Fighting system proposal

[Gro'bul]

Since basically 2 swords dominates any other weapons in terms of power, I think this needs to be adressed. Practically every other weapons system is useless compared. I got a few ideas that hopefully makes other weapons a bit more fun to be played, which mostly require only weapon stat changes.

1.Every other weapon except 1h swords,mace, and daggers are too slow. Since many weapons have little to no defense, the time that would spent spent on defending with this weapon is negligable (e.g.morning star), and should be sped up. (Using 1 as base factor for adjustment)

1a.Single handed swords-offers a balance of 1speed,1parry,1power
1b.Single handed axes - chaos weapons, .75speed, .25 parry, 1.5power.
1c.Single handed concussion-shield combo, .75speed, 0-.25parry, 2 power
1d.Shield-3+parry
1e.Dual wield 150% of total weapon stats.

2.Two handed weapons- war hammer, bastard sword, and zweihander are all very powerful weapons! With a good blow from a trained man, one shot from these can kill an armored opponant. Now we play a game, so fine. I would recommend the following:

2a.Zweihander- .75speed, 1.25parry, 4power

2b.Bastard sword-1speed,1.75parry,2.5power

2c.War hammers- No non-magical weapon should match this in sheer damage. Speed seems alright, a landed blow from this should be dangerous. .5speed,1parry,9power

2d.Two handed axes- .5speed, 1.25parry,6.5power
2e. Staves-1.5 speed, 2.5 parry, 1power

3.Conc armor =Should rely on armor flexibility stat, a more rigid armor has higher chances of deflection, and blocks blunt trauma considerably. Heavier armor is going to lessen the chances of defense against any slower mass weapons.

4.Ranged and puncture weapons- Should almost completely rely on critical hits for kills, highly increased critical hit likelihood.
4a.short bows-1.5 speed, 0parry, 1 power, x2 power on crit
4b.long bows-1 speed, 0parry, 2 power, x2 power on crit
4c.crossbow-.5 speed, 0 parry, 5 power, x2 power on crit
4d.daggers-2 speed, .5 parry, .5 power, x3 power on crit
4e.rapier-1speed, .75 parry, 1 power, x3power on crit

Clearly adjustments per weapon, and testing would be necessary. I used mainly time x power = damage

[Llama]

1.Every other weapon except 1h swords,mace, and daggers are too slow

Maces are slower then swords actually, maces are irritaningly slow.
-

Otherwise I like the proposal.

[Nitram]

Currently the effekt of the skill is different for every weapon kind.
While single handed weapons are nicely useable from the very beginning
on, two handed swords or dual weapons need a high skill to become
useable.

I fear that change will in general just shift the main used weapons from dual weapons to two handed weapons. And everyone will use two handed
weapons at the end.

Is this really the target?

Nitram

[AlexRose]

And if two handed weapons = the best then people would be more obliged to cheat the system. i.e. trap a monster somewhere and attack it from a distance with a waraxe; which would, in fact, be the most damage possible anyway.

[Miklorius]

Currently the effekt of the skill is different for every weapon kind.
While single handed weapons are nicely useable from the very beginning
on, two handed swords or dual weapons need a high skill to become
useable.

So, is it true that two swords in the hands of a more skilled fighter will clearly overcome any other weapons?

And is different armor important for fighting with particular weapons (so some weapons need more moveability ergo lighter armor)?

[Nitram]

So, is it true that two swords in the hands of a more skilled fighter will clearly overcome any other weapons?

No thats not true. The sword and shield compo is as powerful as two swords are. But two swords in the hands of a newbie fighter are useless.

[Miklorius]

But concussion weapons (two-handed staffs or mace plus shield) are not that strong, aren't they?

[Nitram]

They are. They just need a different set of attributes.

[nmaguire]

So, is it true that two swords in the hands of a more skilled fighter will clearly overcome any other weapons?

You can beat people with higher skill and better armour than you if you use 1 sword and shield, and they use 2 swords

[Richard Cypher]

So, is it true that two swords in the hands of a more skilled fighter will clearly overcome any other weapons?

You can beat people with higher skill and better armour than you if you use 1 sword and shield, and they use 2 swords

/signed

[Gro'bul]

Currently the effekt of the skill is different for every weapon kind.
While single handed weapons are nicely useable from the very beginning
on, two handed swords or dual weapons need a high skill to become
useable.

I fear that change will in general just shift the main used weapons from dual weapons to two handed weapons. And everyone will use two handed
weapons at the end.

Is this really the target?

Nitram

I don't think people can take that many hits from harder npc's like demon skeletons, since they are getting 4x more parry from a sword and shield, and look at how many times you miss hitting those things! Sorry but from my experience, anything but 2 swords or 1 sword 1 shield combo is painfully useless currently, I think alot of people would agree.

[Lrmy]

Currently the effekt of the skill is different for every weapon kind.
While single handed weapons are nicely useable from the very beginning
on, two handed swords or dual weapons need a high skill to become
useable.

I fear that change will in general just shift the main used weapons from dual weapons to two handed weapons. And everyone will use two handed
weapons at the end.

Is this really the target?

Nitram

I don't think people can take that many hits from harder npc's like demon skeletons, since they are getting 4x more parry from a sword and shield, and look at how many times you miss hitting those things! Sorry but from my experience, anything but 2 swords or 1 sword 1 shield combo is painfully useless currently, I think alot of people would agree.

Daggers IMO are better than swords at high levels. Staves are great at a high skill. As are two-handers. I do think maces and morning stars are a tad bit slow. Different stats will make you better with different weapons.

[Gro'bul]

Where is this thing with stats posted? Or at a certain level do you get this? How are people supposed to know this stuff?

[Llama]

Where is this thing with stats posted? Or at a certain level do you get this? How are people supposed to know this stuff?

I don't know, but it seems a bit obvious that a high strenght fighter would be able to fight well with concussion, while an agile one with daggers..

I'm not sure if it is REALLY the case IG, and it'll be nyce if someone clarifies it.

[Gro'bul]

It seems a bit obvious that a person with a 6 foot sword or axe is easily able to kill someone with daggers in no time meeting head on, such is not the case however.

[Arameh]

Fighting system was never balanced and never will be, there always is a combo that is stronger and everyone uses it (I don't think stats really do matter if you use concussion or puncture, wether high strenght makes more damages and agility makes more speed, it works for any weapons).

[Lrmy]

Where is this thing with stats posted?

Nowhere

Or at a certain level do you get this?

No

How are people supposed to know this stuff?

They aren't.

I just tested a ton of crap for a long time.

[Gro'bul]

If people don't know how anything works without months of testing to be confident enough in knowlage to invest time in a char, how can you expect them to play this game Nitram?

[Juliana D'cheyne]

I have had some fun just testing things out. Once got in a duel with both using poisoned daggers, have tried poison serinjah, quite a few different weapons and shields.

[Miklorius]

Yeah, it is a bit sad that the fighting system is so non-transparent.
And you do not know then changes behind the curtain are made.

For real good testing with valid results, you need absolutely equal circumstances.

[Nitram]

Is there anything transparent in Illarion?
Would it be good if there is that much transparency?

Its not the problem to give you informations about the different systems.
But do you really want them? You should see what you get and what you
loose.

You get the knowledge how everything works. You know how you have
to set up your characters to get strong and mighty. But everyone will
know this then. And everyone will set up characters who have perfect
attributes.

Is it that what you want? The fighting system is completly logicial. It was
said a few times in that topic how it works and it was absolutly correkt.
Grobby asks how you should know this. Take Lrmy. He tested it. Why
don't you just ask his fighter character. Or the character of Juliana?
Is it that difficult to do this?

And Miklorius. The reason that you realize no changes at the fighting
system is that there are no changes.

Nitram

[Miklorius]

No, I guess we want no statistics etc. And my comment about changes means that you cannot be shure that maybe there were changes in the past and everything is different now.

A problem is that everybody can come up with it's own logic.
Person 1: "Well, IMO weapon A should be faster than B if I am wearing C"
Person 2: "BS! Weapn A ist maybe faster, but obviously not stronger than B, because you are wearin armor C".

I remember that I was testing weapons on Trolls a few month ago and the results were not like I expected (ergo: not logic for ME).

[Nitram]

A problem is that everybody can come up with it's own logic.

Thats a problem? O.o

[Gro'bul]

Well I set my char's attributes trusting the old "classes" post but, thats been since taken down. If I knew generally what my char would be best at , I could make a good decision. I don't think its a good idea to go IG and ask a char "what attributes do sword fighters need?"

[Lrmy]

Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and a dash in intelligence....

[Llama]

*cough agility cough*

[Taeryon Silverlight]

*grunt yubba but yoos need perception also grunt*

[Lrmy]

Err...Hadrian...yes...Taeryon...not really

[abcfantasy]

You need perception! :O

[Retlak]

You DON'T need perception for sword fighting.

<- also a cheeky bastard who tests everything.