Orc Player Availability VS Goblins?

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Aerceriah
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Orc Player Availability VS Goblins?

Post by Aerceriah »

DISCLAIMER: I am not intending to be the cause of any heated discussion here and apologize for the length of this post, as I realize it is somewhat long and probably even a pointless subject for many viewers. This is all strictly opinion and it is not in any way within my best interest to argue with or criticize anybody or anything with this thread -- particularly those of you with orc characters. Please don't see this post as coming off to be "negative" or "rude" toward the game, but rather, just one person's question and random opinion about orcs.

All right, so I didn't really think much into this until it was mentioned in the player-chat last night with a few random people and was I just partially curious and left wondering why it is that goblins are considered to be "special characters" as opposed to the orcish race, where anybody completely new to the game has the opportunity to play an orc character, but not a goblin character. I myself have participated in a few notable MMORPGs with the same style / taste as to this one and it has always turned out, at least according to my own experience, that orcs were generally considered to be nothing more than NPC characters who'd sit out in the middle of the wilderness or hide out with their own little clans and wait around for anybody to intrude upon them, only to eventually attack them for their blood and bones (ex. similar to that of the gnolls/trolls in Illarion). Note that I'm completely aware that Illarion, "is not supposed to be like other MMORPGs" and understand that fully. As far as to the conversation that occurred went along, I've heard two pretty good key points in regards to this question...

1. Orcs are fairly simple-minded characters, they don't need to be considered "special". This is very true and is probably the best answer to this question, along with some backing details (see next point)...

2. There are some individual players who play orc characters rather well and that's just how the game is. Orcs have been involved as being playable since the beginnings of development when it comes to this game and, well...that's just the way things are. ;)

That is not to say I'm making an attempt to exterminate all orcs entirely, or expect any change for that matter as I'm plainly aware there are many players who love their orc characters and again, ones who probably play them extremely well. That would just be flat-out ridiculous to expect anything like that and obviously, a task such as this couldn't possibly be handled in any light manner anyways, but again, I am only curious as to how orcs can be easily available for playing, as I almost see and compare it to that of players having the ability to choose to be something like -- for example, an undead creature or a gnoll -- with the possibility to log into and wander around the game client. In my eyes, orcs should almost fall into that same, little category of "monsters of Illarion" and goblins would probably lean the most toward being more 'player-friendly', if anything.

Again, I'm not implying to make them like the dinosaurs and *POOF* - be gone, but I will have to admit it was a little surprising, especially for my character, to see one particular orc sharing a drink with the local townsfolk at the tavern and appearing to speak very kindly and nice with strangers, when the entire time my char had in mind: "Wow, shouldn't that hideous being be somewhere in the woods, making a totem-pole out of human heads?" :P

Overall, I think they are a great race and great addition to the game (how can Illarion NOT have orcs?)...which obviously, contradicts most of everything already mentioned here, but again, am curious primarily to the good nature of the orcs V.S.that of goblins, playing-wise, and just wanted to toss my curiosity out there to anybody who may be interested into taking an approach in explaining their own reasoning and opinions behind this. Many thanks for your time. Hopefully, I didn't successfully manage to strain or cause any hazardous damage to any eyes out there.
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Juliana D'cheyne
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Post by Juliana D'cheyne »

I think it depends on what your idea of an orc is as "played well" http://illarion.org/illarion/races/us_orcs.php
Normally, orcs are not bloodthirsty, but when they fight with other races, their primary war tactics is to cause fear in their enemies.
If a human insults an orc, the orc wouldn't immediatly strike him with a weapon, instead he would make a fierce, suiting answer, trying to make the other one look stupid. But since the orcish humor appears a little rough compared to a human's, it takes a lot for a human to insult an orc ( if he does not start to insult the orc's tribe or race ). In the most cases, it's the human who attacks first.
I see nothing wrong with an orc in a tavern with others *shrugs*

As far as applying for one, I don't know why some were set for application and others not, it could possibly be how many were in game at the time yet I know it is very desirable for separate races to act like that race, this lends variety to the game.
Keikan Hiru
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Post by Keikan Hiru »

Are you by chance mistaking the status of the 'Special Races' as hostile towards all other 'Default Races' ? It's not the case and was never meant to be.

Those selected few races were introduced later to the game and considered to be fairly difficult to play with and would need an advanced roleplayer to handle.
See them as prestige class along the lines of:
'Hey look at me, I am such a good roleplayer that I can have fairy wings and be childish all day long.'

About a friendly chatting, flower-picking orc, well that could either be simply poor roleplay or a behaviour-trait of said character that an outside observer cannot understand at first glance.
On the other hand, while orcs are savage and much more primitive as all the other races they are not an auto-attack race at all.

Take a deeper look into Illarion-Orcs here.
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orgis
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Post by orgis »

Lol I see what you mean hen, but if someone is in for the long term pull with a orc char they should know how to act proply in acordence with the race e.g my orc orgis was more on the orc witt side of things as if someone was to insult the the orc race or clan normaly i would rahter my orc reply with a nice quick insult right back at the char that insulted him first never raise a blade if it can be helped is the usally all orcs mottos in the dar'crest lol.

also not all orcs are brain dead smashy smashy lol thats jsut one of the easy ways to play an orc it all depends on the po and if they can handle it without going off the rails e.g starting a fight with a said char for no reason example

"hello mister orc"

"meh smash yuu!! *bonk "

and 9 times out of 10 any player that acts like that wont be around much longer as they will get bored of gettign pwned every time they hit someone who can take them out in a few hits hehe.

As for the orc drinking in the pub in town lol if not most likely hes in or spoken to the roc clan that lives on the islands northen mountains, they follow their leader/shaman and they both have brains even for orcs lol so say the elader of the clan said "nub smashie dem in da tuwn" you dont do that...

another thing is i find most orcs to be good schemers or at least they played their orcs to only truely trust another orc, so sure the orc could be drinking in the pub but he wouldnt really trust him like he would trust his 'bruddah' ;)

p.s: yes you will get a 'flower orc' but jsut too point out a flower orc is usually not a follower of the main god of the orcs e.g moshy but for this i think you really need a strong reason, one of my other orcs... cant remeber his name but i rped him as a fire orc (check the wiki for the meaning ;) ) and thus why he wasnt like the usual smashie smashie orcs

and one final reason; for those who dont do english/german that good an orc is the ebst way too go rofl when i first started my english for typing was nothing more than ungodly lol
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Post by Keikan Hiru »

orgis wrote:my english for typing was nothing more than ungodly
I can't decipher your post at all.
How about you take your time to when you are posting something? Nobody is rushing you.
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orgis
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Post by orgis »

I think i will once i have time, just for you keikan :p
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Post by Keikan Hiru »

I'm sorry Aerceriah for derailing your topic even more, but I have to clarify something.

Ogris, you don't need to do it "just for me".
If you want to be part of a discussion it's not only important to make yourself heard (i.e.: being the loudest) but also understood.
If that is not the case, how do you expect your opinion to be recognized and maybe accepted by others?

Board discussions yield a pretty nice advantage of not being prompted to answer right away, but being able to take your time to answer.
People tend to forget that (myself not excluded).

So, take your time, run your posts through a spellchecker if a foreign language gives you difficulties and always re-read what you just typed.
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Post by Olive »

actually i had no trouble understanding orgis' post because i knew the dialect he speaks.

of course my dyslexia lets me read other's typos as the proper words, so go figure :o
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Aerceriah
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Post by Aerceriah »

I'd first off like to thank the three of you for your input on this and have of course, glanced at the links provided above a few times before hand but have re-read parts of it over to now realize that there's more of a well-developed history among the race than to how I'm comparing it to be like. The issue of myself mistakenly believing that 'special races' are to be as hostile to that of the 'default races' isn't the case, but for the most part, it seems likely to me outside of the game and -- as I believe I've even stated IN the game with my character, previously at a time before -- this is merely something I'm just not used to seeing, but will need to get used to. ;)

Secondly, I originally failed to see the difference in how goblins are special to that of orcs, but as stated above, when you consider the other races that were introduced later into the game, well...things ended up the way they are naturally. The behaviour traits you mentioned of, Keikan are an important factor, yes you're right. It's almost like the famous saying, "You can't judge a book by it's cover," and I will admit, that is something else I should actually bear in mind when I see such ingame events take place. In the long-run, my curiosity simply took over into meaning, but my question and understanding of the way goblins fall into being hailed part of "special" characters makes more and more sense at this point. That being said, I think it is safe to say I have more of an understanding on the "new" look of that specific race and may even consider creating, playing and experimenting with an orc character sometime in the near future. Thanks again all for the clarification.
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orgis
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Post by orgis »

goblins are a hard (or what looks) race too rp as (as far as i know might need to chekc up) little history too compare the way you will be able to rp the said char.

The thing about this game is its really the people behind the chars that make the succesfull char. The gms really just give us a story to base facts on and to reflect ideas for the chars.

Goblins wernt first in the game thus people would find it harder to find these things to base their goblin char on and because of this if you were just allowed to pick that race, you would be getting very poorly rped chars which would have every kind of trait which would really bring the race down in my eyes. One of the only goblins i'v seen around is the orcs clan shaman and hands down too him he really good at getting his char over as its own race and not have wee bits of this and that... thats my thougths anyway

p.s il be spell checking in wee while, really busy the now ke ;)
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

I believe the entire concept of the 'special races' was simply so people don't go overboard with the new-fangled thing.

The day when treasure maps came to pass, everyone suddenly discovered fishing.

I'm pretty sure the higher-ups wanted to ensure that there isn't an enourmous influx of these special races, all with different ideas (on how to roleplay) et cetera, most of which just vaporise when the novelty wears off.

Sounds rather familiar, let me tell you that.
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Post by Keikan Hiru »

If that would really be the entire reasoning behind this limitation, it would have been dropped by now, wouldn't it?
These races aren't that new anymore.

These three races in question simply play a lot different to the default ones.
From my point of view they have a very pacifistic touch to them, hardly relying on the skills in the fighting tab of their skill tree.

Playing (almost) non-aggressive races in a dangerous environment like Gobiath is, requires an advanced roleplayer with a sound concept behind his character.
Something like that is not found in someone logging for the first time.

That’s why they are 'special' and limited, because of their level of difficulty.
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Mesha
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Post by Mesha »

I'm personally not sure about the non-aggresive part of it all Keikan, however, truth is that playing one of the special races requires a good character concept and it is incredibly difficult to pull off a good character concept in the case of our special races (true, well-played goblins or the likes are hard!).
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Post by CJK »

Keikan Hiru wrote:
orgis wrote:my english for typing was nothing more than ungodly
I can't decipher your post at all.
How about you take your time to when you are posting something? Nobody is rushing you.
There is a song that goes:
"Don't critisize that which you can't understand."

You need to understand that he isn't native english -OR- german, so the fact he knew to play an orc (And rp play him amazingly well) is a kudos to him.
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