maybe not realistic, but so is hitting yourself with an ice bolt.

Christiana · Post by **Christiana** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:19 pm

if you cast on a pig you can see the effect

Ghoun · Post by **Ghoun** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:36 am

You all just think about effects and reasons... why don't you once think about what magic means? Every magician knows that magic is the most powerful weapon - if you know how to use it, of course! So it has to be something you have to be careful with - why shoot oneself then... As an unexperienced or beginner you should know that, too, because noone trusts in something or someone he doesn't know, else he'd be a little crazy.
All these weapons you compared magic with are NOT comparable with magic! That would be too superficial. With a weapon in your hand you know what to do with it after a few seconds. With magic? Will this spell kill or heal? Will it support someone or make him feel awful pain? With a sword you know you can just kill and hurt. With magic, I am talking about "white magic" aka "cleric magic", you can help, revive and heal people. With "black magic" aka "necro magic" you can cause mental pain, drain someone's energy or reanimate creatures to gain control of them. With "nature magic" aka "druid magic" you can control the powers of the nature and the elements, like calling animals for help or casting wind. The fourth one is the combinated one, there are two possibilities: "offense magic" and "defense magic", you should know what I mean by that.
Using magic is definetly a LOT diffrent from using a physical weapon!

The current option that offense magic kills oneself is a very good option that way because it makes you learn quickly to be careful and think about what you are doing. So why change that?!

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:45 am

I say if you want to see how good your magic is cast on a pig or on the ground (outside of town). There should be no reason why a person would want to cast an offensive spell on themself.

Wryvren · Post by **Wryvren** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:48 am

Well... the only defense I can provide for those who are casting offensive things upon themselves is that perhaps it's their first time using the spell and they don't realize it will be an aggressive spell. But then again, if you're trying them on yourself in fear of accidently giving someone a bonus or ticking them off... I'd expect you to recieve the worst possible effects from any aggressive spell (no defenses for them to work through).

So if you cast fire on yourself, it would be like you're burning your own blood...and I'm pretty sure that would kill you.

Kinamon · Post by **Kinamon** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:48 pm

Realistically - you are learning magic. You have just learned your nifty fire bolt spell or something. I would think you would get better at casting your new spell by shooting it at a tree over and over. So, casting it at yourself would also give you casting experience. You should take full damage depending on your skill, no more, no less, from casting spells on yourself.

So not only should you be able to cast on yourself and become more skilled, you should realistically be able to cast it on trees and rocks. Of course, nothing compares to real battle experience, so skill gained from attacking rocks should be limited.

The same goes for stabbing trees, although I don't think stabbing a tree would be very good for training. Maybe shooting arrows into a tree would.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:24 am

Read the following threads:

http://www.illarion.org/community/forum ... owergaming

http://www.illarion.org/community/forum ... 98&start=0

Here is a good, simple reason why casting on yourself is likely to kill yourself.

Cain Freemont wrote:

What are the spells that people cast? Look at the graphics. Most consist of some type of explosion. If a mage cast that on himself, he would have no defense, being concentrated on the magic, and therefore would let down his physical stability. The mage would likely die from a spell backfire. That's how I see it.

It's also bad roleplay, as your char feels pain. I know I wouldn't shoot myself in the face to see how much damage it would do, casting a spell would not be further than the same.

Furthermore, mages are intelligent people. If an intelligent person wanted to know what a potentially dangerous spell would do they would not think to cast it on themself, knowing the outcome could kill or harm them. An intelligent person would ask another mage what a spell does or try it on an animal.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 9:35 am

..Or another person.. *cough*

Borak de Golvan · Post by **Borak de Golvan** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:21 am

No question that powergaming sucks....
Today i met someone that i gave his first job in Illarion a month ago.
He just arrived at this Day. Today he met me again and asked if
i would need Platearmor....
I am in Illarion since half a Year, and i hardly manage to smith those,
since i am a smith too! What a world are we living in....
It may sound crazy, but sometimes i wish a serverreset would be made,
so that those PG's, who would surely be too angry about the loss of their
skills, would leave the game... then powergaming would have to be prevented by everyone who watches the world and its persons contained.
I wouldnt mind if i had to begin once more, as long as those PG's would
be stopped by it....

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:55 pm

Your logic is crippled, since the PG's would just have to start from beginning, which really wouldn't be a problem since they would PG some more and be as good as they were before in matter of weeks or months.
The ones really hurt would be those who have spent like six months in mastering blacksmithing, like yourself.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:07 pm

yes I find that quite annoying that people are as powerful and as skilled at crafting as those who have played for months apon months. By the way im at school hehe.

Hagen von Rabenfeld · Post by **Hagen von Rabenfeld** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:37 am

Lets be honest Hermie....lately most chars seem to be immune to pain. Did it ever happen to you get in trouble with a person and kill him, then immidiatelly after he went to the cross he comes back and insults/attacks you again, although it must have hurt to die? People standing about and not fighting back while a scorp is constantly biting them? Or people thanking you for improving their parry by killing them?(Btw araduul i really doubt it works

)

To the matter about casting on oneself.
Even newbies can go into the library and read about the runes they are up to test. Or you can ask another magician. If you roleplay good enough to think about reading about your new aquired magical toys, you know that this or that spell will hurt and prolly wont cast them on yourself. If you do not think about the situation how it would be in real life(well actually the fantasy stories of real life) and simply cast a new learned rune upon yourself although magic is supposed to be dangerous and quite unreliable, especially if you start to learn it, well then i would bet this goes wrong. And you might die by doing this. Perhaps the message should be changed to "stop the bad roleplay" but this is nothing urgent. Id prefer the GMs to care about more important things.

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:08 am

I have casted an offensive spell on myself before. not to test how much damage is being done or to power game, but because i mixed up the rune combo

I dont think thats 'bad' roleplay especialy since i'm a halfling so maybe you shouldnt get a message at all when you cast on yourself.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:06 am

yeah I was trying to heal myself when I accidentally hit ra with pen BOOM, ouchies.

Hagen von Rabenfeld · Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:37 pm

@Grobul+Vindigan

I was refering to the comment that it is unfair to newcomers, to die because they tested their spells on themselves/that they get accused of PG if they do so and die instantly. And about what happened to you...well magical accidents

as you both werent up to PG dont feel addressed by the message, after all.

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:38 pm

I have seen also a lot of 47.. 48... number players who easily kick the crap out of demons. I can really name 10 easily.
Scary.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:34 pm

Casting on yourself can be an accident. For example. Today I was fighting Elaralith, i was kicking her bottom. I was using a wand, and was jumping around so she couldnt hit me. Except when I clicked on hept kel I guess I did it to fast and when i clicked to jump i casted on myself. I think it should just negate out. it would have saved me a ton of skill since Elaralith blocked the way to the cross........