NPC Magic Teacher

[Keikan Hiru]

Just like the topic title says, I'm thinking of creating a NPC that teaches some easy runes.

Since I am not that deep into Illarion-Magic I want to give everyone the opportunity to have a say in this.

What runes can/should be teached?
What is the price/quest that is needed to be fullfilled?

Stay with your proposals on a reasonable level.
I'll pick the best one and make it happen.

[Skaalib Drurr]

Perhaps all of the 'level one' runes taught by the magic academy?

Some monetary cost, others trivial things such as leather, thread, logs, ore. Some should be specific things such as, an excellent green cloak, for example.

[Nikolaus]

But it is very important that only mage characters are able to get these runes.

First grade runes are: ra, hept, pen, mes, orl, cun, sav, solh, fhen, kah, lhor

[Nitram]

Someone without mage attributes can't use any rune anyway

[ogerawa]

level 1 runes: RA, HEPT, PEN, MES, ORL, CUN, SAV, SOLH, KAH
level 2 runes: KEL, TAH, YEG, JUS, SIH, ANTH

I didn't include LHOR (illusion) for level 1, cause i think it would only cause troubles and pranks. Well.... it would be too many of them since it will be public.

And FHEN is not included, cause... it might support stealing with magic... i think ^.^

Without further runes, this list of runes won't hurt people that much. But with these runes, mages can train their basic and can help as supports.

With this list people would be able to:
- Cast basic offensive spells
- Small and greater healing
- Remove poison (antidote)
- Feed themselves (food)
- Extinguish fire
- Cancel out flames, iceflames and poison clouds

i think that's all...

[Nikolaus]

My idea would be, that you have to solve easy Quests for level 1 runes.

Difficult Quests for level 2 runes (Mabey as difficult as the Irundar Quest) and that you can get level 3 runes only from teachers,
but then the teaching room should be removed.

[pharse]

Actually I think it is a good idea. Thus the few remaining active mage teachers can spare some time.

But I think lvl 1 runes are enough and excluding illusion makes sense. Perhaps these NPCs could also test the apprentice's knowledge. One has to go into a dungeon, at the end there is a static book one has to read so 1. one can answer the NPC's question and 2. new knowledge "flows through" one's body (=one has to physically go there and read the book).

Would be great if there were some riddles or whatever one can solve by using the already received runes.

[Asesino]

I would prefer if the runes given were some of less importance... to lighten the burden on the magic teachers and fasten the progress of students.
For example FHEN which is at the moment not really powerful, but might be wanted by a student. QWAN on the opposite should be given by a magic teacher. KEL aswell... I would want it as a help for amgic teachers not as a alternative. and I say this not because I absolutely adore being a magic teacher but because a magic teacher normally does more than give runes. and as soon as runes are achievable through engine actions like paying something or doing a quest, it will go a little bit down.
just my 2 cents to this.

[Richard Cypher]

level 1 runes: RA, HEPT, PEN, MES, ORL, CUN, SAV, SOLH, KAH
level 2 runes: KEL, TAH, YEG, JUS, SIH, ANTH

I didn't include LHOR (illusion) for level 1, cause i think it would only cause troubles and pranks. Well.... it would be too many of them since it will be public.

And FHEN is not included, cause... it might support stealing with magic... i think ^.^

Without further runes, this list of runes won't hurt people that much. But with these runes, mages can train their basic and can help as supports.

With this list people would be able to:
- Cast basic offensive spells
- Small and greater healing
- Remove poison (antidote)
- Feed themselves (food)
- Extinguish fire
- Cancel out flames, iceflames and poison clouds

i think that's all...

What about teleportation, mages need to teleport.

[AlexRose]

... What about ancient?

To be honest, I think FHAN should be level 1, and FHEN level 3. FHEN is used in THE PORTAL SPELL; someone with only level 2 runes could cast portals.

I think that level 1 runes should be able to be taught. A quest in the academy. But not something ridiculously easy.

And @Oger: Oh yes, causing havoc with LHOR; they won't think of causing havoc with KEL at all will they?

Oh and you're completely wrong with your list.
level 1: ra, hept, pen, mes, orl, cun, sav, solh, fhen, kah, lhor
level 2: kel, tah, taur, ura, ira, yeg, jus, sih, anth, sul

If people plan to steal with magic, so be it by the way. They will most likely get owned for doing it. The spell is there for a reason, it shouldn't be removed because it might be abused, or kel ra should go too.

With this you could do this:
Fireball, iceball, Heal, Heal hunger, Illusion, Remove flames/poison/walls/ice flames, teleport, summon nice creatures & skeletons (neither of which can attack), heal greatly, summon illusion poison clouds, flames or ice flames, open doors, poison ball.

I don't like this. A. gives too much power, B. with one rune would open up flames, iceflames, powerful fireballs, powerful iceballs, poison clouds, great food restoring (not a problem), paralysis, wall summoning etc.

Not good. 1st level runes fine. Second level runes, no. Maybe SOME second levels but not all.

And yes, I think that fhen should be level 3.

That is all.

[Nikolaus]

Stay with your proposals on a reasonable level.

I think the Npc`s should only teach level one runes.

[Skaalib Drurr]

The quests should be lengthy and inane in my opinion. So they do several goto/gather or whatever quests, all easy, before a rune is given. I wouldn't even be too bothered if the same three quests was used over and over again.

[ogerawa]

@alex: Please... don't make assumptions again and again... It's troublesome to remind you again and again

The list that i posted above, was what i THINK should be taught by NPC. It's what Keikan asked for, if only you read what's the thread about... *sighs*

LHOR and KEL. KEL would cause a bit damage and that's all. Some lags if the massive casting is happening, but it would stop as soon as they stop casting. As for LHOR, with the list i posted earlier it's possible to make flame illusions which stays for a few minutes. If people casting in the same area a lot, the lag would be bad and will last for quite long unless someone do something to the flames (eventhough it's not hard). LHOR is... basically rather useless except for creating unwanted stuff IMO.

I agree with Asesino regarding KEL. It should be taught by teachers, but currently the number of teachers seems to decrease again. I'm not sure if there are anyone that still actively teaching, enlighten me if anyone know whether there are still active teachers. I know several that are still around (in forum at least), but they doesn't seems to be teaching... I hope i'm wrong on this part.

[HolyKnight]

Learning ancient is my big question. Is there a way to limit the spreading of the language to only mage or warlock characters? IMO if other characters IG knew ancient it would lose some of its lore. It is suppose to be the words the gods used to create Gobaith..... (at least that is how Sam RP it) Also I don't see an issue with the NPC teaching LHOR, sure to begin with you would have people running around saying LHOR RA all the time but it would settle down eventually. Personally my character has been waiting since December for a teacher and even with perfect ancient and quite a bit of arcane knowledge he still cant cast a spell. So obviously I like this idea. If that makes me bias so be it. Been waiting for something like this for a while.

[Kaila Galathil Travinus]

I am sure there are going to be as many opinions on what is taught as there are chars, I think the general consensus is this is a great idea though. I would like to bring up a couple of points, being someone who usually does poorly on quests, I hope they aren't too hard. Also, my mage char is so bad at any crafting (and mainly RP's only), that she hasn't copper to buy much, nor the ability to make anything well so I hope this isn't much of a determining factor either.

My idea...just an opinion only:

Level 1 runes:
The goal of the game concentrates on mage chars along with druid chars, being fair RPers. In that case, it seems to me that the first lessons, and subsequently first runes (to be able to cast one spell ) should be by the mage teachers only. The same way as now...first learning ancient. After that, the quests can encompass any of the other Level 1 runes.

Level 2 runes:
Again I think after a certain number of level 1 runes obtained...... perhaps enough to do three spells. The student goes back to the teacher and obtains the first of the level 2 runes (for one spell). At that time, can go on other quests for more of these. It might be nice at this time if the quests involved the use of some of the level one runes and the first of the level two so the apprentice can practice them.

Level 3 runes:
I think again, the mage apprentice goes back to the teacher and gets level 3 runes, enough for one spell (at this time, possibly the teacher could also discuss more level three runes which the apprentice can work to get from a quest too)
With this system, every other spell obtained, the student goes back to the teacher.

As far as the mechanics of it.... when the student has accomplished one of the goals, they could send a dove to the teacher. The teacher can then schedule the class at their convenience ...waiting for the other students to finish etc.

Teaching rune:

Could be accomplished if the char wants to teach by:

1. Helping to teach the initial classes for the Level 1, and possibly level two depending on the teacher's discretion
2. The same requirements as are in place now.

[AlexRose]

@alex: Please... don't make assumptions again and again... It's troublesome to remind you again and again

The list that i posted above, was what i THINK should be taught by NPC.

How come you wrote why you eliminated SOME runes and not the others then?

LHOR and KEL. KEL would cause a bit damage and that's all.

Yes, but LHOR on the other hand would cause MASSES!!!

Some lags if the massive casting is happening, but it would stop as soon as they stop casting.

Except that it takes a ridiculous amount of mana and you can cast about 3 to a bar with no items or good skill.

[anc]As for LHOR, with the list i posted earlier it's possible to make flame illusions which stays for a few minutes.[/anc]
So why include ANTH? The only other use it has there would be closing doors. ANTH isn't needed to be taught.

[anc]If people casting in the same area a lot, the lag would be bad and will last for quite long unless someone do something to the flames (eventhough it's not hard). LHOR is... basically rather useless except for creating unwanted stuff IMO.[/quote]

Umm... really not. You've obviously never seen someone use a DUN SAV lhor spell. Flames can fill the screen and cause no lag whatsoever.

I honestly see no reason to teach level 2 runes.



Some stuff too:

The NPC that gives the runes should only speak ancient. This way, if you couldn't speak ancient properly then you couldn't learn anything, as it meant to be. This means the owner of the rune will have at least some rp knowledge if they've been given a book on ancient.

How to get the teaching rune is fine now.

Quests SHOULD be hard and require much intelligence. Riddles and the like. If they could be made really difficult that'd be great. Or they could do it like this:

RA is given by giving a fire elemental. e.g. go to dragon cave. HEPT is given by finding some sort of plant that can only be found in the snowy area. LHOR requires blessed water of Irundar etc. etc.

Either that or a walkabout answer riddles quest would be good.

[ogerawa]

@alex: Please... don't make assumptions again and again... It's troublesome to remind you again and again

The list that i posted above, was what i THINK should be taught by NPC.

How come you wrote why you eliminated SOME runes and not the others then?

cause... the rest are level 2 runes, which is somewhat should be obvious, are powerful and not good if too many people have it without proper training from a teacher. The rune list is made... so mages would have basic spells.

As for DUN SAV LHOR... i think i was with avalyon quite long while training... and saw the effect of those illusions that make someone have to relog again and again cause she was kicked...

Before you go any further about my list... well stop it. If they think it's a bad list, they won't use it... it's as simple as that and i'm tired argueing almost every idea i had with you... and only you... which is pointless and useless.

[AlexRose]

Yes. All the 500000000 ideas you've had.

(Count on my tally: 1 . This doesn't count as an idea, this is what you'd like in someone else's idea)

There is no reason why LHOR RA ANTH DUN SAV should lag people, I've got screenshots of people filling the screen with them and it didn't get even a tiny bit laggy. Did I mention my specs are absolutely awful and I yet I still run illa on the best quality options you can have? That spell should not lag ANYONE. And think how long it would take casting those for ages and ages and ages to get it to the point where it could lag someone. Too long.

And regardless, as I said, the problem is not LHOR, the problem is ANTH. There is no point learning ANTH from the teacher, let alone any level 2 runes.

[Lance Thunnigan]

I think level 1 runes should be able to be sold.
Level 2 and higher you must complete quests to obtain.

[Keikan Hiru]

None of the replies here so far were useful.

I have stated two simple questions, all of you failed to answer them.

[Lord Arcia]

Basic runes should be enough. A difficult quest, but not uber hard, should be placed there. A thinking quest. Fit for a mage. Nothing that requires a butt load of powergaming certain skills'n stuff.

[Keikan Hiru]

What is this quest you talk about?

[Cliu Beothach]

What runes can/should be teached?
All, I don't really care or mind.

What is the price/quest that is needed to be fullfilled?
Either pure quest, or a choice between the two. Of course, the higher level runes should have harder quests/cost more. Certain quests cannot be completely by yourself.

Simple ones can be riddles like in the guardians, but higher levels could possibly be exploration are solving a larger problem that takes more time then just stating the answer.

[pharse]

What runes can/should be teached?
MES, PEN, RA, HEPT, CUN, SAV, TA, ORL, KA
-With these runes one can cast standard magic spells but cannot harm anyone (at least the illa wiki says so )

What is the price/quest that is needed to be fullfilled?
NEVER just a "go to A, get B, go to C, deliver B and get D, bring me D"-type of quest and I think no runes should be sold.

You can get the runes only in a specific order because you have to use the already received runes to solve the quest. Exception: first two runes.
I have some ideas for these quest but I don´t want to publish it here

I will write something in the internal forum tomorrow/today, if desired.

[Djironnyma]

What runes can/should be teached?
What is the price/quest that is needed to be fullfilled?

1) no runes
2) see 1)

I remember the times were we had NPC's witch teach runes, doesn't like it at all. No NPC need roleplay, and getting runes without any roleplay is a terrible thought.

[Enwell van Illdoran]

a big fat /signed to that!

[pharse]

Does the current system work properly?
No.

Proposals to change this by Keikan: 1

Proposals to change this by Dji & Enwell: 0

[Jupiter]

Magie ist sagen wir mal mächtiger als alles andere.
Darum sollte, vor allem die Magie in den stärksten Formen, sehr selten sein.

Translation: Magic is more powerful then everything else. That's why magic should very rare, especially in its strongest form.

Nitram said this in an other Topic. And I agree with him.
But I think magic should be rare in general, thats why I think level one runes should'nt be taught.
I'm afraid after a few weeks we will have more magicians then carpenter.

[Llama]

Magic is too overpowered (from what I saw of William) to be given a freehold like this.

Even IF by some miracle the quests to get the runes are roleplayed, we'll have a lot of overpowered mages eating up fighters who have trained/powergamed for ages...

Added: And toning down the power of magic wouldn't be fair to those who have rped it and spend half a year for a teacher...

[Keikan Hiru]

An example of a useful post:

Rune X requires the character to do A and B.
Rune Y requires the character to do C, D and E.
Rune Z requires the character to do F.

What A, B, C, D, E and F are is up to your imagination, I'll tell you if its within my abilites to do it.

Answers like "he needs to do a quest", are no answers at all. Save your and most of all my time before submitting such a post.

I've asked two very, very simple questions:
Which runes for what price/task?
Don't waste another day by bickering each other what rune a "level 1" rune is and which not.