It seems its okay to kill the evil player, but not the good. You would think that was right, but we aren’t talking morals, but fairness. If a player can go around killing evil player, as I have seen and had done to me, many a time and get away with it (because its okay). Then why is it so wrong for the evil player to do it back? Let me explain (no names will be mentioned, because this in not a fight but learning)
Evil bloke walks into the town...
Evil bloke talks evil things that will happen in the future
Goody player gets nasty…
Evil player gets attacked…
Evil player fights back…
Evil player dies
THEN……………..
Goody walk into town
Goody has a go at evil
Evil gives as good as he gets
Goody attacks evil and so on….
You get he idea
so, turn the tables…..
Evil walks in to town…
Evil talks to goodies…
Goodies laugh in his face…
Evil gives time for them to run….
Goodies stays laughing…
Evil kills goody
Goodies kill evil
Goodies still attack evil…. Hmmm
Something not quite right?
And remember before you post back. Make it constructive and not just a nag
My little report….
Moderator: Gamemasters
My little report….
well
maybe the good one isnt as good as he deems himself
(i cant realy judge since i wasnt there)
but many people think themselves integer and free of sin
but if you look deep into their soul or just give them a little
push they trip over the brink and plunge into evil deeds.
thus the evil gods corrupt them and make them their own.
(Edited by Galdriel at 12:08 am on Feb. 3, 2002)
maybe the good one isnt as good as he deems himself
(i cant realy judge since i wasnt there)
but many people think themselves integer and free of sin
but if you look deep into their soul or just give them a little
push they trip over the brink and plunge into evil deeds.
thus the evil gods corrupt them and make them their own.
(Edited by Galdriel at 12:08 am on Feb. 3, 2002)
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Damien
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My little report….
In fact, we need a "otherworld", something where the dead ones go until resurrected...
My little report….
Hmmm his initial argument seemed to be about "good killing evil because they are evil" vs "evil killing good because they are good" but his example was confusing and more about repeated kiling.
My take is that idealy:
-Good would kill evil (mostly out of righteousness) simply because evil is by definition something that causes harm and suffering.
-Evil usually have an impure goal they want to achieve and don't appear in public announcing their evilness without expecting to be hunted. The less intellegent evil might go on rampages (ie monsters). The pure evil type might just want to cause suffering and pain just because they are evil.
But, since this is a roleplaying game, I think the creators would want you to be more creative. If you kill people just because you're pure evil or dumb evil, it has little roleplay value to it and creates mass player killing. If evil walks into a town full of good people and announces his evil intentions, then it would be logical that good tries to drive evil out of the town, knowing that the evil will cause them some kind of harm in one way or another. I think it would ruin the atmosphere if I were to come to town and see the post by the shop from an evil guy who says "I will take over the world and darkness will fill the land" and then I see him blacksmithing next to the local workers and nobody gives a damn about him.
So the roleplay value is more important here, even if it is unfair to evil.
P.S. But it may not be logical for a good guy to assume an evil person is really evil because he talks about such things, rather than just insane, before he's found some proof or seen an actual evil deed from him.
My take is that idealy:
-Good would kill evil (mostly out of righteousness) simply because evil is by definition something that causes harm and suffering.
-Evil usually have an impure goal they want to achieve and don't appear in public announcing their evilness without expecting to be hunted. The less intellegent evil might go on rampages (ie monsters). The pure evil type might just want to cause suffering and pain just because they are evil.
But, since this is a roleplaying game, I think the creators would want you to be more creative. If you kill people just because you're pure evil or dumb evil, it has little roleplay value to it and creates mass player killing. If evil walks into a town full of good people and announces his evil intentions, then it would be logical that good tries to drive evil out of the town, knowing that the evil will cause them some kind of harm in one way or another. I think it would ruin the atmosphere if I were to come to town and see the post by the shop from an evil guy who says "I will take over the world and darkness will fill the land" and then I see him blacksmithing next to the local workers and nobody gives a damn about him.
So the roleplay value is more important here, even if it is unfair to evil.
P.S. But it may not be logical for a good guy to assume an evil person is really evil because he talks about such things, rather than just insane, before he's found some proof or seen an actual evil deed from him.
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Bloody Cry
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My little report….
I agree. If evil comes into the town with evilness, they will be hunted. But then evil will hunt them. So, I wish people would use the justification that they are killing evil because of the evilness not saying things like, “he’s a PK. He’s just a silly newbie. He’s annoying and so on…” and understand that laughing at someone that’s evil and dangerous is silly because if their evil. Its not likely that they are going to just stand there and laugh it of. You can only push evil so far before it snaps.
Now talking about role-playing. If you wish there not to be a fight, you have to role play with the evil player, like they do with you. If you just laugh, Put them down and make silly comments, then you quickly make it impossible for then to carry one. So then the evil player has only two choice, disappear and leave or fight. Would you find Drakhen evil if he just disappeared when you got to cocky?
Now talking about role-playing. If you wish there not to be a fight, you have to role play with the evil player, like they do with you. If you just laugh, Put them down and make silly comments, then you quickly make it impossible for then to carry one. So then the evil player has only two choice, disappear and leave or fight. Would you find Drakhen evil if he just disappeared when you got to cocky?
My little report….
the problem is the most ppl´s who have played a evil havnt play it good
mostly they play evil chrs strange like "we go in the town and kill all what we see"
the most had started good with the rolplaying but at the end ... masskilling
untill now i have seen only one who have tryed it to be evil good , but maybe he can say why its difficult to play like that . I mean Sunrise or lord dark sunrise.
The other problem is the newbys.
Normaly is the town for the newbys and they should lean to play a good roleplay.
But if a evil comes in the town and kills a few ( i mean a few in a moment ), they learn it and try it too. At that way we teach them to pk and you see only clouds in the town cuze newbys are too weak and they lost the interest at the game ( and at the roleplaying cuze its easier to kill but difficulter to RP) .
That i have learned in a long time to play RPG´s
btw. to call someone pk is no roleplaying its better to call him a murder
PK is only the shortform from "Peace Keeper"
(Edited by Sirius at 12:47 pm on Feb. 3, 2002)
mostly they play evil chrs strange like "we go in the town and kill all what we see"
the most had started good with the rolplaying but at the end ... masskilling
untill now i have seen only one who have tryed it to be evil good , but maybe he can say why its difficult to play like that . I mean Sunrise or lord dark sunrise.
The other problem is the newbys.
Normaly is the town for the newbys and they should lean to play a good roleplay.
But if a evil comes in the town and kills a few ( i mean a few in a moment ), they learn it and try it too. At that way we teach them to pk and you see only clouds in the town cuze newbys are too weak and they lost the interest at the game ( and at the roleplaying cuze its easier to kill but difficulter to RP) .
That i have learned in a long time to play RPG´s
btw. to call someone pk is no roleplaying its better to call him a murder
PK is only the shortform from "Peace Keeper"
(Edited by Sirius at 12:47 pm on Feb. 3, 2002)
My little report….
Why does almost everyone automatically think an evil person is a killer?? Just because a person is evil does not mean they kill others. Take a thief for example.....stupid thieves. Or a person who aspires to rule the world with cunning rather than brute force, to take advantage of the weak minded for there personal gains. These are the truely evil characters in my mind, not some random murderer. Those are far to easy to stop. Now a caniving trecherous mind is a far greater enemy. I just thought i would throw that out there to remind a few people that evil is not only murder, its just a way of life brought on by a lack of morals, or a disregard for them.
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RagingSpirit
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My little report….
Evil players are meant to be killed or bothered. Not all evil players get killed though. Only those that announce that they are going to "take over the world". Thieves run don't they? So they don't die.
Good players will always try to kill the evil players. It's just the belief we were brought up on. If all our parents told us that evil was the way when we were little, then there would be more evil players than good. It's just the way the majority of us think. You can't change that right now.
As well, some people use it for an excuse. There are some bastards in the game.
Good players will always try to kill the evil players. It's just the belief we were brought up on. If all our parents told us that evil was the way when we were little, then there would be more evil players than good. It's just the way the majority of us think. You can't change that right now.
As well, some people use it for an excuse. There are some bastards in the game.
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Bloody Cry
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My little report….
I don't think our parents have anything to do with the way people role-play in genral. I play all-sorts of different types, form every evil to very good.
An important point I was thinking about…
This game is in it alpha stage, and I think that should include game play and the rules. Without some players pushing the rule, the rules will not get better. All forms of game play should be tested within the rules to see if the rules are working properly. IF there seems to be a problem, then we should work together to improve the rules. I will continue to play undesirable characters until I’m told not to, then I will stop straight away.
An important point I was thinking about…
This game is in it alpha stage, and I think that should include game play and the rules. Without some players pushing the rule, the rules will not get better. All forms of game play should be tested within the rules to see if the rules are working properly. IF there seems to be a problem, then we should work together to improve the rules. I will continue to play undesirable characters until I’m told not to, then I will stop straight away.
My little report….
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but just for reference, a long time ago this game used to have no rules against random player killing.
My little report….
In my opinion, "good" will not automaticaly kill "evil". Imagine a priest. He might try to turn evil characters from the dark to the light side by talking to them or giving them an example by his own actions ....
Killing all evil is just one solution and I think it is the simplest (and least creative).
Killing all evil is just one solution and I think it is the simplest (and least creative).
My little report….
It depends on both the good and evil person in the encounter. I guess not unreal that most people may not react passively since most people think like common ruffians or knights and guards, and many of the evil come out as the "I'm really strong and will take over the world muahahaha" type. Then even if they do try talking them out of the dark side first it usually fails and they end up having to fight the evil to prevent them from harming others. But a good person isn't all that "good" if they attack someone who seems evil but they haven't actually known them to do any actual evil deeds yet.
My little report….
Well...
I see myself as the good one and someone walks up and says something like "I am going to take over the world! Join me or be my enemy." I will surely be his enemy. But still I don't think I will attack the confused old man just because of his words.
Or other forms of evil: OK, some might kill someone they suspect to be a thief, but that will make themself a murderer as long as they can't prove anything. Be assured, that killing someone for thinking he is "evil" (whatever) even if he told he was would in most cases be a crime and in almost any case it would be an EVIL deed.
"Good <-> Evil" doesn't mean two parties like say "red <-> blue" in UT. Running around and killing people is at least partly evil and only fighting for some (very good, at least "pride" or something for an aggressive Fighter character) reason or to protect someone / something would be taken as going conform with beeing good.
think about it
Farlorn
I see myself as the good one and someone walks up and says something like "I am going to take over the world! Join me or be my enemy." I will surely be his enemy. But still I don't think I will attack the confused old man
just because of his words.Or other forms of evil: OK, some might kill someone they suspect to be a thief, but that will make themself a murderer as long as they can't prove anything. Be assured, that killing someone for thinking he is "evil" (whatever) even if he told he was would in most cases be a crime and in almost any case it would be an EVIL deed.
"Good <-> Evil" doesn't mean two parties like say "red <-> blue" in UT. Running around and killing people is at least partly evil and only fighting for some (very good, at least "pride" or something for an aggressive Fighter character) reason or to protect someone / something would be taken as going conform with beeing good.
think about it
Farlorn
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Caranthir the great
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"Good <-> Evil" thats topic discussed largely , but what about people stalking somewhere between (in this <->) area?
killing evil just because you think that they are evil , is just the same as killing person (good?) cause hes opinions are different from yours . what if evil ones think that they are "good" and "good ones" are evil?
killing evil just because you think that they are evil , is just the same as killing person (good?) cause hes opinions are different from yours . what if evil ones think that they are "good" and "good ones" are evil?
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RagingSpirit
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Your post reminds me of a book I read Caranthir.
Just because you are a minority, does that mean you are wrong? That is what the general problem is. Almost the whole world knows that killing an innocent person is bad these days. Did this feeling exist back in the days when cave men lived? What a person thinks is right is usually a teaching from someone he/she really trusts, has been forced to believe, or has been brought up with it by relatives/family. Because most people believe something, anyone who opposes it usually gets shunned.
Evil people may think they are good and in the right. The person in this book thought that he was taking over the world so that he could control everything and bring everyone peace under his rule. Of course, almost everyone else thought it wrong and opposed. He commanded much power and conquered much. Those that had been conquered began to believe his teachings and turned against what was generally thought as good in the world. Why? Because they were forced to believe it. If they didn't, why would they live then? They would just suffer.
Good people can become corrupt and not know it because it usually is a gradual change. They will still believe they are helping the world when they are actually hurting it.
BTW Bloody Cry, our parents do influence what we roleplay. If you were in a religion and brought up to be something like a fanatic, you certainly wouldn't want to play an evil person would you? I hate playing the evil person. Why? Because I was brought up on "rightousness good, anything else bad." or something along those lines.
Ok, I'll stop ranting now.
Just because you are a minority, does that mean you are wrong? That is what the general problem is. Almost the whole world knows that killing an innocent person is bad these days. Did this feeling exist back in the days when cave men lived? What a person thinks is right is usually a teaching from someone he/she really trusts, has been forced to believe, or has been brought up with it by relatives/family. Because most people believe something, anyone who opposes it usually gets shunned.
Evil people may think they are good and in the right. The person in this book thought that he was taking over the world so that he could control everything and bring everyone peace under his rule. Of course, almost everyone else thought it wrong and opposed. He commanded much power and conquered much. Those that had been conquered began to believe his teachings and turned against what was generally thought as good in the world. Why? Because they were forced to believe it. If they didn't, why would they live then? They would just suffer.
Good people can become corrupt and not know it because it usually is a gradual change. They will still believe they are helping the world when they are actually hurting it.
BTW Bloody Cry, our parents do influence what we roleplay. If you were in a religion and brought up to be something like a fanatic, you certainly wouldn't want to play an evil person would you? I hate playing the evil person. Why? Because I was brought up on "rightousness good, anything else bad." or something along those lines.
Ok, I'll stop ranting now.
My little report….
Ok first anyone who proclaims themselves to be evil is a fool to start off with. If you are evil, truely evil, not just a random murderer, then you dont think you are evil, you think you are saving the world from an unknown evil, so you are 'the only good in the world'. This way you should preach your 'rightous ways' to others, even though they are not what they believe, but if you can convince a few people that you are right, and they can convince more people...you have an army of followers. Now you have an army of followers that belive you to be right, and others may or not believe you to be evil, depending on how led others to believe you were like. So then this is the point in which you try and force your opinions on others, when you have the power of many other people who believe in what you say to fight for you. If you come right out and say "Hi Im evil, join me all evil people", you not going to get very far, in fact, most people will kill you and should kill you. Why not kill the people who say they are evil, this way you will have no evil in the land. So if your going to complain about being killed for saying your evil, then your an idiot. Think up a story, stick to it, recruit others to your story, or "beliefs" as you should say, then you can act and proclaim your intentions to others. Even then, you should not say you are evil, just you opose the the current structure of government/life in Illarion and you wish to change the current system by any means necessary.
My little report….
As human beings, sometimes we have to use our judgement and make a call. Maybe to someone with opposing ideas he is right, but if he harms others then something must be done.
A neighbouring country's government might think that taking over your land will be beneficial to their country so to them they are doing what's best for their people, but it doesn't mean you're just going to let them take over your country.
A poor starving child might think he's right to steal a loaf of bread from you, but you can't just let every starving kid steal a loaf of bread from you everyday.
A neighbouring country's government might think that taking over your land will be beneficial to their country so to them they are doing what's best for their people, but it doesn't mean you're just going to let them take over your country.
A poor starving child might think he's right to steal a loaf of bread from you, but you can't just let every starving kid steal a loaf of bread from you everyday.