Metal Legs

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 8:10 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if this isnt the first time someone has brought this up, do we know when we are getting them?

People would look really wierd fully clad in plate mail apart from thier legs which they wear leather on.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:46 pm

I see, you want to take the *1* thing that people actualy buy from tailors and do away with it?

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:51 pm

Well if thats the case why not have tailors only be able to make leather legs?

I do not wish to inconvenience tailoring, I just dont want to look like a fool with leather legs but plate body.

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:47 pm

Agreed Guinglan, it just feels..funny wearing things in a weird way, but should every skill be made popular?

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:50 pm

in the middle ages, most knights had a metal chest and leather legs because they would move around easier. So if we got metal legs you should move a lot slower.
side note* arms weren't smelted onto the metal chest, maybe you guys can make it so you need to make metal arms if you want complete protection, just to be more realistic.

Korg Blacktooth · Post by **Korg Blacktooth** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 1:52 am

well we can have metal legs because they did make a few in those time....but we can make it so you have to wear leather legs underneath the metal legs (not giveing extra protection at all) that way you can have it look like you have a nice set full of metal armor and the tailors would still have there leather legs to sell.
And the ro reason for have leather under the metals legs could be that it lets you walk at normal pace still.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:22 am

What is this?!? You propose something that will eliminate the one thing that newbies who want to be all-powerful desire!

I say "no, no and no to this proposal. Until more tailored items are desirable, this proposal would utterly vanquish the meager business tailors do these days!
@Korg I don't think leather would have been worn under plate armor legs. It would have been cotton/linen breeches more likely.

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:33 am

They had tons of plate armor those days, what are you talking about? It was only bronze. They only had giant iron spears and weapons. Usually they wore chain mail.

Wolfskehl · Post by **Wolfskehl** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:45 am

I think the metal leggings should be made available the same time that strength/class/race limit what class armor you can wear. You can't expect to see grand mages running around in full body armor, nor would I expect tp see hobbits wearing these sorts of heavy armor items.

Korg Blacktooth · Post by **Korg Blacktooth** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 5:25 am

@Elaralith leather legs cotten legs it does not matter but what matters is that the tailors will still have buissnes my way and it would look better with the metal legs there

Drathe · Post by **Drathe** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 9:12 pm

Metal leggings should most definatley be made available... after all what self-respecting Paladin or Knight would be fight a creature not of this mortal world or duleing with out a full set of plate.

But as I have said before Plate armour as with chain mail was never worn over bare skin. It was worn over an all be it simple linnen tunic for chain mail and a simple shirt and trousers for full plate (as well as chain mail but no need for that in the game.)

Now the current game system does not allow for two differing types of garment for the same body part to be worn together.

So why not have tailors be able to make say a plate under shirt and trousers. (No real need to bother with a chain mail under shirt)
The smiths still make the plate but the plate is not wear able untill combined (as with e.g wind potions and arrows.) with the under shirt to wear.

Ok it would make Plate over all a little more expencive but then plate was and should be very very expencive.
Also it would make tailors a definately needed profesion and give them a decent thing to interact and sell to players.

Two simple graphics and (im not a programer so maye Serp could shed some light) a little code conversiion from a previose item to item combination rule.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 9:31 pm

i say just make it so the heavier the armor the slower you move, might be harder but still will be implemented sooner or later no matter what most likely.

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 9:53 pm

Moving slower should be tied in with weight allowance.

As for metal legs being restricting, leather legs were more restricting than metal as metal is able to slide over each other whearas leather is not. But metal legs still were heavier.

In a well made suit of armour it is possible to roll, flip, cartwheel and all other assortments of agile movements. Before battles knights reqularly participated in various acrobatic exercises to make such the armour fit propersly.

Good Idea for the padding though.

Zasmia · Post by **Zasmia** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:56 pm

@ Guingalan: Are you joking? Acrobatic exercises? A full plate armour weighs about 60 kg, the knights had much effort to get on their horses at all (some even used cranes!). If they were tossed down, they couldn´t even stand up by their self.

And leather legs aren´t restricting at all. I used to wear leather trousers for some time and I can say they were quite comfortable.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:20 pm

guingalin- if you ever wore metal legs you would see you could not move quickly or agily. Infact running would probably be nearly impossible. that is why i think with this implemented people will stick with leather legs because if speed is implemented most people will want to move fast and not slow while the monster can just follow you and hit you while you are retreating.

Drathe · Post by **Drathe** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:54 pm

With out wanting to sound like a buff, it depends on the type, period and the origin (e.g. gothic, milan.) of the armour worn.. but an average
mounted Knights armour would weigh in at around (the armour alone) 60lb - 27kg. I as an average build, 21 year old weigh 66kg - 147lb.

So a full set of plate would be like carrying not far off, half my body weight around.

Tho heavy Plate armour was manoverable and flexable enough to, in theory be able to do acrobatics, the likely hood of actualy doing them is...wel....non-existant due to the weight.

A mounted knighs armour was differing in a few aspects to that of one on foot. Tho the weight would only be a little lighter so less in fact that Knights on foot were rarley seen on the battle field.

hehe hope you enjoyed the read.

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:31 am

A full plate armour weighs about 60 kg, the knights had much effort to get on their horses at all (some even used cranes!). If they were tossed down, they couldn´t even stand up by their self.

True, most knights used cranes to get on their horse, but that was due to the factthat it was simply extremely hard to lean over a horselike that, let alone bend your knees as muchas is required.

Was a knight felled to the ground he would not have much trouble getting up and continuing to fight on foot though... Bear in mind that those knights had trained in those armours for years on end before they were even allowed on battlefields. These men were the ultimate in physical prowess and could put even the biggest boxer/weight lifter whatever to shame...

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 7:19 pm

Bumbol, I have never worn plate legs, I have seen people wearing plate legs, they sprinted across the field in them, then did a backflip.

When I refered to being able to do I backflip I meant in terms of flexibility, although I have heard that people have acheived it. (not many people try though)

60kg is ridiculous.

And yes they did do acrobatic exercises, twisting, jumping, rolling, not only have I seen it, I have just checked it with a book.

A crane to mount a horse yes was sometimes used, but that was indeed due to the weight of the armour and the decreased flexibility in the legs of mounted armour (you don't need to run around when you are on a horse).

Not the proposal here was not what armour in real life did, but rather implemeting it into the game sometime soon.

Guingalan

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 7:52 pm

hahaha, nowadays....maybe, but thin steel is way lighter than any two centimeter thick iron, those babys block handgun bullets

why not just have chain mail skirt, that wouldnt be restricting at all harly, somewhat heavey but it would still work better than plate legs, im manly enough to wear a skirt!

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 7:55 pm

@Guingalan

Drathe said the average weight was around 60 lbs which are pounds, or 27 kg. They're the same value but using different units.

I just did a little quick search on the internet for respectable sites containing information on the subject and discovered a few things that I feel are relevant to this discussion. Don't take these figures as absolute fact as they were pulled from the web, but they do appear to be from credible sites.

The Medieval plate armor which was made to be lighter and more flexible than the earlier armors was made with the intent to keep it under 29 Kg in weight for the armor used in battle. This is roughly 65 lbs. Armor used in tournaments could be up to twice this weight because after all, safety was the key issue. It would be foolish to allow your best warriors to fight in armor in which they had a greater risk of injuring or killing each other when thicker armor could be used and the fight could go on.

The armor used in the acrobatic shows or what have you would obviously not be of the heavier more protective sort if it were even a real thing as you say. Running would be difficult in such a suit and acrobatics would be nearly impossible. I'm not saying that it was impossible, but I highly doubt there were many people able to do back flips with 65 lbs strapped to them. If it were only the plate leggings that is not pertinent to the issue at hand. Plate leggings would be approximately 15-20 lbs I would assume and that COULD be done but it would not prove anything. The main restrictions in movement would be encountered when wearing the full suit and attempting to move in a fluid, natural motion. There would be too many joints to have a full range of motions, and therefore when wearing the full suit, movement would be restricted.

I completely agree that a tailored item should be made that would fit under the plate armor or joined to the plate armor before it could be worn. This would give the tailors more importance as well as adding to the realism of wearing plate armor or chain armor. Neither would be worn without such padding underneath in real life and it makes sense that it should be worn here. I don't think it should add any more protection to the already high protection level of chain or plate armor, but it should be needed in order to wear the other items.

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 9:59 pm

I give up.