Powergaming

Seth Valor · Post by **Seth Valor** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:39 pm

Well, I have been away for a bit. But i have come back, and I see Very new people fighting demons.

I have seen some actually powergaming, but letting the flies, or the scropions hit them over and over, and not attacking them. It would be different if they were attacking them, but they werent.

i heard that is why they took away the animals in the first place, because people were powergaming.

My point of this messege is: is it okay to kill somone's character for powergaming?

Viola Thistle · Post by **Viola Thistle** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:41 pm

Killing a character for powergaming is mixing IC and OOC in my opinion, and isn't a role playable reason...Just me - I'm sure there are other opinions.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:04 pm

And just to make this clear, powergaming is not allowed.

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:07 pm

I mostly kill thier "Training-Monster" because my Character sees that the other Character is unable to defend himself.
I continue to "rescue" him, until the Player is fed up.

Of course, 'accidents' happen sometimes, even a Master Swordsman may slip a Swing with his Sword and sadly cut off the others Head. But this only happens in very rare Cases.

Draakon · Post by **Draakon** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:40 pm

I see alot of people letting flies hit them as well and scorpions too, that is powergaming and all who think this is a good way to train their chars should really stop. Besides, it is actually pointless if you want to be a strong warrior you need to fight like one.

In my opinion if you go and kill monsters that is not powergaming, it is killing monsters. This is what a warrior or fighter would do for the good of all keeping monsters at bay, for the treasures he can find, or if it is a rather battle hungry crazy person for the thrill of it. Or a mix of all.

Also I am pretty sure monsters were removed to do something else and not stop powergaming, I mean everyone was training and fighting everyone while the monsters were away. Never did I see so much dueling.

Now as for killing someone for powergaming I am pretty sure is just breaking another rule, and so you give them more reason to do it again to gain back skill I suppose. Try reminding them that they are breaking rules, I think many do it cause they see others do it and so it becomes sort of a chain reaction. And like Darlok said, helping them kill the monster that is attacking them is a good deed

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 5:21 pm

I do the same as Darlok I often see an elf or orc letting flies bite him so I simply cast some magic and "miss" the fly and blow the elf to smitherings, or I simply swing my mace and I swung to hard and hit the evil powergamer.
Also, yesterday I chased off a powergamer who was practicing magic on the ground. I told him to stop ruining nature and chased him off, I also told him to practice on monsters.

Freo · Post by **Freo** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 6:57 pm

My character is a semi old character, and he can barley fight demons, in fact if he does not have a partner or a large sum of potions, it is impossible. As many said earlier, if they are attacking the monster as well, than it is powergaming, but just because they are powergaming it does not give anyone the right to kill their character. Just use the "darlok" technique.

I feel kind of bad when I see a character with the number in the 4**** that can fight way better than my character...

Draakon · Post by **Draakon** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:22 pm

I am really a beliver that two wrongs do not make a right, killing someone for powergaming on flies seem rather futile, I mean just what does that accomplish? Keeping his skill down sure, but hardly helps RP enviorment in the slightest, say it is wrong remind of the rules without breaking them yourselfs and if it continues report. Also duh.. where did the idea of getting beat by flies and scorpions makes you a super figher come from? It is entierly pointless.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 7:54 pm

You can raise parry extremely fast if you let yourself get hit over and over by scorps and flies...
btw- I just caught a powergamer raising his parry with flies. I would say train with a friend to raise parry.

Hades · Post by **Hades** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:14 pm

I believe killing a powergamer is wrong, after having read all of the posts here, the best solution is killing the monster they are powergaming with.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 9:51 pm

that doesn't work Hades, if you did that the player would never learn. Punishment is the only solution, unless you want him banned.

Hades · Post by **Hades** » Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:42 pm

it does work, I kept "rescuing" a female elf, and she learned it was wrong to do.

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:29 am

Well, i saw a number 432** earlier. He can fight demons. That makes me mad. I cant even fight demons. I can barely fight skeletons. I no warrior, but that is strange. If you kill their "helper" then they simply get another. I dont know what to do. But, accidently missing does sound like a bad idea. I must admit. Anyway, If the player is not playing correctly, then i see it fit for his character to suffer. ...jsut my opinion.

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:32 am

Arn't you a Mage Nilo? I mean a 'real' Mage who can fire Ice Bolts?

You cant be both, Mage and Fighter. That will never work.
And after rebalancing the Fighting System, all true Mages should stay hell out of a Melee Battle, or they find themself on the Way back to a Cross soon.

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 3:41 am

Yes darlok, i am a "true mage". I am not a fighter. But i am a powerful mage at that, and can make my point through magic very well. I never said i was a fighter. So, why are you telling me this?

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:40 am

Because of that Line form you:

Well, i saw a number 432** earlier. He can fight demons. That makes me mad. I cant even fight demons.

Does sound to me like you want to take a Demon in a Melee Fight.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:29 am

Darlok wrote: You cant be both, Mage and Fighter. That will never work.
And after rebalancing the Fighting System, all true Mages should stay hell out of a Melee Battle, or they find themself on the Way back to a Cross soon.

When can we hope for this rebalancing? Is there a general time slot that we can expect it? I know the staff is very busy with many things, but I am merely curious and answering my question is not that vital, meaning I won't lose sleep over it if I don't know

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:55 am

Although I am new, I totally agree on severe punishment for powergamers, or rather on rescuing them.
My character, however, disagrees with more powerful citizens killing the new and weaker citizens, and I have witnessed a lot of these happenings.
I bet it is intimidating for the new.

Crosis · Post by **Crosis** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:26 am

I don't feel sorry for them if they're killed for powergaming. They should know the rules. And if they don't it's their own fault. If I see them I usually just kill the monster they are using and tell them that what they are doing is against the rules. I think it's gotten out of hand, I mean I see at least one person doing it everyday. It's starting to get on my nerves.

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 1:19 pm

I personaly write every ID Number down of a Player I suspect for Powergaming, if i meet him again i warn them with a Hint to the Rules.

If you keep catching this person again and again, or over a long period of Time, dont bring your Character in Danger with a PK (Killing for Powergaming is PK) but fill out the Webform and send it to violations@illarion.org.

Mostly the following happens:

1. Player gets warning through a GM
2. Character(s) lose all Skills
3. Characters get banned/deleted

(Ask Yizzan, or Ultimaweapon, he has gone through the Procedure)

Demli Dogan · Post by **Demli Dogan** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 3:23 pm

Well I think it should be alright to kill them if they are powergamming because they are braking rules and Darlok how do you know a lot about GM's. And what goes on and what they do...And you also knew all my charaters names so you have similarites of a GM and I could match you up with one by your attitude.

Just some food for thought

Callith · Post by **Callith** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:15 pm

Demli, he knows a lot about the GM's because he knows who they are, he has been around longer than most of us combined. He isn't a GM though, I know that for sure.

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 9:32 pm

Here is a quote from the rules on the homepage.

The killing of characters without a valid role play reason is forbidden.

Killing a character because the player of that character is powergaming is an ooc reason and is not a role play reason. If it bothers you that much that someone is powergaming then write the number down and send to violations@illarion.org

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:07 pm

Personally, I'm torn.

1. It is against the rules to powergame. Allowing a monster to attack you just to raise parry is definately powergaming, and is enough reason to get these characters/accounts banned.

2. It's not a good thing to kill a character without a valid RP reason.

So, what would I do, as a GM, if a player came to me because someone killed their character? And they killed them because they powergamed? Basically, I would ask the player who was killed if they were letting the flies attack them without defending. If they said yes I would either give them a warning telling them not to do it again, or I would ban them, depending on their attitude. I would do nothing to the one who killed them.

But, the rest may have different takes on this, but I've not seen any other GM say they would do anything about it.

Incidently, on the practice of laying poison on a shovel, I see that as blatant PKing. Laying a shovel on the ground to avoid carpel tunnel syndrome, IMO, is not a break of the RP rules. And, yes, when I mine I do it myself. It is valid, IMO, to be using a shovel in your hands or on the ground you are digging. Some may not like this, but to kill someone for this is PKing.

Draakon · Post by **Draakon** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:32 pm

Putting a shovel or sickle on the ground shows everyone in an easy way what you are doing and so I would actually argue that it holds RP purpose and adds to the enviorment rather than seeing tons of people standing around all quiet.

Hades · Post by **Hades** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 3:26 am

I agree, besides if you perform too many actions in a short amount of time the server kicks you off.