I dislike the way how mages are depending on druids/merchants to regain there Mana..so here we go.
Mana Stones will enable Chars to regain Mana faster, without the use of Manapotions.We could have static Manastones, which could stand on the crossing of streams or portable.
Static: As Mana is gained from the streams, we could "point out" the crossing of the Manastreams or just give the yellow crosses another use, just "use" the cross or stand near them will regain Mana faster, this would be quiete usefull for rituals (rune room) or healing someone near a cross, using the Mana stone/cross itself will immobilize the char, if he gets hit he looses his mana or gets a critical hit.
Portable: Almost the same, as soon as you use the stone your Char will be immobilized and as soon as he gets hit his mana drains completly or/and critical hit, this prevents people from using them in combat and still leaves a gap for mana potions, maybe the stone itselfs needs to be "loaded" up at some time, feeding the Stone Mana at the crosspoints or simply with your own Mana, so you have more or less a rechargeable batterie of Manaenergy, we might later include any recharging with the priest system.
Mana Stones
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Pellandria
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Harald Hradradr
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Well, guess magicians are powerful in this game, very powerful. To give them the option to completly denie interaction with anyone else but themselves - as if nearly all magicians ig aren't self sufficient anyways *g* - would lead easily to powergaming.
But not that alone, since a magician would not have to negotiate with anyone he might care even less about others. See, e.g. a fighter needs - at least - good equipment, therefor he needs a good smith. So a fighter better does not mess around with smithing guilds or good smiths because he might lose a supporter. A magician with such a stone does not need to care about anyone. This opens the option to kill anyone at will - after powercasting for some hours, of course.
So I say: What about NO!?
But not that alone, since a magician would not have to negotiate with anyone he might care even less about others. See, e.g. a fighter needs - at least - good equipment, therefor he needs a good smith. So a fighter better does not mess around with smithing guilds or good smiths because he might lose a supporter. A magician with such a stone does not need to care about anyone. This opens the option to kill anyone at will - after powercasting for some hours, of course.
So I say: What about NO!?
Last edited by Harald Hradradr on Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Mr. Cromwell
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I would rather implement "magical kidney stones" for mages, which materialize every time the mage casts more than 3 teleports in a row/ opens more than two portals in 30 minutes.
"You feel incredible pain and collapse on the ground. You start to think, that you sometimes shouldn't be so bloody lazy."
-90% health + 30 sec paralysis
..
So you are upset because you have to depend on other characters a little?
Justin Timberlake has something to say for you.
Dependancy is the way to go. Otherwise you just have to implement a sword/armor/health/stamina stones too.
"You feel incredible pain and collapse on the ground. You start to think, that you sometimes shouldn't be so bloody lazy."
-90% health + 30 sec paralysis
..
So you are upset because you have to depend on other characters a little?
Justin Timberlake has something to say for you.
Dependancy is the way to go. Otherwise you just have to implement a sword/armor/health/stamina stones too.
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Kaila Galathil Travinus
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Kaila Galathil Travinus
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When nalcaryos was causing havoc in trolls bane he casted a ton of self healing spells, killing spells and teleporting spells and i did not see him drink a single potion.
i think the fact that a mage can do so much without using a potion already hurts the druid business.
implementing a static object anyone can find and use whenever they want would cripple the druid business.
The only people left to sell to would be warriors for healing potions.
And wind potions to the two archers.
i think the fact that a mage can do so much without using a potion already hurts the druid business.
implementing a static object anyone can find and use whenever they want would cripple the druid business.
The only people left to sell to would be warriors for healing potions.
And wind potions to the two archers.
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Djironnyma
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Kaila Galathil Travinus
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Since Druids can't make potions now.... I don't see it hurting them much. If/when they are able to again....mana is still needed. The skills a char has seems to determine how fast they can regenerate mana. A warlock (like Pella) will not regenerate as fast as a mage (correct me if I am wrong), and a mage may use less mana for their spells then a warlock due to the skills. Also some times it may just depend on how long your char is willing to wait.. the same with health potions. If you have a poor char... they may can wait for their mana to build unless fighting... the same with a fighter char.. they can leave the area and wait for their health to build back.Jaren wrote:When nalcaryos was causing havoc in trolls bane he casted a ton of self healing spells, killing spells and teleporting spells and i did not see him drink a single potion.
i think the fact that a mage can do so much without using a potion already hurts the druid business.
implementing a static object anyone can find and use whenever they want would cripple the druid business.
The only people left to sell to would be warriors for healing potions.
And wind potions to the two archers.
The stones would mainly help warlock and mage chars if helping to fight/heal others against NPC's IMO
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Pellandria
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Jaren, please think before yous ay something, Mana potions would still be a good alternativ, because they give a fast replesh of mana in a short time, guess you never played a mage anyway, so you have no idea about the mana system, and I'm not talking about anywhere but crosspoints, or are crosses everywhere around the map, they are scattered around towns and one or two in the wilderness, not much "everywhere".
Another thing is that figther and crafter gain incredible amount of money, while mages are next to useless without extrem powergaming or good equipment: Icebird 100- 200 Silver, Magical wand of wind/fire 100-200, Magic robe up to 40 silver and then we buy magical potions for around 30 coppers I believe, yeah and then ask for any income.
Btw. you don't see an enforced #me like healing potions, yo you don't know if he used mana potions.
And I'm not talking about infinitif mana, but a boosted mana regain, oh and please anyone who hasn't ever played a mage char nor has any idea about the system itself..please be quiete yes, obviously you have no idea how things work out .
Edit: Just look at smiths, most mine and sell there things, almost ever crafter jsut sell things and barely buys anything and mages continously have to buy things, but can't sell something and you still have to live from something, so its funny that people keep on this "bla bla mages are too powerfull" sorry but we are constantly nerfed down, just because we have a few powergamer we allready get punished.
Oh and kaila is right, Warlocks have lesser mana, lesser regain rate and use more mana for any spells.
Another thing is that figther and crafter gain incredible amount of money, while mages are next to useless without extrem powergaming or good equipment: Icebird 100- 200 Silver, Magical wand of wind/fire 100-200, Magic robe up to 40 silver and then we buy magical potions for around 30 coppers I believe, yeah and then ask for any income.
Btw. you don't see an enforced #me like healing potions, yo you don't know if he used mana potions.
And I'm not talking about infinitif mana, but a boosted mana regain, oh and please anyone who hasn't ever played a mage char nor has any idea about the system itself..please be quiete yes, obviously you have no idea how things work out .
Edit: Just look at smiths, most mine and sell there things, almost ever crafter jsut sell things and barely buys anything and mages continously have to buy things, but can't sell something and you still have to live from something, so its funny that people keep on this "bla bla mages are too powerfull" sorry but we are constantly nerfed down, just because we have a few powergamer we allready get punished.
Oh and kaila is right, Warlocks have lesser mana, lesser regain rate and use more mana for any spells.
Last edited by Pellandria on Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The stones would help people pg and own people -.- .
And on another level:
If you chose crap attributes and became a battle mage, don't whine that your spells are crap or you take too much mana or you can't do anything and that magic is underpowered. This is just because you tried to make a battle mage and.. (psst.. battle mages don't work). The only type of battle mage I can think of that would be half successful is a daggermage, and even then you'd have to lose all your constitution and still be a poor fighter. IMHO there's only one way battle magism can work, and that's making a just-below-average fighter with the minimum mage atts required and using magic simply for healing, which just isn't worth it.
And on another level:
If you chose crap attributes and became a battle mage, don't whine that your spells are crap or you take too much mana or you can't do anything and that magic is underpowered. This is just because you tried to make a battle mage and.. (psst.. battle mages don't work). The only type of battle mage I can think of that would be half successful is a daggermage, and even then you'd have to lose all your constitution and still be a poor fighter. IMHO there's only one way battle magism can work, and that's making a just-below-average fighter with the minimum mage atts required and using magic simply for healing, which just isn't worth it.
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Pellandria
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As you know, some people allready Pg magic and they don't need these or other stones, so why would that lead to pg, thats just f~cked up logic really and I don't whine, its jsut boring to wait somewhere for some time to get my Mana back, while I could rp elsewhere.
Oh and tell me how you can own people if your mana drains and you get a critical hit as soon as you get hit?
Oh and tell me how you can own people if your mana drains and you get a critical hit as soon as you get hit?
No, it's logic YOU don't understand. If YOU REGAIN MANA FASTER YOU CAN CAST MORE SPELLS IN A SHORTER AMOUNT OF TIME, THEREFORE PG. If you already PG, then you will be able to PG more effectively I imagine. When you have high skills, you put away your stones and go and own people with none of the bad effects.
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Taeryon Silverlight
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Mages aren't uberly powerful. And the system with the mana is logical but unfair to the mages. A mage can kill a warrior with the strongest Spells, right. But for those spells, you need very high skill. A warrior with the same skill in slashing or what ever can kill a mage in exact the same amount of hits, but the warrior doesn't need to drink a food potion after 5 hits to keep on hitting
edit: *with three - five of the strongest spells
Edit²: You really need a creepy amount of mana potions and you can get a max of about 15 a day, if you are lucky and get the merchant before any other mage can. Fact is, that I need about 15, up to 30 manapotions for a simple treasure hunting or a training where I have to cast iceflames and heal the warrior/s I'm going with. Ok, I dunno why, but I'm one of those who use the most mana potions of all mages, but bleh. Still, any mage needs about 5 - 10 Manapotions for a treasure hunt when he's doing more than a strong healing every 20 seconds.
edit: *with three - five of the strongest spells
Edit²: You really need a creepy amount of mana potions and you can get a max of about 15 a day, if you are lucky and get the merchant before any other mage can. Fact is, that I need about 15, up to 30 manapotions for a simple treasure hunting or a training where I have to cast iceflames and heal the warrior/s I'm going with. Ok, I dunno why, but I'm one of those who use the most mana potions of all mages, but bleh. Still, any mage needs about 5 - 10 Manapotions for a treasure hunt when he's doing more than a strong healing every 20 seconds.
Personally, I don't like the porta-stones. I agree with having something like a "Magic circle" (which should be in a very ugly place like in the middle of the forest or around mountains) which would allow you to regain mana faster.
Yes, mages need to train magic, and mana potions are EXPENSIVE. (Seriously 50 copper for 1) and very badly fought over.
And yes mages Do end up becomming really strong and uber, but its a very long path, which needs a ton of skill and empty mana bars.
Yes, mages need to train magic, and mana potions are EXPENSIVE. (Seriously 50 copper for 1) and very badly fought over.
And yes mages Do end up becomming really strong and uber, but its a very long path, which needs a ton of skill and empty mana bars.
In my eyes magic is much more powerful then fighting. As was clearly proven by Nalcaryos owning Trolls Bane, no one can hurt him enough to kill him. He has the ability to teleport away from people, cast a heal on himself and then cast a large field spell that can drain 25-50% of someone's health away. It is because of the simple fact that magic is a much more powerful form of combat then regular fighting that magic should be really difficult (and yes close to impossible) to master and be very strong at.
I do not think we want as many powerful mages around as we have powerful fighters.
As well having a manastone at every cross point is all over the place. A mage can linger just outside trolls bane casting spells on one of his friends perhaps and then go back to the cross to regain the mana lost.
Or that mage could go into the graveyard/old temple and regain the mana at the cross in trolls bane once they are done. It is still a much faster way for a mage to gain skill then it is now.
And to have a final statement you said:
"And I'm not talking about infinitif mana, but a boosted mana regain, oh and please anyone who hasn't ever played a mage char nor has any idea about the system itself..please be quiete yes, obviously you have no idea how things work out . "
By your logic no one who is a tailor should comment on how tailoring works, likewise with fishing, carpentry, blacksmith etc. And that is a ridiculous form of logic, if applied in the real world we would find that only people who have worked as police officiers should decide how police officers should act and well you can see where that would go.
We all play this game, when a skill is effected it effects the entire game and inturn the players. We all have the right to voice our opinions on every issue concerning this game. You shouldn't try and stiffle that because you don't like what you are hearing.
I do not think we want as many powerful mages around as we have powerful fighters.
As well having a manastone at every cross point is all over the place. A mage can linger just outside trolls bane casting spells on one of his friends perhaps and then go back to the cross to regain the mana lost.
Or that mage could go into the graveyard/old temple and regain the mana at the cross in trolls bane once they are done. It is still a much faster way for a mage to gain skill then it is now.
And to have a final statement you said:
"And I'm not talking about infinitif mana, but a boosted mana regain, oh and please anyone who hasn't ever played a mage char nor has any idea about the system itself..please be quiete yes, obviously you have no idea how things work out . "
By your logic no one who is a tailor should comment on how tailoring works, likewise with fishing, carpentry, blacksmith etc. And that is a ridiculous form of logic, if applied in the real world we would find that only people who have worked as police officiers should decide how police officers should act and well you can see where that would go.
We all play this game, when a skill is effected it effects the entire game and inturn the players. We all have the right to voice our opinions on every issue concerning this game. You shouldn't try and stiffle that because you don't like what you are hearing.
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Fianna Heneghan
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That is because nalcaryos is highly skilled. Its the equivalent of fighting dominic and then saying that fighting is overpowered. My mage can't cast more then 15 fireballs before the mana bar diesJaren wrote:In my eyes magic is much more powerful then fighting. As was clearly proven by Nalcaryos owning Trolls Bane, no one can hurt him enough to kill him. He has the ability to teleport away from people, cast a heal on himself and then cast a large field spell that can drain 25-50% of someone's health away.
you'll be hard pushed to find him -
Juliana D'cheyne
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Having a fighter char...not the most powerful, but at least strong, a mage char, a Druid/tailor char among others, I can say that a mage char is probably the weakest and hardest to do anything with ig for a very long time but RP. Any mage that can actually get skilled enough to accomplish anything after all the time ig ((and the inability to get loot for copper, nor do anything but rudimentary crafting to sell to NPC's for copper))... has got to be admired IMO. My mage char is much older then my fighter char and I have not PG'd either that much. What PGing was done was either to get copper to buy what is needed, get weapons, food, or RP with other chars.
Right now, I know of no strong fighter char ig, not like there used to be anyway..none with maxed skills. Taking the same amount of ig time comparing a mage to a fighter char, the figher char will own the mage every time. I also think there should be some advantages to the time PO's stay in game. These "powerful" mage chars have been ig a long time.
Right now, I know of no strong fighter char ig, not like there used to be anyway..none with maxed skills. Taking the same amount of ig time comparing a mage to a fighter char, the figher char will own the mage every time. I also think there should be some advantages to the time PO's stay in game. These "powerful" mage chars have been ig a long time.
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Mr. Cromwell
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Because some of you really need to have an example drawn for you AND because I'm such a nice guy ; Here is an illustrated version of what I am talking about:
That's basically it. A warrior has quicker start with gaining skill, that is eventually evened out by the fact that the monsters he has to tackle will get extremely challenging (and you need to kill a lot of them). The solution for that is of course group-fighting, but that would work for a mage as well (namely in regards to lack of money). It's safe to say that with 'casual playing', it's still extremely slow to become powerful as warrior. That's not to even mention that you need to *target* someone while training fighting skills (and doing that, you risk dying always) and often times that means you have to go a specific place to tackle the NPCs. Additonally fighters are dependant on merchants/craftsmen/cooks for their equipment.
Mages have initially a low yield and will take quite some time to reach the comparable lethality of a warrior who started at the same time (simply because gaining the runes takes a lot of time). However, after certain point he will completely surpass anything the warrior can do when it comes to killing. Besides, as far as I know (
) every field is just as good for the mage when it comes to training. Thus a mage doesn't have to risk his life to train the skills (which justifies the requirement for mana-regain) and just needs to do that to gain money (just for the mana potions). This is actually pretty well balanced in my opinion. A lot of work for the enormous payoff in the end.
Now, before some of you start screaming. Are the high end warriors extremely hard to take down? Yes. Can warriors take down mages of matching or exceeding skill? Yes.
However, magic is *the* killer in the game. A high end mage is extremely difficult to take down, if not impossible for warriors only (paralyze + flame, 'nuff said). Magic is simply versatile to such degree which fighting cannot ever hope to match. You use it for killing, fleeing or changing the battlefield or throwing your opponents around. If you want to make it easier to access, faster to learn, then its aggregate/comperative strenght will have to be decreased correspondingly. I'm fine with that, if the mage players want it. However, just making it easier to learn, making mages independant of others or making beginner-mages stronger would disturb the balance of the game. If someone has the patience to play a mage to the point where he is Archmage-level, I guess some of the power is well deserved. Nevertheless, the game doesn't need too many of such characters running around.
By the way, as Jaren said: "Mage players should only talk about magic" is complete bollocks. That attitude already gave us one magic-system which functions in less than optimal manner. This isn't some ingame magic guild, and some people around here ought to get it inside their skulls. The character you play only affects your ability to contribute when it comes to very small details; the rest is dependant on what is inside the person's head. Just because you happen to play a mage, it doesn't automatically mean that you'd somehow be an useful, contributing member when discussing about the topic.
Besides, I would say as my personal opinion that magic in the end is a lot cooler than fighting, simply because of the neat things you can do with it. Fighting is like being a rifleman in the army. Almost anyone can be a rifleman, some just become worse or better riflemen than others. Sure, it won't take much training before you can kill someone with your rifle, but as the downside your life is extremely basic, dangerous and plain shitty. Mage is like a jet pilot with long training and high requirements. Though, when you are done with those you can *fly*, attack your enemies with awesome destructive powers from relative safety.. and did I mention, that you can fly?
; Here is an illustrated version of what I am talking about:That's basically it. A warrior has quicker start with gaining skill, that is eventually evened out by the fact that the monsters he has to tackle will get extremely challenging (and you need to kill a lot of them). The solution for that is of course group-fighting, but that would work for a mage as well (namely in regards to lack of money). It's safe to say that with 'casual playing', it's still extremely slow to become powerful as warrior. That's not to even mention that you need to *target* someone while training fighting skills (and doing that, you risk dying always) and often times that means you have to go a specific place to tackle the NPCs. Additonally fighters are dependant on merchants/craftsmen/cooks for their equipment.
Mages have initially a low yield and will take quite some time to reach the comparable lethality of a warrior who started at the same time (simply because gaining the runes takes a lot of time). However, after certain point he will completely surpass anything the warrior can do when it comes to killing. Besides, as far as I know (
) every field is just as good for the mage when it comes to training. Thus a mage doesn't have to risk his life to train the skills (which justifies the requirement for mana-regain) and just needs to do that to gain money (just for the mana potions). This is actually pretty well balanced in my opinion. A lot of work for the enormous payoff in the end. Now, before some of you start screaming. Are the high end warriors extremely hard to take down? Yes. Can warriors take down mages of matching or exceeding skill? Yes.
However, magic is *the* killer in the game. A high end mage is extremely difficult to take down, if not impossible for warriors only (paralyze + flame, 'nuff said). Magic is simply versatile to such degree which fighting cannot ever hope to match. You use it for killing, fleeing or changing the battlefield or throwing your opponents around. If you want to make it easier to access, faster to learn, then its aggregate/comperative strenght will have to be decreased correspondingly. I'm fine with that, if the mage players want it. However, just making it easier to learn, making mages independant of others or making beginner-mages stronger would disturb the balance of the game. If someone has the patience to play a mage to the point where he is Archmage-level, I guess some of the power is well deserved. Nevertheless, the game doesn't need too many of such characters running around.
By the way, as Jaren said: "Mage players should only talk about magic" is complete bollocks. That attitude already gave us one magic-system which functions in less than optimal manner. This isn't some ingame magic guild, and some people around here ought to get it inside their skulls. The character you play only affects your ability to contribute when it comes to very small details; the rest is dependant on what is inside the person's head. Just because you happen to play a mage, it doesn't automatically mean that you'd somehow be an useful, contributing member when discussing about the topic.
Besides, I would say as my personal opinion that magic in the end is a lot cooler than fighting, simply because of the neat things you can do with it. Fighting is like being a rifleman in the army. Almost anyone can be a rifleman, some just become worse or better riflemen than others. Sure, it won't take much training before you can kill someone with your rifle, but as the downside your life is extremely basic, dangerous and plain shitty. Mage is like a jet pilot with long training and high requirements. Though, when you are done with those you can *fly*, attack your enemies with awesome destructive powers from relative safety.. and did I mention, that you can fly?
Last edited by Mr. Cromwell on Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wow. All I can say is "True dat!"
I mean, the only thing warriors can get that does CLOSE to what magic can do I suppose is a magic weapon, and even those there are only a certain few that will actually a) HIT with the specials often enough to cause some real damage b) DO that kind of damage with the special.
These weapons, of course, don't come easy, only some monsters have VERY (say 1%) low chances of dropping these weapons, or by doing high end treasure maps.
I mean, the only thing warriors can get that does CLOSE to what magic can do I suppose is a magic weapon, and even those there are only a certain few that will actually a) HIT with the specials often enough to cause some real damage b) DO that kind of damage with the special.
These weapons, of course, don't come easy, only some monsters have VERY (say 1%) low chances of dropping these weapons, or by doing high end treasure maps.
Dearest Mr Cromwell:
You forgot that magic has 5 skills, not 1 which do not increase at the same tyme. Removing the obsolete ones, you have 3 skills to play around with.
It would be bad of you to assume that ALL mages become battle-mages, and concentrate their efforts SOLEY on PKing other people. Some mages train to heal, or to summon and teleport ect...
So I don't know upon which data you made that graph on, but you are assuming many different things.
Given the same time, you can either have a mage who can blow your head off with explosions, and can't heal himself well, a mage who can heal himself like mad but can hardly hurt you, or a mage that can summon things but once you get down to the brass tacks he's useless. Or any combination of above....
You forgot that magic has 5 skills, not 1 which do not increase at the same tyme. Removing the obsolete ones, you have 3 skills to play around with.
It would be bad of you to assume that ALL mages become battle-mages, and concentrate their efforts SOLEY on PKing other people. Some mages train to heal, or to summon and teleport ect...
So I don't know upon which data you made that graph on, but you are assuming many different things.
Given the same time, you can either have a mage who can blow your head off with explosions, and can't heal himself well, a mage who can heal himself like mad but can hardly hurt you, or a mage that can summon things but once you get down to the brass tacks he's useless. Or any combination of above....
All this complaining about how mages are too strong, how their not strong enough, how then need to be altered and whatnot... you are all forgetting the big picture here. Which is of course archery. xD
Mages have the chance to wait for their bar to raise even without a potion right? Well archers are paying per attack they do.
Stop complaining
Mages have the chance to wait for their bar to raise even without a potion right? Well archers are paying per attack they do.
Stop complaining