Race Restritctions

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:48 am

Greetings!

Concerning races and classes I have a proposal to make. It seems ridiculous to me that in illarion a dwarf can be a mage etc. etc. As soon as the vocation system is implemented, I propose that restrictions concerning what classes can be picked for each race. Of course the current "certain races better at certain classes" would be what this proposal is added upon. This would benefit the roleplaying atmosphere very much in my opinion. If everyone was a good roleplayer this would not be needed, but unfortunately too many do not know how to "role-play" in the right sense even though there is an e-mail application system. So back to my proposal, some suggestions I would like to make for the race restrictions are the following:
Elf: Fighter, druid, ranger, mage, cleric, warlock, bard
Dwarf: Fighter, ranger, cleric, paladin, warlock
Human: Figher, ranger, cleric, paladin, warlock, mage, bard, thief, druid
Orc: Fighter, warlock, cleric, ranger, druid
Halfling: Thief, fighter, ranger, druid, cleric, bard, paladin
Lizardman: Fighter, druid, ranger, cleric, paladin, warlock
Goblins: Fighter, warlock, mage, thief
Gnome: Fighter, cleric, warlock, mage, bard, thief, druid
Faeries: Cleric, warlock, mage, bard, thief, druid
For now perhaps, it could be implemented so that it is impossible for certain races to learn magic, druidry, or fighting.
Posts helpful to the discussion-welcome!
Thank you for reading.
-Elaralith

Drogla · Post by **Drogla** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 2:57 am

i wouldnt make restrictions. i prefer dwrves and prefer mages. hence i am a dwarf mage. i say waht you think should be a restiction should be a suggestiopn, and if you are toher, as a dwarf mage, you jsut wont have the magical power as an elf mage.
ps: a cleric is a healer that uses magic, as in heal spells. if a dwarf cant use atack magic, why heal magic. that seems odd...

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:28 am

@Elaralith:
I both agree and disagree with your suggestion.

Yes, as a *general* rule dwarfs should not be mages. But, there is always the exception to the rule that you would be preventing. Some people could very well RP being a dwarven mage, and being cast out from their dwarven town because of their ways, etc...

@Drogla:
I believe that your dwarven mage would be one of the things that Elaralith would be trying to prevent. Just because you like dwarfs is not a good reason to make a dwarven mage.

If, on the other hand, you wanted to RP a character that went against their family and race tradition in the persuit of, to them, forbidden knowledge, that is a different matter.

Drogla · Post by **Drogla** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:53 pm

@serpardum: being a dwarf mage makes me uneque also. i prefer that as well.RPing against my heiritage is all fine and dandy with me. whatever RP is neccesary for a dwarf mage

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:56 pm

@Serpardum
Perhaps being a dwarven mage should be made more difficult?

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:59 pm

I'm against technical restrictions in the yes/ no style. It would create limitations which were impossible to explain ingame.
Caranthir's idea is also what I think. It should be way harder for a dwarf to learn magic, as they have less talent for it. Not impossible, but hard enough so the common dwarf wouldn't even bother learning it.

Drogla · Post by **Drogla** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:59 pm

i belive i said it caranthir. what Elaralith said for what races can be what should not be restrictions, but a recomendation. if you are not withing the rightcatagory, as a dwarf mage isnt, you will have more hardships to become a mage.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:13 pm

@ Drogla
What I ment was, that addition to any RP-hardships there would also be technical hardships to make it harder for one to obtain any skill in magic.

@ Adano
We seem to share the same views.

Burin · Post by **Burin** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:16 pm

I would do just about anything to change my magic skill.
I never really wanted to be a mage. When I first played the game, I was reading books, and learned a rune. Soon later is when I found out that I could make potions. I rather make potions, but it is too late...

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:43 am

If we were playing by D & D rules then yes a dwarf could not be a mage. But D & D has a level system. Illarion does not so evidently we are not adhering to D & D rules. So if we are not playing by D & D rules then we are playing by Illarion rules and can make the rules as we wish.

Who is to say that a dwarf is not good at magic? Magic is a fictional thing and does not exist in real life, but it does exist in the game because we SAY it does. So why can't we just say that in Illarion any race can use magic if they have a high intelligence?

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:49 am

No way, I dont want restrictions that would really suck badly. I have a dwarf mage character and I am proud of it, took me a while to get where I am and I dont want to be gone in puff of smoke. It is quite hard enough as it is though; really really hard. I dont have much time on my hands to play Illarion though. Anything except the restrictions or bad stuff would be nice.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 2:07 am

@Crocket: Because a dwarf, as defined by the Illarion webpage is:

They are proud of their beards and hate magic. They live below the surface and can see in the darkness. They are good fighters.

Still, that doesn't mean there are NONE of dwarves that use lots of magic. It's just that there should be a good roleplay reason behind being a spellcasting dwarf, not just because "it's cool" or "i like both dwarves and mages" or "I worked so hard on his skills". You should think of a good RP reason before choosing a such an unorthodox role.

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 2:17 am

@Dyluck
I stand corrected.

So in Illarion dwarves hate magic. But you are right there is always an exception if it fits into a role playing reason.

@Kringin
Don't get too worked up, remember Illarion is still in Alpha stages and any of us or ALL of us could be wiped out at anytime and have to start over. I guess you could say we are now test driving it.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 3:33 am

I disagree with the restrictions. My char Hermie is a halfling mage, but what I realised when making my char was that a halfling wouldnt make a very good mage so I restricted my Intelligence so that I can only cast simple spells like healing, and my most powerful spell is probably ra luk.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:02 am

@Crocket Again, the topic of realism comes up. Some people seem to still not understand..anyways in illarion it is not realistic for a dwarf to be good at magic or even like it!
@Dyluck Well said.
@Separdum I agree, there are always the exceptions, but since this is a game the exceptions should be covered. Because not everyone is a good roleplayer despite the email application system this could prevent certain people who have NO rp reason at all from becoming a dwarf and a mage etc. etc. I think the problem with the exceptions can be solved...if a player really wants to be a dwarf and a mage for example, they could be required to send a email to the illarion staff explaining the RP reason why! And if it was a really good one then it could be allowed...would be up to illarion staff then! This wold strain out all those annoying non-Rping character profiles as well....

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:17 am

@Elaralith
First of all I changed my opinion after Dyluck referred me to the description of dwarves in Illarion. So dwarves in Illarion hate magic.

But explain one thing to me.
Why is it unrealistic for a dwarf to use magic?
Magic in itself is unrealistic, so does that mean that magic should be removed from Illarion?

Remember this is a fantasy world, realism and unrealism do not matter.
All that matters is what the rules and the description of the world is.

Our Illarion world is whatever we want to make of it.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:32 am

@Crocket Read the "Realism" thread. I will try to explain to you a bit, and hope for the best. In illarion there are certain guidelines as it must be for any fantasy game, and one of those is that dwarves hate magic. That is why it is unrealistic in illarion for a dwarf to use magic and like it. Illarion is a fantasy game and something that is realistic in illarion is "magic". That is why magic is a thing that is realistic in illarion, and not the real world. I think you are mixing RL up with realism in illarion.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 8:57 am

Elaralith wrote:@Separdum I agree, there are always the exceptions, but since this is a game the exceptions should be covered. Because not everyone is a good roleplayer despite the email application system this could prevent certain people who have NO rp reason at all from becoming a dwarf and a mage etc. etc.

1. In your opionion.
2. If they are truely a bad RPer then they shouldn't be playing anyway.
3. Perhaps if someone is unrealistically RPing, such as a dwarf playing a mage, then perhaps they should be brought on on their RP reasons. Then again, maybe not.

Elaralith wrote:I think the problem with the exceptions can be solved...if a player really wants to be a dwarf and a mage for example, they could be required to send a email to the illarion staff explaining the RP reason why! And if it was a really good one then it could be allowed...would be up to illarion staff then! This wold strain out all those annoying non-Rping character profiles as well....

I see, and make a lot more work for the staff. Oh, we could do this for people who want to be Drows, since everyone knows that no one plays Drows right, right? And people who play lizards, they don't use sss's enough so perhaps we shoudl limit peopel who can play them too. And, heck, how many druids actually RP worshiping nature? And, heck, all those dwarfs who don't seem to love gold enough.. Let's have it that not only must you send in an application with your char name and password, but a 20 page background story on their character and if it's not good enough they they have to play a human...

Sorry, I'm really not irritated at you, Elaralith, but I do not like anyone telling me who or what I can RP.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:24 pm

@Separdum Don't worry I do not see your post as reflecting you being irritated. Back to the topic. The problem is although in theory bad RPers should not be playing often times that is not the case. Despite the email application system there are still many ridicuously bad Rpers and I am not talking about people that are new and need time to mature. Yes, it would be work for the staff, but then again good changes require hardwork to be brought up just like the email application system. I there are many helping hands, I for one would not be reluctant to help out a little in whatever way to ease the workload. Anyways, what you have described is true. Not all people are the best of roleplayers, but most are average. What I am aiming to do with this proposal is to get rid of those ridiculously bad roleplayers and their "backgrounds". An example I see all too often: "Hello, I am a Drow! Oh evil? No way I am really actually kind-hearted! Why you say? Oh I dont know, I am a good person like everyone else I suppose. Why did I choose to be a Drow? That's easy! Because Drows are cool with their dark skin and all ya! Hm you want a good RP reason...uhhh ok I um just grew up somewhere and now am good! Hows that?" ...That kind of thing appears often and it is extremely detrimental for the good roleplayers as a whole.
-Elaralith

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:50 am

Yes there are quite bad roleplayers around in Illarion. But with staying around the right people they can learn, just like I did when I was a newbie around in Illarion. Well putting a Dwarf-Mage into a bad ropleying list is not fair at all, so what if they are a mage, they can still do so many things that are considered roleplaying and correct in terms of morality and in-character actions. There is always room for change. Nothing should be considered bad roleplaying as long as their actions and speech are correct. There are always those special people that are quite rare and are very interestig to meet in RPG. All in all there is a place for everyone.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 12:48 am

Kringin wrote:...Nothing should be considered bad roleplaying as long as their actions and speech are correct. There are always those special people that are quite rare and are very interestig to meet in RPG. All in all there is a place for everyone.

Wrong, Kringin. Because a dwarf who casts magic is not using correct action. Dwarfs don't cast magic, since they hate magic, except for a very good excuse. And if they do not RP that excuse, then they shouldnt' be doing it.

I agree with Elaralith on that.

I just don't agree that we shouldn't allow dwarven mages altogether.

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 2:11 am

Ow thats no fair Serpardum

, is it decided that Dwarfs hate magic ? or is it just the concept of the game? I hope its neither.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 3:25 am

@Separdum Hmm I too do not think that dwarf-mages etc. should be not allowed completely because there is always the odd player that has a really good RP reason. Perhaps in the email -application for an account a person must send to play illarion he/she could also be required to say what their race, class, and gender was and briefly describe their character. This wouldn't add a great burden on the illarion staff, as it would just be a small paragraph included in the email to be evaluated by the illarion staff. It could be used as a criteria for acceptance! So if someone described their character as a "dwarven-mage" and in their description their reason was because they liked the look of dwarves and magic was "cool" that could be taken into account by the illarion staff and possibly disable him/her from getting an account.
@Kringin How is it not fair Kringin? Separdum was just informing you of the facts...This is a fantasy game but their are certain guidelines so that it can be a good RP experience and no utter chaos. There was never any "deciding" for dwarves to hate magic...if you knew anything at all about general fantasy RPGs you would know that generally dwarves dislike magic! And it is part of the concept of the game....I think you need to do some serious reading.

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:00 am

Oh this is a great idea Elaralith! I would love to see that added to the account application system. Each character should have a one or two paragraph description and this would greatly reduce the number of poor role-players or even the poorly developed characters for good role-players that were created on a whim to 'try something new', that have slipped through the cracks into the world of illarion. I know this would initially cause more work for the one or ones reading the applications but in the long run it would reduce the overall workload as the admins wouldn't have to go back and weed out nearly as many of the thorns in illarions garden of blooming role-players. If there aren't enough people available to work on such a thing I'm sure there are many volunteers that would come forward if asked. Elaralith has offered her services and if asked I would gladly help if I was deemed worthy.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:47 am

@Niniane Exactly! I am glad that you see it, and envision it too.

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 9:39 pm

Yea I guess you could do that.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 8:53 am

Kringin wrote:Ow thats no fair Serpardum , is it decided that Dwarfs hate magic ? or is it just the concept of the game? I hope its neither.

Kringin, go read from the links somewhere about the race descriptions. You will see that Dwarfs hate magic.

If you are playing a dwarven mage without a good RP reason, you are doing extremly bad RP. You can be called to accounts for it (For German speakers this is an english terms meaning that you could be called up to explain yourself).

You might want to come up with a good RP reason why your dwarf is casting magic and start RPing it, decide not to cast magic anymore, or wait for someone to call you to accounts.

There are links to e-mail addresses for complaints and such you know...

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 8:01 pm

[removed by Kringin]
I have a reason to keep my character, I have been roleplaying without even knowing.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Mon Feb 17, 2003 10:34 pm

@Kringin Characters should not be a "worry". They should be something that you develop over time and be fun to play with! That is what illarion is all about, termed rightfully - roleplaying. If you find it a "worry" to roleplay, then perhaps you should not play illarion as you may wreck other people's roleplaying experiences when you play and do not roleplay because you find roleplaying a "worry".

Kringin · Post by **Kringin** » Tue Feb 18, 2003 12:15 am

Elaralith you many times have the right mind but judge wrong. It was just a figure of speech. Anyways I said that because I dont get much time to play Ilarion and not enough time to develop all my characters. Get my point?