what is powergaming...

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:50 pm

I am curious as to what powergaming is exactly.... Because I think I just saw a case of it. I was at the place where the sheep are collecting wool and I saw a human and an elf. The human was new like me and was casting ra pen on the elf. And the elf didn't care at all. And I said to them "why are you casting on the elf?"
and the human said "it is my teacher".
Isn't this powergaming? The elf is powergaming by trying to raise its magic defense with the human casting on it. well, I am new and don;t know for sure.

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:55 pm

It is Powergaming.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 8:22 pm

i dont know about collecting the wool collecting thing but highering his magic resistance is.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:10 pm

no, i was collecting wool, the human and elf were the ones "training".

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:46 pm

No I don't see that as powergaming. If I stand correct powergaming is like Macros? Macros is when the person ISN'T at the computer. Even so they said that the elf was teaching the other. I do not see how it is powergaming.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 11:47 pm

Powergaming is doing a certain series of things *repeatedly* to improve a *skill*

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:01 am

but the elf was letting the student hit it with ra pen so its magic defense would raise. I think I would call it powergaming....

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:13 am

especially since there is no use a magic resistance unless you plan on pk'ing. NO monsters cast yet.

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:23 am

Of course bear in mind that it is highly irrational behaviour. Being hit by a spell is NOT a pleasent experience...

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:45 am

Powergaming: Making use of bugs or repeating an action for the pure sake of gaining skills and becoming more "powerful".

Any action even if it is repeated (though not for an undue length of time) for a RP reason would not classify as powergaming.

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 12:57 am

Good point Elarilith. Hermies definition might make many smiths and carpenters very nervous.

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:29 am

Actualy, the most Smith and Carpenters ARE Powergamers, because if there isnt Eliza in Town, they would have no real reason to smith Thousands of Daggers.
The local Demand on these Items is nearly Zero. So everybody who only creates items for Eliza is in my eyes a Powergamer.

Oh no, hes doing this for Money, i hear you saying. But i answer, what do you want with this Money, you can survive without it.

Back to the current Example:
There is realy no RP-Reason to hurt your Friend/Student/Neighour with Spells over and over. He feels Pain, he gets Harmed, he might die.
This is no way of learning anything.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 3:29 am

If there is no way of learning anything than why do skills increase? hehe...Besides have you ever heard of sucking it up? So the elf is powerful and can take damage. It's called toughness. Strong beings can withstand small amounts of damage. I know nothing about spells so I do not know if it is a strong spell or not. Macros is basically things being done by themselves over and over again. Although I don't see how you could get any good at a skill without doing something over and over.

And if you can live without money...How come people work so hard to get good skills to make money? Is it pointless to do so? And why do you ask for money after a war? Why do we pay money? Saying that you can live without money is kind of strange. Doesn't make much sense.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 5:46 am

darlok you know why people would still smith thousands of items? for skill. There is no good rp reason to be hit with spells over and over while doing nothing about it. There is a fine line between training and powergaming.

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:44 am

Did you see the numbers of the human and elf and whether they were male or female?

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:42 am

As related to powergaming, there were several discussions about what is powergaming.

In the following topic, held on german, there is a discussion about training.
In one of my posts there, I gave some links to other topics about powergaming, some of them in english, have a look at them.

http://www.illarion.org/community/forum ... sc&start=0

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 3:13 pm

the human was male and new, 40xxx. I doubt he knew he was helping the female elf powergame. The female elf was 15966.

Xerake · Post by **Xerake** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 4:37 pm

Well, it is powergaming...

However, I don't mind it ONLY if magic resistance is being raised, because there are zero ways to improve magic resistance in a decent time; I don't feel like playing for three years just so I don't double over from an ice bolt...there are people who irritate me, and if I want to kill them, their buddies like to threaten ice bolts at me.

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:52 pm

I don't think it should be considered powergaming.
I think that powergaming should only be considered in the case of macros and such.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:17 am

Only if the persons are at the computer and aren't using programs and things I don't think there is anything wrong with it. How are you suppose to get powerful (in your lifetime)?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:34 am

macros and such are interface hacks and are cheating.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:45 pm

I know they are. That's what I was talking about.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 4:33 pm

9. Powergaming

Carrying out an action repeatedly, and for an extended time to raise your skill, is called Power gaming, and is forbidden. A worse case is when the player is doing something else to entertain him/her self meanwhile (e.g. watching tv). Note: Casting offensive spells on yourself will kill you instantly.
top

10. Usage of Macros

The use of additional programs which influences the game is not allowed. Especially macro programs are not allowed.

Here it is stated very clear, that powergaming is not "only" the use of macros and such things.
The reason for this is, that it is a roleplaying game and not a skill-gaining game. The main focus is roleplaying. And repeating one action for a long time to gain skills which doesn't fit to your rle, is powergaming.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:04 pm

Problem is they say that powergaming is increasing a skill while doing something over and over without a good RP reason...well how are you suppose to get skills up? They don't go up by themselves.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:00 pm

if you dont have an rp reason, why do it? there is a line between training and powergaming.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:59 pm

Yet you don't understand. Blacksmiths are powergamers according to the rules. Why do they make it that way to the point where you break rules?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:53 pm

Yet again, you dont understand, i blacksmith to make money and raise my skill, but, i dont sit around all day mining and smithing. Training and powergaming are different, powergaming is basically doing something repeatedly more than a reasonable amount.

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 12:54 am

And the the question, What is a reasonable ammount?

I dont think you can state what is and what isnt powergaming in a paragraph. You can only say if it is powegaming if you know everything about what happend.

Was there a good roleplaying reason behind it?

How long was it being done for?

Was it somthing that would not normaly happen? (eg letting monsters hit you to raise parry. Standing in a flame to raise magic resistance)

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:23 am

Yeah but, think about it Gro'Bul. That rule is quite vauge (I know I spelled wrong). Training can be the same thing. Like Darlok said. Is making tons of money a good RP reason? Not really. Who would really want to buy thousands of daggers?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:54 am

the rule is vague, and a reasonable amount is only what the gm's say what a reasonable amount is.