What a bad day. Serpatum told me, I have to change my name. Ingrain. Its an english word, and I didn't know, but isn't it too late to change? I'm a very important member of a dwarf-clan. We have made a own Homepage and all that things. Sure, I can copy the list of my names, but will the people remember me as the same?
I think more than a half year playing with that name is a good reason to make an exception.
Was für ein mieser Tag. Serpatum verlangt von mir, dass ich meinen Namen änder soll. Ingrain ist ein englisches Wort, aber das wusste ich nicht. Ist es nicht etwas spät meinen Namen zu ändern? Ich bin ein sehr wichtiges Mitglied in einem Clan. Wir haben eine eigene Hompage und alles was dazu gehört. Auch wenn ich die Liste der Namen kopieren kann, kann ich nicht die Erinnerungen der Leute kopieren.
Ich denke über ein halbes Jahr unter diesem Namen spielen ist eine guter Grund eine Ausnahme zu machen.
I don't want to change my Name!
Moderator: Gamemasters
Ich halte Ausnahmen für ungerecht, es gab in letzer Zeit so manchen wo es erst nach mehreren Wochen aufgedeckt wurde das der Name unpassend ist.
Was ganz einfach damit zusammen hängt, dass die Spielerliste /Namen nicht immer überprüft werden sondern nur dann wenn Zeit dazu besteht.
Ich traf letztens einen Halbling der sich "Mir" nannte, ( er war englisch sprachig ), ihm teilte ich auch mit das ich diesen Namen für unpassend halte, da er nun mal im Deutschen ein ganz normales Wort ist.
Der einzige Unterschied zwischen dem und Dir besteht darin das wohl ein paar mehr Monate in Illarion bist, richtig?
Dieser Umstand sollte aber nicht dazu führen das Ausnahmen gemacht werden, du kennst sicher mögliche Folgen, die ja auch nicht schwer zu erraten sind.
Zumal eine Änderung des Namens nun nicht so schwer ist, sie dauert zwar eine Weile, aber schreib halt einfach an den für Charakternamen usw. zuständigen GM und lass dort der Nick wechseln.
"Auch ein Unwissender ist im Stande Regeln zu brechen, selbst wenns ihm nicht bewusst ist"
Ingrain >>> Rauhfaser, und wenn man sich nun überlegt das ein Englisch Sprachiger dich im übertragegenen Sinne immer mit Rauhfaser anredet, dann kann ich Serpardum´s Wunsch/Bitte/Aufforderung schon verstehen.
Was ganz einfach damit zusammen hängt, dass die Spielerliste /Namen nicht immer überprüft werden sondern nur dann wenn Zeit dazu besteht.
Ich traf letztens einen Halbling der sich "Mir" nannte, ( er war englisch sprachig ), ihm teilte ich auch mit das ich diesen Namen für unpassend halte, da er nun mal im Deutschen ein ganz normales Wort ist.
Der einzige Unterschied zwischen dem und Dir besteht darin das wohl ein paar mehr Monate in Illarion bist, richtig?
Dieser Umstand sollte aber nicht dazu führen das Ausnahmen gemacht werden, du kennst sicher mögliche Folgen, die ja auch nicht schwer zu erraten sind.
Zumal eine Änderung des Namens nun nicht so schwer ist, sie dauert zwar eine Weile, aber schreib halt einfach an den für Charakternamen usw. zuständigen GM und lass dort der Nick wechseln.
"Auch ein Unwissender ist im Stande Regeln zu brechen, selbst wenns ihm nicht bewusst ist"
Ingrain >>> Rauhfaser, und wenn man sich nun überlegt das ein Englisch Sprachiger dich im übertragegenen Sinne immer mit Rauhfaser anredet, dann kann ich Serpardum´s Wunsch/Bitte/Aufforderung schon verstehen.
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Loki Feuerhaar
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 9:20 pm
- Location: Trolls Bane
Ingrain,
gerade weil du so lange gespielt hast macht man bei dir eine Ausnahme. Man eröffnet dir die Möglichkeit deinen Charakter beizubehalten und bewahrt ihn vor der Löschung.
Spieler ohne lange Spielzeiten ("Newbies") verlieren meist sofort ihren Charakter wenn der Name gegen Regeln verstösst, weil es für sie einfacher ist einen neuen Charakter zu beginnen als ihren bestehenden umbenennen zu lassen.
Wenn deine Ausnahme darin bestehen würde deinen Namen beizubehalten, ware das nicht nur ein Regelbruch, sonder dann würde jeder auch das "Recht" auf diese Ausnahme für sich beanspruchen wollen.
Denk dir doch einfach einen Namen aus der ähnlich wie dein jetziger ist.
Erinner dich auch an die Regel, dass Nachnamen sehr wohl existierende Worte beinhalten kann.
So müsstest du dir nur einen entsprechenden Vornamen überlegen.
Obwohl ich keinen Charakter mit dem Nachnamen "Rauhfaser" strafen würde
Bis bald
Loki
gerade weil du so lange gespielt hast macht man bei dir eine Ausnahme. Man eröffnet dir die Möglichkeit deinen Charakter beizubehalten und bewahrt ihn vor der Löschung.
Spieler ohne lange Spielzeiten ("Newbies") verlieren meist sofort ihren Charakter wenn der Name gegen Regeln verstösst, weil es für sie einfacher ist einen neuen Charakter zu beginnen als ihren bestehenden umbenennen zu lassen.
Wenn deine Ausnahme darin bestehen würde deinen Namen beizubehalten, ware das nicht nur ein Regelbruch, sonder dann würde jeder auch das "Recht" auf diese Ausnahme für sich beanspruchen wollen.
Denk dir doch einfach einen Namen aus der ähnlich wie dein jetziger ist.
Erinner dich auch an die Regel, dass Nachnamen sehr wohl existierende Worte beinhalten kann.
So müsstest du dir nur einen entsprechenden Vornamen überlegen.
Obwohl ich keinen Charakter mit dem Nachnamen "Rauhfaser" strafen würde
Bis bald
Loki
#me liest diesen Artikel
#me schlägt panisch in einem Englisch-Deutsch Wörterbuch nach.
#me ist erleichtert das es das Wort Korben in der englischen Sprache nicht gibt
Das ist wierklich eine üble Sache. Vor allem nach so langer Zeit. Und wenn man es gross schreibt dann ist es doch ein Eigenname. Der Name Jack hat kleigeschrieben eine grosse Anzahl von Bedeutungen (Buchse, Stecker, anheben, Wagenheber), grossgeschrieben ist er aber ganz klar ein Name.
@ Fieps: also mein Wörterbuch spuckt zu ingrain>eingiessen aus. Ich benutze das Online-Wörterbuch der TU-chemnitz, wo hast du geschaut?
#me schlägt panisch in einem Englisch-Deutsch Wörterbuch nach.
#me ist erleichtert das es das Wort Korben in der englischen Sprache nicht gibt
Das ist wierklich eine üble Sache. Vor allem nach so langer Zeit. Und wenn man es gross schreibt dann ist es doch ein Eigenname. Der Name Jack hat kleigeschrieben eine grosse Anzahl von Bedeutungen (Buchse, Stecker, anheben, Wagenheber), grossgeschrieben ist er aber ganz klar ein Name.
@ Fieps: also mein Wörterbuch spuckt zu ingrain>eingiessen aus. Ich benutze das Online-Wörterbuch der TU-chemnitz, wo hast du geschaut?
@Korben, zuerst über Google, dies sagte mir "Rauhfaser", da ich aber Online Büchern nicht ganz vertraue, schlug ich ganz traditionell noch einmal in Langenscheidts Wörterbuch (Englisch zu Deutsch ) nach.
Das gab mir eine ähnliche Auskunft, daher nahm ich an das es eine gültige allgemeine Übersetzung ist.
@Loki, von der Seite ( das schon eine Ausnahme gemacht wurde, nicht gleich Löschen sondern erst Auffordern den Namen zu wechseln ) habe ich es noch gar nicht betrachtet.
Das gab mir eine ähnliche Auskunft, daher nahm ich an das es eine gültige allgemeine Übersetzung ist.
@Loki, von der Seite ( das schon eine Ausnahme gemacht wurde, nicht gleich Löschen sondern erst Auffordern den Namen zu wechseln ) habe ich es noch gar nicht betrachtet.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ingrain
tr.v. in·grained, in·grain·ing, in·grains
To fix deeply or indelibly, as in the mind: “A system that had been ingrained for generations could not be easily undone by change from the top” (Doris Kearns Goodwin).
Archaic. To dye or stain into the fiber of.
adj. (ngrn)
Deep-seated; ingrained.
Made of predyed fibers; thoroughly dyed: ingrain yarn.
Made of fiber or yarn dyed before weaving. Used especially of rugs.
n. (ngrn)
Yarn or fiber dyed before manufacture.
An ingrain rug or carpet.
tr.v. in·grained, in·grain·ing, in·grains
To fix deeply or indelibly, as in the mind: “A system that had been ingrained for generations could not be easily undone by change from the top” (Doris Kearns Goodwin).
Archaic. To dye or stain into the fiber of.
adj. (ngrn)
Deep-seated; ingrained.
Made of predyed fibers; thoroughly dyed: ingrain yarn.
Made of fiber or yarn dyed before weaving. Used especially of rugs.
n. (ngrn)
Yarn or fiber dyed before manufacture.
An ingrain rug or carpet.
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Thoram Steinfaust
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:07 pm
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Thoram Steinfaust
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:07 pm
josef is an old dwarf with an old name. if real life names and names from pc games not allowed we must delete about 50% of the chars. for example: shi and sun are asian rl names, sevious helios--> helios was a greek god, astral and ryland are names from the game heroes of might and magic, john irenicus is a name from baldurs gate2 and john is also a rl name...
i can continue with the list, but i think it is not necessary. all the names are ok because this are really names. but if the gm's or the programmers want that i change my name i will do it...
i can continue with the list, but i think it is not necessary. all the names are ok because this are really names. but if the gm's or the programmers want that i change my name i will do it...
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Sevious Helios
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 12:16 am
- Location: United States-Alton
Josef real names can be used. Like John and the such. Check the name rules. My name is legal too. Even if Helios is a greek god's name it is still legal since it is the last name of my character. Some other examples such as this is. Jack Ravenclaw, Charlze woodenson. In the middle ages the surname of a person was usually on what their occupation was. Such if you were a gold smith your last name could be "Goldsmith". People could of also been named from a knight and the such. So there you have it.
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Thoram Steinfaust
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:07 pm
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Sevious Helios
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 12:16 am
- Location: United States-Alton
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Thoram Steinfaust
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:07 pm
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Loki Feuerhaar
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 9:20 pm
- Location: Trolls Bane
I don't think everyone sees that name as having such religious aspect. As long as he isn't pretending to be that person, or having a last name that indicates he is that person, I don't see how it is a problem.
Although not possible currently (maybe never) it would be interesting if eventually the whole introduction and name system was made so that individual people could assign the names they learn to others. I realize this is probably impractical, but it is a interesting idea none-the-less. Since remembering numbers and putting names to them seems hard to me (maybe others?) it would be interesting in a game to see a system where you could set it up so you saw someone who's name you didn't know, but was nice to you as "A Nice Person" because you decided to remember them like that. Another interesting thing might be to have a alternate introduction name, something like Loki Feuerhaar being able to introduce himself to some as "Mr.Feuerhaar". Using the different introduction method you'd have to have the full name override any other one though... Ok, way off topic there.
I have some qualms about limiting names like "Ingrain" because even in english speaking countries people use names of things to name people, people with names like "Daisy" or "April" or things like that. With the exception of some things like "Killer", "Axe" and things like that, which are never used or even thought of as names (although if they can come up with a good reason...
), I think there should be some leeway for people (The name "Igraine" is the name of a person in stories of King Arthur and isn't such a far cry from "Ingrain") concerning names especially if they didn't know it was a word in another language, or intend it in any bad manner.
Although not possible currently (maybe never) it would be interesting if eventually the whole introduction and name system was made so that individual people could assign the names they learn to others. I realize this is probably impractical, but it is a interesting idea none-the-less. Since remembering numbers and putting names to them seems hard to me (maybe others?) it would be interesting in a game to see a system where you could set it up so you saw someone who's name you didn't know, but was nice to you as "A Nice Person" because you decided to remember them like that. Another interesting thing might be to have a alternate introduction name, something like Loki Feuerhaar being able to introduce himself to some as "Mr.Feuerhaar". Using the different introduction method you'd have to have the full name override any other one though... Ok, way off topic there.
I have some qualms about limiting names like "Ingrain" because even in english speaking countries people use names of things to name people, people with names like "Daisy" or "April" or things like that. With the exception of some things like "Killer", "Axe" and things like that, which are never used or even thought of as names (although if they can come up with a good reason...
), I think there should be some leeway for people (The name "Igraine" is the name of a person in stories of King Arthur and isn't such a far cry from "Ingrain") concerning names especially if they didn't know it was a word in another language, or intend it in any bad manner.Quain, I will agreww with you on that, that words that are also names, such as April, Florence (also a city in Italy), Abby (also a religous cathedral), Daisy, etc... are fine, because they are words but they are also common names and are created and thought of as the name only, not the item they describe.
Words that are not common names, however, Bark, Bat (as in this Bat Man), Bazooka (lots wrong with that one), Craft, etc... are made not to be names but to be descriptive.
Ingrain I actually thought long and hard on, and passed it by many times, but I can think of noone named "Ingrain", and ingrain has a meaning that would be used to be descriptive as the above mentioned.
It is tough, which names are okay, which names aren't. And on questionable ones I generally ask another GM or Admin. Some there is no thought of. "Dragon ..." not a name. "Knight ..." If they have a name after, it's a title, okay, not allowed but can be fixed. "Crash".. that ones gotta go. Incidently, all the examples I"ve given are from current player names.
It's simply insane the names people come up with in violation of the rules, and I do try to be fair and impartial. I dont know Ingrain from Cranberry from Dabrek Resbe.
But in trying to keep an RP game where redicoulous names are not allowed there is a fine line as to what is allowed and what isn't, and sometimes the line is crossed both ways. I should delete this one, not this one. No, not that one, but this one. No, no, this other one.
Within the last 4 days or so 882 bad names have been moved. Many more have been renamed (generally based on character number if they are in game, if not in game they are simply moved. A lot of times request for renames come from those).
Heck, you try to decide if Theman is a name, or The Man especially when it's spelled theman.
Words that are not common names, however, Bark, Bat (as in this Bat Man), Bazooka (lots wrong with that one), Craft, etc... are made not to be names but to be descriptive.
Ingrain I actually thought long and hard on, and passed it by many times, but I can think of noone named "Ingrain", and ingrain has a meaning that would be used to be descriptive as the above mentioned.
It is tough, which names are okay, which names aren't. And on questionable ones I generally ask another GM or Admin. Some there is no thought of. "Dragon ..." not a name. "Knight ..." If they have a name after, it's a title, okay, not allowed but can be fixed. "Crash".. that ones gotta go. Incidently, all the examples I"ve given are from current player names.
It's simply insane the names people come up with in violation of the rules, and I do try to be fair and impartial. I dont know Ingrain from Cranberry from Dabrek Resbe.
But in trying to keep an RP game where redicoulous names are not allowed there is a fine line as to what is allowed and what isn't, and sometimes the line is crossed both ways. I should delete this one, not this one. No, not that one, but this one. No, no, this other one.
Within the last 4 days or so 882 bad names have been moved. Many more have been renamed (generally based on character number if they are in game, if not in game they are simply moved. A lot of times request for renames come from those).
Heck, you try to decide if Theman is a name, or The Man especially when it's spelled theman.
You bring up a good point which from the start of my previous post I meant to, but seem to have veered away from it, that point being intent. When you come to these iffy names, intent should matter don't you think? If the person intended to be named after some word they know, or if they didn't know it was a word.
In the cast of theman I'd suggest going up to them and whispering "The Man?" if they respond "Yes?" or something indicating that was their intent. This would take too much time to do though.
Last I heard the next update will also be bringing the e-mail application system for playing, so I suppose eventually this will become a moot point.
I only really threw my voice of dissent in here because I know how grumpy I would be if someone were to find out my name means something in another language, or were someone to example read about 'Cinquain' poems and think "Oh, he got the name from that, he should have his name changed". I came up with Quain before I ever knew about the 'Cinquain' poems, and have used it for almost every roleplaying game I've used (with a view variable last names).
200+ Names a day, you sure have been busy. I understand it is a judgment call, and you don't really have the time to spend too much on a lot of the names, due to the volume of them, but I think if Ingrain is willing to risk the public ire by bringing his problem out like this, perhaps he should deserve to keep his name?
Just as a side note, which I thought I'd bring up here for reasons that shouldn't be hard to deduce, does anyone think we should start referring to German and English ingame as the "Old" and "New" Common Tongue(language)? I am not sure if this has previously been suggested, and haven't done a really good search on it, but if not it seems a good way of working in the language difference and explaining why many people speak them, not dependant upon race.
In the cast of theman I'd suggest going up to them and whispering "The Man?" if they respond "Yes?" or something indicating that was their intent. This would take too much time to do though.
Last I heard the next update will also be bringing the e-mail application system for playing, so I suppose eventually this will become a moot point.
I only really threw my voice of dissent in here because I know how grumpy I would be if someone were to find out my name means something in another language, or were someone to example read about 'Cinquain' poems and think "Oh, he got the name from that, he should have his name changed". I came up with Quain before I ever knew about the 'Cinquain' poems, and have used it for almost every roleplaying game I've used (with a view variable last names).
200+ Names a day, you sure have been busy. I understand it is a judgment call, and you don't really have the time to spend too much on a lot of the names, due to the volume of them, but I think if Ingrain is willing to risk the public ire by bringing his problem out like this, perhaps he should deserve to keep his name?
Just as a side note, which I thought I'd bring up here for reasons that shouldn't be hard to deduce, does anyone think we should start referring to German and English ingame as the "Old" and "New" Common Tongue(language)? I am not sure if this has previously been suggested, and haven't done a really good search on it, but if not it seems a good way of working in the language difference and explaining why many people speak them, not dependant upon race.
Quain: I call my character Banananose but my intent was not to be thought of as a "Banana Nose". Should that name stay? It is not as much intent, but how the name will be percieved, I think. Does the name take overly from the RP theme?
With that, I'm done talking about names.
Myself, when someone speaks to me in German I will repond with something like, "I dont understand your elven (hobbit/lizard/human/whatever) tongue. Could you repeat that in Common please?"
Common was, in AD&D anyway, the "common" langauge spoken by the majority of the races. Pretty much as English (or French for you Frenchmen *g*) is learned the world over now.
Perhaps we have our own common langauge, Illarion? Illarionan? Illarionian? Just don't speak Ill to me
With that, I'm done talking about names.
Myself, when someone speaks to me in German I will repond with something like, "I dont understand your elven (hobbit/lizard/human/whatever) tongue. Could you repeat that in Common please?"
Common was, in AD&D anyway, the "common" langauge spoken by the majority of the races. Pretty much as English (or French for you Frenchmen *g*) is learned the world over now.
Perhaps we have our own common langauge, Illarion? Illarionan? Illarionian? Just don't speak Ill to me
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Caranthir the great
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Yes, when someone speaks to me in german, and I don't understand it or I know that I have no chance of replying in german, I ask them to 'Repeat that in common, please'.
Too bad that everyone can't always figure out what common is, so nowdays I am sliding towards ''English'.
It was kind of funny yesterday, when I was explaining the namerules to a Finn' with a invalid name. The conversation was held in Finnish, and because it was OOC, it was tagged with ()'s.
Regardless of that, people came up and said 'What kind of old dwarven language are you speaking? I can't understand a word!'
Well, aye. I guess that it was propably the longest conversation in Illarion ever held in finnish
Too bad that everyone can't always figure out what common is, so nowdays I am sliding towards ''English'.
It was kind of funny yesterday, when I was explaining the namerules to a Finn' with a invalid name. The conversation was held in Finnish, and because it was OOC, it was tagged with ()'s.
Regardless of that, people came up and said 'What kind of old dwarven language are you speaking? I can't understand a word!'
Well, aye. I guess that it was propably the longest conversation in Illarion ever held in finnish
My Solution.
Everybody who wants to be my Friend - Just call me Ingrain!
All the others - don't talk to me!!!
I hope Serpadum, you can live with that.
Jeder der mein Freund sein will - nennt mich weiter Ingrain!
Alle andern - halten Ihren Mund!!!
Ich hoffe die Götter fühlen sich jetzt nicht genötigt Ihre Regeln zu verschärfen...
All the others - don't talk to me!!!
I hope Serpadum, you can live with that.
Jeder der mein Freund sein will - nennt mich weiter Ingrain!
Alle andern - halten Ihren Mund!!!
Ich hoffe die Götter fühlen sich jetzt nicht genötigt Ihre Regeln zu verschärfen...