I propose putting the Depot back at the mining area.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:57 pm

Don't even say removing it was logical, because it wasn't, getting rid of it has done nothing but make it harder for smiths, and miners, it's illogical, that the place to store items is removed from the busiest spot, it means that people have to walk further, and they can't even store the smithed items they make, it's just stupid.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:29 pm

Do you remember the 'Workshop', with anvils right next to the depots?
No? What a pitty.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:35 pm

Hmm, it's quite amazing, that miners have to haul their ore to the other side of town to do that.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:12 am

No, they dont need to. Just sell them to a Smith and you are free of your Load.

Dont expect us to encurage Multi-Job-Characters.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:18 am

Ok, so then the smith has to haul all the way to the other side of town.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:32 am

Pay someone to haul them to the other side of the town
-> another profession to earn money with

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:12 am

ya, but you have to trust that person to do that.

Cuderon · Post by **Cuderon** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:00 am

That´s right... but no credibility, no job. And nothing spreads faster than a rumour.
I think that is a perfect job for future newbies: help others by doing low-level jobs to earn the first gold. Tools (to start a own trade) aren´t cheap

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:17 am

(recently edited for non-spoiling purposes)

Not encourage multi-jobs hm?

I'm fairly sure that smithing shovels and hammers requires the skill of something to get something for the items. I myself would purchase the item from players, but newbies and greenhorn smiths such as myself will never gain profit if we're too busy paying for that item to make shovels and hammers that break every ten or so turns...

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:24 am

Keikan Hiru wrote:No, they dont need to. Just sell them to a Smith and you are free of your Load.

Dont expect us to encurage Multi-Job-Characters.

Mining and smithing both go pretty much hand in hand... if you're one, then you're the other. Its common sense, not multi-job.

Cuderon · Post by **Cuderon** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:47 am

Why don´t you get yourself an older, experienced smith that suplies you with tools and dig for loan? If you earned enough gold you still can try to become a good smith yourself. That sounds logical to me and supports the interaction between the players.

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:31 am

Don't get me wrong, I think all the depots was rather convenient, but I also thought there were too many depots. I know it's kind of annoying having to walk so far but it is more realistic.

As a matter of fact, I think there should be one building which would be the bank. The only depots would be in the "bank" building. There could be 5 or 6 scattered around in the bank so that just one wouldn't get crowded during busy times. ((Crocket stands back and waits for the rocks to be hurled at him.))

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:19 am

As annoying and really stupid as I thought it was, I do supoort this. If it was one thing that seemed to lack was the lack of jobs. Most of the smiths could easily mine so hiring someone to mine for them or carry things to and from a point was almost pointless. I feel this opens trade a bit more and encourages more realism. Could be worse, they could make it where anyone who smiths couldnt mine at all (wink)
~~Ark~~

Falk vom Wald · Post by **Falk vom Wald** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:44 am

I love that idea with one bank in town. I know that from UO and there it works great I feel.
But let us think a little bit into future, where - on an enlarged map - you may find several towns or occupied areas. And none of these will be blessed to have all kind of raw-materials. There will be an economic reason for a transport system, coal might go south, while gold comes from the east. Smiths will have to buy their materials and miners will have to sell. Traders will stand between them and handle the transfers.

This is not a dream. We are working on it.

(sorry for bad english)

Rynt · Post by **Rynt** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:48 am

Your English is better than most Americans, so don't worry about it.

Mandil Aglandol · Post by **Mandil Aglandol** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:17 pm

yes it is, hahaha especially were i come from hahaha, but back to the point.

You really are? thats amazing! i cant wait for that to happen....perhaps then...you will have a northern continent with....snow...*misses snow*

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:30 pm

Falk vom Wald wrote:I love that idea with one bank in town. I know that from UO and there it works great I feel.

This is true, but the reason the banking system in UO is so efficient is because:

A. It is a huge building and there are one to two per town.
B. You can teleport there from anywhere in the world if you have the right ingredients for the spell.

I really would like to know the exact reason for removing the depot from the mining area near the shop. Its great for a meeting place and its efficient when mining and doing other work. Most people would put storage as close as possible to their work area anyway simply because they do not wish to travel especially far.

Maktan Hardtooth. · Post by **Maktan Hardtooth.** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:06 pm

@ Cain .We are too successful so they stick another boulder in our path. they want us to be less independent and be dependent on others.

Fedaykin · Post by **Fedaykin** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:55 pm

Ok, I Propose to put a depot every 3 or 4 Steps away from each other at the mining area so nobody have to walk far if he wants to bring back his resources.
Then 5 or 6 depots at every Forest and one or two in front of the Dungeons. So we could have such a easy live, nobody has to Carry Heavy things. Or Maybe we could make it so that everybody could Carry his own depot so we dont need the other ones.

German:

Ich schlage vor das wie aller 3 der 4 Schritte jeweils ein Depot aufstellen so das keiner so weit laufen muss wenn er Rohstoffe zurück bringt. Dann noch 5 oder 6 Depots in jeden Wald und eins oder zwei vor jeden Dungeon. Damit könnten wir so ein leichtes leben haben weil niemand mehr schwere Dinge tragen muss
Vielleicht könnten wir es auch so machen das jeder sein eigenes Depot mit sich herumträgt so das wir die anderen gar nicht mehr brauchen.

Achso falls es jemanden entgangen seien sollte ist das nicht so Bierernst zu nehmen, ich finde es gut das dort kein Depot mehr ist.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:55 pm

have we already enough citizens for a larger number of cities? but iam sure you have thought about this. perhaps you have planed that not every raw material can be found in every city. perhaps you can get wood, ore and the other stuff only in the right cities. that would be better for the cities.

Maktan Hardtooth. · Post by **Maktan Hardtooth.** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:05 am

@ Fedaykin. nice idea! and everyone can be fat and happy. I know you are being sarcastic, so am I. but of course there would not make it so simpol as that. The only reason those GM,s did that is they think it will stop powergamming. give the player harder time to do something anf they would be too bored stiff to keep walking back and forth to store the few ores they can carry. as you can see by what I wrote I am neutral to te subject. I don't really care what the Gm's did, I say it is a pretty good reason though. better then raising the amount of items we make to be a master blacksmith. But unfortunately the GM's might go as far as there being so many limits, it will be two years before you are a master

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:27 am

@Cain Don't be a fool. Mining and smithing are two DIFFERENT things. Miner is a profession. Smith is one. Just because in the past skills were so easy to gain doesn't make "mining go hand in hand with smithing". That is powergaming and terrible Rp as it reduces player interaction.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:25 am

Shut up Elaralith. If you don't have anything useful to contribute then just shut the hell up. You're only insulting me by calling me a fool, not to mention you have a lot of room to talk considering I've seen you powergame before.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 1:50 am

Elaralith, i think it is no secret you have powergamed, but that is besides the point. The point is. When you start this game you are given a shovel and a hammer. So of course you mine ores and use the hammer to make more shovels or items. So you can see that they do go hand in hand as you need to blacksmith more shovels if you want to be a miner when you start this game. And of course you begin to take a liking in blacksmithing as you mine more and you become a great miner and a fairly good blacksmith. And that is that.

Now I propose that you start out with random items. Such as two shovels or two hatchets or two fishing rods or two needles. That way there wouldn't be tons of miners and blacksmiths but instead many different types of people with different professions.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:05 am

iam a good blacksmith, no mastermsith, but good. if i would pay for my ore and coal, i would pay more for this raw materials than i would get for the smithed items. i cannot afford it to buy the ore and coal. so i have to dig. thats the fact. and now it is the same with wood. i cannot afford it to buy ore and coal AND wood.

of course, i can sell the smithed items too players, but truly. who woould buy long axes or chainmails???

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:12 am

Hahaha, funny!
What is the point of hiring someone to haul your ore for you, if the speed is going to be same anyway? Just a waste of time and money.

The sad thing is that the forge used to be a place to socialize, now it's abandoned. Only smiths will stay there to await miners, and as soon as miners arrive, smiths will go back to the shop.

Why would it be a bad idea to make anvil an item possible to carry. A heavy item, so heavy that you could only carry one of them at a time, and only a master blacksmith would be able to smith it.
It would give smiths flexibility. They could go out in the forest, setup a tent under a tree, put their anvil, light up the coal and start their work.
Just a suggestion.

I agree with Grant on his last post. That is how most start, mining and smithing. That is how I did it at least.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:13 am

Galim wrote:
of course, i can sell the smithed items too players, but truly. who woould buy long axes or chainmails???

This is where the problem lies. No one wants chainmail or long axes. They only want the best. So people only save their money for the best, by selling to Eliza. However, that is not a "good thing to do" because it discourages player interaction. I think that the whole system of things needs a change, not just bits and pieces. Though, I still doubt it would promote player interaction, since the players have to actually WANT to interact. People are stubborn. You can't force people to interact, or they will just rebel more.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:18 am

Well, I think making Fire Swords unsmithable was a good thing. Secondly I think that because they have become rare prices will soar up so it will cost 10+ ingots. I also think they should make Knight Shields, Lion Shields, full plate mail, dwarven axes unsmithable. As they are the best of the best and that will help with people setteling for long axes.

And of course there is another way to do this, but I hope they don't consider it.... Make blacksmithing not a skill, and have players buy weapons/armor from and NCP that would sell them for enormous prices. That would make players settle for second rate things, but again I hope it does not happen.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:18 am

You are only using arguments that will change in the future, aren't you aware of this?

Currently we are changing many details. Therefore there are periods in the game where everything seems unbalanced.

Ever thought about the fact that someday items break?

Ever considered that tomorrow another aspect could be changed.

Please be patient and flexible. And do the thing we all should do:
Test the Game for flaws.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:20 am

Kiekan, what are the chances of my proposal with starting with random items to work with happening?