Library Research Skill

[Llama]

This suggestion calls for the removal of this skill, or not making it effect the learning cap.

Reason: This skill is perfectally USELESS, except for reading books. Now, reading books is something pretty fun to do, if you don't have anyone to roleplay with. However in effect, the choice of what you read is limited by umm... how much books you read before.

Also books are the work of a person who stayed writing them - so all the work this person did won't be seen unless a person decides to PG this otherwise useless skill.

I suggest that the skill is removed. It does nothing for the game, except is another skill to level up. If I decide I want to go do some reading because there's nobody online, or because I like reading; why should I need to skill up to do it?

Also, most people assume their characters are literate (See: RPG board).

Discuss.

[Juliana D'cheyne]

I was hoping as in previous suggestions on library skill, that eventually it could be scripted to help skill in some areas. As an example, if a new char wanted to become a carpenter, they would read a book and get.... just throwing something out.. a 3% skill up when first reading the book, after that first 3%, it would then do nothing. This though may be impossible to script.

[Matron]

Reason: This skill is perfectally USELESS

I like the skill, I trained it at around 75 so far (that is not difficult) and there is a use since you can write your own books:

You can set a certain amount of skill necessary for one to be able to read that book
-> Not everybody can just read it (which I like because people could have written down stuff that is not supposed to be known by all)

Also, most people assume their characters are literate (See: RPG board).

Many people come and assume their characters were warriors, crafters, etc before

Also books are the work of a person who stayed writing them - so all the work this person did won't be seen unless a person decides to PG this otherwise useless skill.

Maybe lower it for public books only then.

[Llama]

-> Not everybody can just read it (which I like because people could have written down stuff that is not supposed to be known by all)

If you don't want everyone reading something, then don't write it at all. Setting it based on how much they can PG reading is stupid.
--

I think library research should remain as a 'book reading' skill, which is removed. If my character wants to read books because its fun for me to do, I don't need to pg.

[Ambrosine]

Don't you also need a certain amount of this skill to learn Ancient originally? I know all the language books were taken out of the game (something I don't actually agree with, but whatever) but Ancient is still something you learn directly from a book. Wouldn't you agree that it does take some skill to learn different languages and research from different texts?

[Dariya]

-> Not everybody can just read it (which I like because people could have written down stuff that is not supposed to be known by all)

If you don't want everyone reading something, then don't write it at all.

I like you and your sometimes freaky ideas, Adrian, but this is nonsense, and I guess you know that.
If, for example, there are recipes or knowledge about certain herbs with the druids, which they only want to share and make accessable to "skilled druids" (who are also capable of reading and researching), they write a book, put in their shelf and not everyone will be able to read it, not entirely at least.

If you like this skill or not, it IS useful.
Don't try to get rid of everything that your chars don't use or you don't like.

[Llama]

So instead make it scale with a different skill.

For example if you write a book for druids, make it scale with whatever skill druidism uses.

If I write a book on magic, make it use one of the magic skills; much more logical.

[Dariya]

nonsense, you don't learn reading by searching for herbs or whatever, you learn reading by reading.

I like that research skill and I like the books, and if either of both is taken out of the game, I ... I ... don't know, I'll think about that

[Llama]

Most characters can read (See: RP board).

However, more techincal terms wouldn't require READING skill, but rather skill in whatever topic you're talking about.

I for example can read a textbook on complex anatomy, but I won't understand anything. It doesn't mean that I can't read anything to save my life.

[Dariya]

come on, stop counting peas, Adrian

if you don't like that skill, don't put any effort in it
if you don't like the books, do not read them *shrugs*

[Llama]

That expression made me laugh

I like reading books, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

Also its a perfectally reasonable argument. Just because I am literate enough to read a book doesn't mean I can understand it - if i don't know the subject.

[Dariya]

of course you do not necessarily get every bit of the content when reading a book, still you increase your ability to read, which imho should be necessary for certain kinds of profession. Not for let's says smiths, they surely can learn better by watching a master smith. But in my eyes magic and druidism contains a bit of science as well, for which research is enevitable.

there you are, and now after you laughed about me I won't post anymore *pouts*

[Llama]

I didn't laugh at you, but I found the expression humorous.

Thing is, reading gives no engine benefits, so why should it be based on an engine skill?

[AlexRose]

Don't you also need a certain amount of this skill to learn Ancient originally? I know all the language books were taken out of the game (something I don't actually agree with, but whatever) but Ancient is still something you learn directly from a book. Wouldn't you agree that it does take some skill to learn different languages and research from different texts?

No you don't need "library reserach" to learn languages.

@Dariya:

Oh, okay. Basically "We don't want anyone but our druids to read our books, so we make it so you have to pg to read them". Right, because noone else can pg books in the whole universe, just druids, so there's no chance whatsoever that anyone else could possibly read your books.

I agree. It's misspelt anyway, and it's rather useless. I don't read the books because I can't be arsed pging, and I don't see why everyone is all for pging to read, especially when you rp a scholar.

[Nitram]

I like reading books, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

I like being the strongest warrior, able to kill everyone else, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

[Dariya]

@Dariya:

Oh, okay. Basically "We don't want anyone but our druids to read our books, so we make it so you have to pg to read them". Right, because noone else can pg books in the whole universe, just druids, so there's no chance whatsoever that anyone else could possibly read your books.

Alex, it was an example ... remember that the druids have nothing but rp ... since ... eternity?!

[AlexRose]

I like reading books, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

I like being the strongest warrior, able to kill everyone else, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

Yeah so you just use your gm tools.

Anyhow, fighting is an obvious engine thing, if you took fighting out that'd ruin the game. Reading is an rped thing that you do for fun ig (personally I wouldn't because I probably wouldn't care about the content), but for people who actually want to read whatever drivel they contain, I'm sure they're not going to be at all motivated to pg hardcore just so they can spend 10 minutes reading the whole contents of the library.

You can gather herbs. Surely druids are rp chars right now who aren't motivated to pg? If I created a druid, I wouldn't then go "OOH COOL NOW WHAT USELESS SKILL DO I GET TO PG SO I CAN BE DA BEST DRUID?!!?1!!1!" I don't see why you'd be UPSET that you could use your system without having to pg. If it's something like fighting or magic, then fine, you'd want people to have to pg so noobs couldn't walk ig and be able to own you immediately even though you'd played years. However, you think someone's going to challenge you to a reading duel or something?

[Llama]

I like reading books, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

I like being the strongest warrior, able to kill everyone else, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

I like being the best reader, able to read every single book, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

[Nitram]

I like reading books, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

I like being the strongest warrior, able to kill everyone else, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

I like being the best reader, able to read every single book, but I don't want to go skill up to be able to do that.

As already the great philosopher Mick Jagger said...

[Llama]

Isn't illarion supposed to be a roleplaying game? So do we REALLY need an added skill for this?

Also the link idea was funny

[HolyKnight]

We could always make the library research skill useful you know? Instead of it just being able to help you read more complicated books it could also help practically. Surely it makes perfect sense that when you are doing RESEARCH not just reading for pleasure you LEARN something from the material you are pouring countless hours on. Therefore, would it not make sense that their would be books on Gobaith that were for reading pleasure and books that you have to research to learn something from.

This way you can still have POs write their books chronicling the events they chose that all literate people can read. Then you could have a totally different set of books for the intellectuals of the island that could actually TEACH them something. This could include tailoring, smithing, herb lore, slashing, OF COURSE TACTICS, and all the other skills. People DO learn things from reading books, hell every class I have ever had in college I had to buy books even for a painting class. The library research skill CAN be useful and I would love to see it happen. Because I want to write books to put in the game that are for pleasure and for learning. Just like every other skill it can have an attribute correlated with it, intelligence. That way people with 3 intelligence can't learn certain things from books. Just like a person with 3 dexterity cannot craft a wind wand.

Oh RP can be produced from having the library research skill people just chose not to. I can think of a few: The Librarian Guild, Scholars of Gobaith, The Reading Club, Politicians, and of course N3rdz 1337.


@ Hadrian there are actually people that can pick up professional books and understand them. I am not one of those people but I don't have 18-20 intelligence like some of our Illarionites.

Library Research = specific skill swirlies =makes skill USEFUL.

[Julius]

You can't learn martial arts from a book, eventually you'll have to act it out. Getting fighting skills from a book is a rather.. ignorant idea. Maybe one or two swirlies if someone is just starting out.. but saying that someone could learning any type of fighting beyond level 10 from a book is absurd.

[Dónal Mason]

Then make books give a higher chance of gaining a skill point for a while. You can't learn martial arts from a book, but you can learn techniques that need practice to become useful.

[HolyKnight]

This is a game I am not going for 100% realism here. Perhaps there are certain books that hold enchantments upon them that open up your mind. However, if you are going to take the 100% realism side, then the best place to learn tactics is in a book. This is why military schools were created. Sure you can learn it by experience but more people die that way. Instead consolidate all your working knowledge of tactics and put it into a book and then teach all your students. That way when they go into combat they actually have a working knowledge of what the heck to do.

[Deinarious]

I really like HolyKnight's proposal. But make it only give like, the first couple levels after an equal amount of readings.

Also, maybe making Library Research easier to train to a certain point. Like for example, from 1-25 it's easy, 26-75 is average to medium hard, 75-100 is downright difficult.

Either that or make a certain stat combination, i.e. Intelligence and Perception, at a certain level, make it easier to increase the skill. Like, INT 13+ and PER 12+ would give a bonus, with the limit for bonuses being at INT 16 and PER 15 of a +3% for each usage.

After all, unless you are dyslexic, blind, or just plain retarded, reading is rather easy for even a 5 or 6 year old to learn. I remember learning it at age 4 1/2.

[Julius]

This is a game I am not going for 100% realism here. Perhaps there are certain books that hold enchantments upon them that open up your mind. However, if you are going to take the 100% realism side, then the best place to learn tactics is in a book. This is why military schools were created. Sure you can learn it by experience but more people die that way. Instead consolidate all your working knowledge of tactics and put it into a book and then teach all your students. That way when they go into combat they actually have a working knowledge of what the heck to do.

Okay, tactics then.

Learning how to parry a blow from a sword, or slash a man through a book is impossible even if your going for 1 % realism. You still need to build the brawn, the ability to wield the blade, the familiarity and all the other things that go along with me a master swordsman.

[Athian]

Why not place goodies into books? Make the reaserach skill like fishing. reading the right book with the right amount of skill might land someone an old page or parchement with a map written on it for example. or it might lead to a secret location that can only be found by having the said item (page, map, instructions etc) Items that are found in books can be found mulitple times. but you need to carry ink and parchement to copy down the knowledge when you do. That sucess in copying information down and creating said map or secret information could also be based on library research.

[Pellandria]

Learning how to parry a blow from a sword, or slash a man through a book is impossible even if your going for 1 % realism. You still need to build the brawn, the ability to wield the blade, the familiarity and all the other things that go along with me a master swordsman.

Indeed even today doctors get in vast amounts of human testsubjects to slice them up and find out what and what not should be done...reading books to gain knowledge..geez thats so yesterday d'uh.

Ahh and don't forget all those mechanics and crafters and constructionworker and almost every other possible thing on earth, all done with never looking once into a book and never learning anythign someone allready did before you and found a better way than you ever will.

[Llama]

Wait so you're saying

"PG library research skill, so you can get some skill points in something else"

Why not just PG the something else skill in the first place?

[Julius]

Learning how to parry a blow from a sword, or slash a man through a book is impossible even if your going for 1 % realism. You still need to build the brawn, the ability to wield the blade, the familiarity and all the other things that go along with me a master swordsman.

Indeed even today doctors get in vast amounts of human testsubjects to slice them up and find out what and what not should be done...reading books to gain knowledge..geez thats so yesterday d'uh.

Ahh and don't forget all those mechanics and crafters and constructionworker and almost every other possible thing on earth, all done with never looking once into a book and never learning anythign someone allready did before you and found a better way than you ever will.

Probing someone's chest is a lot different then a weak ass man picking up a book, coming out a day later and beating a char that has spent months training. Months training, building muscle, familiarity with the blade and other things that this guy has learned from a book in one day? Nah.