This game is turning into Tibia! - GM's this is the time to

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 11:47 pm

I am having no fun whatsoever with this game right now, because after hours and hours of work I die and lose all the skills I gained and more. This is becoming more of a waste of time each day I play. The Dwarf named Turf attacked me and all of us a few minutes before this post, and I have gotton killed twice for no reason whatsoever. This is an outrage, this is non-RP and not Illarion. I am only staying in this game because I need to hold up the Merchant guild, but I will leave if this continues! I am sick and tired of wasting my time! Everyone in Illarion will agree, this is not Roleplay, and I will not say "That's the way the game goes"! Because it's not the way the game goes! This is Tibia, not Illarion! Wheres the justice?!?!
Bror and the rest of the crew, if this isn't settled, I am afraid this game will be ruined.
Please, I have liked Illarion since day 1, but it is way too horrible to continue!
I think I will play less often now, I see no point in getting killed by children.
Thanks.
Yours,
Erdrick.

sean · Post by **sean** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 11:56 pm

*SHOCKED SILENCE*

wow Erdrick I had no Idea you hated Mercs as much as me

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 12:29 am

I HATE people who kill without reason! I could see, in real life, (medieval times that is) A young warrior goes off to an awful demise at a dragon's lair. I cannor see, a peaceful wisecracking merchant walking about 2 feet and turning into a white poofy cloud instantly.
Actually, now that I think about it, I've been killed less in my whole Tibia experience than about the recent 5 months of Illarion.

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 2:59 am

Yes Erdrick it does see that people who are have innocent charactors get killed (I do not classify myself as innocent, After all I may be a target do to where I stand on most issues). I have heard about many other games that some of my REAL life friends play. Some of these are known for random killings yet it seems to me that Illarion is getting a lot more . There is a solution soon that I think is being worked on. (THe e-mail system). thanks everyone

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 3:14 am

Yes i've also noticed a great increase in that sort of thing... but i believe i have a reason that this is only starting to happen now instead of from day one. If you look at a game like Tibia, you'll notice that, frankly, it sucks.

The people there are impolite, they steal, cheat, pk, ect. Now you look at Past Illarion; nice people, polite, never steal, almost never pk. Well what's the difference...? Well 1) Tibia most likely does not enforce the rules as much e.i less banning and punishment. 2) The reason i belive this happens is there are more players playing Tibia the Illarion. When i started playing Illarion, the MOST amount of people you saw online at one time was 10, most often it was just a few people online at a time. Now it is easy to control 10 people online at a time and maybe about 100 active players. You maybe get one complaint a week or a couple a month. When there are so few it is easy to deal with, and there are less suspects from mysterious 'snipings' and thing's like that. If you look at Tibia...total chaos...too many people playing...no way you control that many people. Now as time progressed there was a positive correlation in the more people playing, the more pk incidents and the more unlawful illarion got. It's like a mob, when you have a mob going down a street, normal law abiding citezens who would never dream of stealing will start to break windows, do a little window shoplifting. Why? Because their face get's lost in the crowd it is no longer blamed on them, it is blamed on the mob and therefore nobody get's punished. I feel that is happening with Illarion.

Somebody dies, nobody was touching him so it was an archer. But people are coming and going and walking off the screen, logging in, logging out, why in a matter of minutes there is nobody left on the screen who was originally there when the incident took place. This makes it impossible to blame anybody. Sure you may have suspsicions, but you cannot ban somebody over a hunch. Way back when, when you have 3 people playing online at a time: O somebody dies, well 1 of 2 people killed him/her. Much easier to place the blame, and a punishment is carried out. So the more people that join illarion, the more people that are online at a time, the harder it is to control and police them. Why just today i was at the mining grounds, and this one guy kills the other. I ask: why did you kill him? Guy1: Because he stole my stuff. Me: So? did you tell it was yours? you din't have to kill him. Guy1: I told him at least 5 times and then he just ran off so i killed him. Guy2: I didn't steal anything! I wasn't even around! He never said anything! He just PKed me for no reason!. Now what the heck can you do in that situation? It's obvious somebody is lying, what's not obvious is who. So you just have to walk away. But you think to yourself: In that situation, was justice served? or was that just another Pk out of all the other ones that took place that day.

So is there really anything we can do? Not really. I mean, we could punish people right away, risk banning the wrong person, but hoping that we might get at least SOME of the Pk's off the street, right? Well i find that unfair, but i also find it unfair that one spends his day training and working on skills, only to find that it was all wasted when he fninshes for the day and get's his 'weekly PKing' or so it seems from the recent outbreak of them. There is no real way to get rid of this problem. Perhaps we could get more people made GM's and hope to have at least a couple of them on at a time to try and serve SOME justice. Or we could introduce that feature discussed in the Proposal Board and have a square appear underneath whoever has a lock on you. In fact that might solve all our PK problems, well it would solve them, but there would be no doubt on who's a PK and we can ban people with more certanty.

Thank you for reading this and sorry i wrote so much

dragonsoul · Post by **dragonsoul** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 4:09 am

i have to admit those are the same reasons i havent played for a long time, this is turning into a Tibia... and i didnt like it, now i very rarely come on, when i used to every night...

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 10:41 am

i'm really sorry for this "de-evolution" and i think, that has to be stopped. random-pk'ing, and that's what it obviously is, is not allowed.

however, i don't know what to do about it -- are there and suggestions?

martin

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 2:11 pm

I noticed that, too. At least, we still have more roleplay than Tibia. And right, it is hard to proove who did what, and it turns out to be a dammned lot of work for Bror to check all the logfiles again and again. This is becoming a full-time job for the administrator, Bror, and the GMs too.

But the solution to this problem is near. We will have an email account system soon, where players will have to be willing to roleplay, and to understand it. You will have to apply for accounts, and perhaps, you will need a Character story (at least a short one) when applying for a character. We want to avoid the writing of pages of text, but it will be enough to do that people will not just make another account for PKing and powergaming.

At the moment, we still have no exact idea how to realize the system. We guess that you will have to write an email to one of the GMs to get an account. An easier thing would be, of course, a database or forum like thing, a perl or CGI script, but who knows how to make these... so it will take a while.

So, be a little patient. We do the best we can. I will be back to action in about three weeks, when my tests are finished (and i either have to get a work or can study on hehe)

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:42 pm

Is it possible, with the E-mail system a total character erase, and we all start new? I think the people who really care about their character and names will approve of E-mail,
and get an account quicker than others (like Damien, Badmosche, Dyluck, and I)
I think as a suggestion that we E-mail the following:
We use the "Create Character" to do the basic stuff, to save E-mail space. The bottom part of the Create New screen (comments or whatnot) will be cut off. Then we send that form and the character story and a pledge to roleplay. We would have to cut down on the Char. Create form if we wanted to do this, so it wouldn't take 3-5 minutes for each e-mail to come in, but I think this would be the one and only way to keep people who have no interests in the point of Illarion (aka powergamers) out of our way.

Cosmaterra · Post by **Cosmaterra** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 10:23 pm

Greetings dear Erdrick,

i heard of your problems during the last days, and me and my pal Sir Sirius decided to invite you to a private training session, i hope we will met soon and can help you a littel.

You know were you find us.

Fare thee well, yours Cosma.

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 12:59 am

Thank you, Cosmaterra and Sirius, I don't know how to thank you both.
I am working on raising my normal skills, but it is very long.
I hope some action is taken in the next few days.

dragonsoul · Post by **dragonsoul** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 2:33 am

i hope so, i really dont mind starting over at all if it gets rid of our problem

martin · Post by **martin** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 9:17 am

are there any concepts you would like to propose...?

martin

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 7:56 pm

Err, concepts?

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 1:06 am

I think this is discussed in another german topic recently, but we need more active GMs.

dragonsoul · Post by **dragonsoul** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 3:19 am

how about taking a vote, see how much people dont mind starting over in order to obtain more RPing, if they agree, then delete all players and do the email thing where you have to have a story and all that, i think that will solve the problem some what, but quite obviously, there is not way to avoid powergamers, but at least this will rid us of most of em.

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 1:58 pm

I do not believe the e-mail system is ready yet but when it is I have no objection. (As long as I can keep my name)

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 2:53 pm

I would not mind at all having a new beggining

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 2:25 am

A complete wipe wouldn't be tooooo bad. Although i was rather proud of my 4-digit number...it earns respect...well not really. lol

sean · Post by **sean** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 4:45 pm

mine earns fear seth:)

with the new accounting system this will stop so i have heard

dragonsoul · Post by **dragonsoul** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:46 am

i agree i do get much respect for my number, but if it starts over, and if you sign up quickly, will you not receive a lower number???

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:21 am

There will be such a rush that the server will crash 24/7, if all the active players rush to get a new number, it could be really insane.

Plus the people who have been here since the beginning do not get proper respect.

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 9:11 am

obviously, the introduction of these numbers wasn't a good idea...
on the other hand, one could interpret them as age. well...

martin

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:56 pm

Yes, but then think:
What would we do without them? It would be total chaos again!

Nanuk · Post by **Nanuk** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 2:09 pm

I also think, that these numbers seem to have a very strange effect on people. Maybe I should make a tattoo on my forehead with this number. I might earn some more respect in real life

.

For the next char-wipe, why not distribute the numbers in a random order. Than we have solved this "problem" of a number rating but instead come to more realistic rating based on behaviour and knowledge.

Nanuk

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:56 pm

randomly distributed numbers are a bit more tricky to realize...

martin

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:28 pm

Yes, they are used as age. It is the only way to tell how old a character is ingame from a first look. In real life, you can easily tell a 4 year old from a 40 year old on first glance. With just random numbers, someone could easily mistake anyone for a newbie. The numbers are one thing that make me prefer Illarion over Tibia.

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:05 am

yes, i agree the numbers are important, i do not think it fair that someone who had a number like 1442 and then ended up with 16243 or vise-versa. I also use the numbers as an age as well, i think that it is important that we keep the numbers

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Sat Mar 09, 2002 10:40 am

I don't think, that the numbers are realistic for age. Cause how can you complain the age of elves and humans ... normally elves are much older ....

But I think, the numbers are important to know people, like you reme4mber faces of people, you have met, but didn't know their name.
Also it may be a sign of the date, when you arrieved on this marvellous iland. A little sign of honour for the ones, who enjoyed and played this game for a long period and helped to make it a great game with their suggestion and roleplay.
I would agree, if it is possible to do this in programming the new server, that the numbers be the same, as before.

Josphe · Post by **Josphe** » Sun Mar 10, 2002 6:42 am

If anyone has played a game called RuneScape (www.runescape.com) since the beggining, I think they would know what I'm about to say.

Early on, this game was a Pking RPG. Then the Gowers, creators, noticed there was a large number of complaints that people were dieing. New player were quitting because they can't get out and explore the land because whenever they log-in they would be killed by older, meanier and more experienced players.

So they introduced a safe-land. Where new-players can hang around and learn the basics of the game. Where merchents, miners and blacksmiths can do thier jobs in peace. This land was like heaven for the people who wanted peace.

But, once you've stepped over the bridge and into the outter world. You'll see utter chaos. People killing each other for no particullar reason. Cursing and swearing was a normality. And hatred etc... was seen everywhere.

Again, the Gowers would recevie a large amount of complaints about this. So they introduced another system. You get to chose whether you want to became a NPK or a PK. (Npk= Non-Player Killing.) When you're a NPK you can't attack other people, and the Pk's can't attack you. This was all good and fair and the game took one giant leap into success.

There was a hole in this plan, as all of you can see. Once you've chosen to be a NPK, you become strong and suddenly, you want to become a PK. So they introduced ANOTHER SYSTEM where you have 2 changes. You can change from Pk-Npk and back to Pk. And you can't change anymore. This was by far the best system.

Unfortuneatly, people complained again. They can't change, and they're stuck at PK or NPK. But they don't like this. They started quitting. Quickly the Gowers developed the BEST player killing system.

THE WILDERNESS!!
An area where you can PK. And that was the only area. The wilderness is a large space where dangerous monsters and treasure is held.
When you're in the 'shallow' end of the wilderness (meaning you're near the entrance of the Wilderness), let's say you're in the Level 1 area of the wilderness. This is an area where only fellow players 3 levels above or below you can attack you. If you step into Level 2 of the Wilderness, people 6 levels above or below you can attack you. Etc...

As you go to the deeper end of the Wilderness (Level 42) almost EVERYONE can attack you.

___________________________________________________________________________
Here's the development of RuneScape's PKing system in point form.

*STAGE 1-/ Every one can attack you everywhere. (Kinda like Illarion now)
*STAGE 2-/ Introuduction of the safe-haven. (Outside, people 20 levels above or below you can attack)
*STAGE 3-/ The new system. Npk's and Pk's.
*STAGE 4-/ 2 switches is allowed.
*STAGE 5-/ Wilderness. Inside the Wilderness, people can attack you. Outside the Wilderness, no one except the Computer Generated monster/creatures can attack you.
___________________________________________________________________________
Unmentioned things:
*Some of these CPU creatures you can attack, some you can't (eg. Shopkeeper)
*Some CPU creatures will attack you when you're near.
*Some CPU creatures won't attack you when you're near, to fight them, you need to make the first move.
* Two things could happen when you die:
1) If you've attacked a fellow player, a white skull would appear on your head. If you die with that white skull, you'll lose everything you had in your inventory (Soon, they introudced the item bank, where you can keep items, like a safe.).
2) If you die without the white skull, you get to keep 3 of your best items in your inventory (you can't pick, it's the best 3 in value).
3) If you die whilst using a PRAYER (Protect items) and you don't have the skull, you get to keep 4 items.
___________________________________________________________________________
Hope all understands.

Josphe (ex-) RuneScaper www.runescape.com (Massive Multi-player game. The record amount of player on at one time was 8300. The servers went haywire.)

(Edited by Josphe at 6:53 am on Mar. 10, 2002)