killing chars AND players

[Korm Kormsen]

You hear: I have naught but what I was given at the start of the game
S:You hear: HELP ME PLEASE!!!

this my char heard yesterday.
trying to find the char in peril, i seemingly took the wrong direction.

what do you think, how big will be the motivation of that new player, to play on?

might be, one of our - oh so fashionable - outlaws not only robbed some peanuts, but chased off a new player.

everyday we get one or two more outlaws.
the forces of order can cloud them, put them in jail for a day or so, but in reality they can do nothing against this flood of evildoers.

even, if they give one or two RP sentences, before Ctrl-clicking their victims, in my eyes they are just average "hack'n slayers".

my point is NOT, to ask, to forbid them.
my point is, to adjust the punishments for those chars.

we are playing in a middleage setting. (with some fantasy thrown in)
in the middleages even petty thieves got branded as thieves, or got their hands or fingers cut off.
kidnapper and robbers got hanged, decapitated, quartered, impaled or similar.
a once captured outlaw was never ever heard robbing again.
they were shown in public execution.

i think, we need the possibility, that deathsentences for outlaws will be made permanent by the staff. (an executioner-GM...?)

if the current trend will go on, every nutcase of a player will decide, that it is easier to rob crafters, than to learn crafting.

the encounters, my chars had in the last week, point very clearly in one direction:
no more planting or crafting, but training to fight. - untill my chars are trained enough, to go crafting without being everybodies prey.

should that be the Illarion of the future?
that one either gets demotivated to play, or gets motivated to become a powergamer as well?

korm

[pharse]

I think the problem is that you have to train a lot with a char in order to be an equal opponent for e.g. the townguards. So you spend a lot of time with your char therefore you don´t want to let him die.

Probably there would be some players, including me, who would play chars with better starter skills with the only purpose to bug the townguards AND also to be catched and sentenced. Some kind of temporal questchars.

But under the current circumstances...

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

I like very much the idea of public executions and such, but don't expect evil chars to not do the same with good chars that they have captured hehe

[pharse]

yes, that´s the other option: Both sides are open for such things. Perhaps there should be a time maximum chars can last, then they have to die

Would be much fun I think^^

[Siltaris]

I like the idea of public executions and I know that there are some who would like to see something like that, too.

Indeed, there is the danger of killing/clouding other chars now one after the other - this is definetely NOT what is desired.
The only solution to kill players ig for a certain time or to make them unable to play due to execution and such is by having the political power to decide so - a kind of council consisting of some of the politicians of larger towns of Gobiath who all together have the power to decide so.
This would support politics and their power and maybe will bring people more to respect politics.

My opinion, if there will ever be the real need to make some chars pause for a while.

[Mr. Cromwell]

I like the idea of public executions and I know that there are some who would like to see something like that, too.

Indeed, there is the danger of killing/clouding other chars now one after the other - this is definetely NOT what is desired.
The only solution to kill players ig for a certain time or to make them unable to play due to execution and such is by having the political power to decide so - a kind of council consisting of some of the politicians of larger towns of Gobiath who all together have the power to decide so.
This would support politics and their power and maybe will bring people more to respect politics.

My opinion, if there will ever be the real need to make
some chars pause for a while.

I vehemently disagree with the proposed system. What Illarion needs is localized politics and multiple factions with struggle, competition and conflicts. Please do not federalize the sitiuation anymore than it already is. So no "grand council of politicians who think the same and want keep the status quo forever by executing everyone who opposes them, because the opposition will always lack the technical execution methods of the powers that be", thank you very much.

The current political sitiuation is quite boring and inbred as it is, at least throught the eyes of a bystander. All the conflict causing characters either have been banned or have quit. The grim barbarians of the north and orc clans are all huggy-huggy, there is none trying to usurp the power anywhere.. and if someone was, the grand coalition of everyone and their grandmother would promptly jump in crush them.

So while the political situation is unsatisfactory for everyone, I believe it is actually due to the smothering nature of the current sitiuation where everyone is in bed with everyone, thus making competition hard or impossible. Call it a massive cartel if you want.

[Ascius]

Furthermore, we sometimes had some of the greatest idiots ever in ruling positions, which makes it difficult to give the power over life and death to them.

We'll have to live with these 'outlaws'. That's the difference between game and real life.

[pharse]

I think the idea was that there should be a council consisting of the leaders of the main towns/guilds/factions/whatever to discuss OOC and prepare more interesting conflicts.

That´s my interpretation at least. I have already suggested it, somewhere in the depth of this forum

[Fooser]

Politics is boring because the population is being brainwashed by tyrants!

[Nalzaxx]

there is none trying to usurp the power anywhere

Oh don't be so sure. I always have some evil plot or scheme going on.

[Dariya]

I guess korm wasnt talking about political ingame stuff, but mainly about thief/bandit chars chasing down and robbing new players

what do you think, how big will be the motivation of that new player, to play on?

my point is NOT, to ask, to forbid them.
my point is, to adjust the punishments for those chars.

i think, we need the possibility, that deathsentences for outlaws will be made permanent by the staff. (an executioner-GM...?)

so stop already planning your political future ingame

and I do agree with korm, situations like those definitely are frustrating for new players, who just dropped in, try to get along somehow ... and get robbed, maybe clouded and start from zero

those players playing thief/bandit chars should consider this, swallow their pride, say something like "Poor guy, even got less then me, alright, I'll leave you alone for now ..." or whatever ... this would be quite fair in my eyes

[Kurga Wolfbane]

Hmm...interesting topic.

With RP of Kurga, she has a strict set of 'honor' she abides by. One being that it is dishonorable to attack defensless newbies. She may cloud them if they insult or attack her, but after clouding it ends and she 'pretends' they have learned a lesson. (Keeps away from multi-killings).

I also mention to others that not all Orcs have honor, especially new ones, until they have been around other Orcs. I try to guide behavior of new players if I can. Orcs are difficult to RP.

And no, were not 'huggy huggy'. Whoever said that is an idiot. Like any warrior race, they wait, build and recruit. Wars and conflicts are fought for a reason and with proper preparation and allies. Anyone who thinks otherwise wouldn't last long.

Perhaps it's because most players want peace, that there aren't more conflict? Who am I to be the sole 'villian' to get stomped by the rest of Gobiath? No thanks. That would be stupid. I RP Kurga with a code of Honor, with reasons for her fights good or bad, but she's not stupid.

I think the towns need to hire, recuit and train more guards who could actually 'patrol' the streets. Set up a schedule for each guard to promise to be on 'patrol'. That failing, get allies to help, like the Knights. Point is, not every character needs to be a fighter, if there are fighters loyal enough to look out for them. This game should allow a person never to pick up a sword if thats what they want. And only the 'powers' of the towns and guilds can organize that.

[Wyrda]

I think the idea of perma-death would greatly benefit the game. I have read somewhere an idea that before they are killed, they can be knocked unconscious and another ctrl click will do the deed. This would definately stop outlaws from killing for fear of being killed or executed.

[Llama]

the branding is a good idea. and with it a penalty to constitution...

[The Returner]

Just turn on perma death, one char limit, with a six month re-apply period

first there will be chaos

Then there will be a whole lot less fighting except for the truely brave


When death means something, people will eventually listen

[Nalzaxx]

Patrolling is deathly boring.

I wouldn't subject anyone to that.

[Kurga Wolfbane]

People RP and waste time after a skill cap anyways? Why not turn that time into patrol time?

[Llama]

Just turn on perma death, one char limit, with a six month re-apply period

first there will be chaos

Then there will be a whole lot less fighting except for the truely brave


When death means something, people will eventually listen

For once.

I agree with turney...

(Oh yeah we also had agreed on Po aurica..

[Kurga Wolfbane]

Just turn on perma death, one char limit, with a six month re-apply period

first there will be chaos

Then there will be a whole lot less fighting except for the truely brave


When death means something, people will eventually listen

Yeah, I've always like this idea too. But after reading 5-6 years of forums about this topic, I don't think the devs will ever implement it.

[Fooser]

I think you miss the point that the devs want more players, not to have perma death and frustrate people. I could be wrong though.

[Athian]

1. Put the newbie location in a new area

2. wait for newbie isle

3. put the newbie location in a place on an area where characters can't ctrl+click

but definatly move it out of the library in any case. Never heard of this happening anywhere but with Trollsbane.

[Calenleia]

but definatly move it out of the library in any case. Never heard of this happening anywhere but with Trollsbane.

That is a very good point... the new ones see at first the -ähm is it a gnom? - the person in the libary, click on it an see: "Angreifen" so they might think, its an enemy....!

Hope you understand my evening thoughs

[Kurga Wolfbane]

1. Put the newbie location in a new area

2. wait for newbie isle

3. put the newbie location in a place on an area where characters can't ctrl+click

but definatly move it out of the library in any case. Never heard of this happening anywhere but with Trollsbane.

Ditto!

[Mr. Cromwell]

And no, were not 'huggy huggy'. Whoever said that is an idiot. Like any warrior race, they wait, build and recruit. Wars and conflicts are fought for a reason and with proper preparation and allies. Anyone who thinks otherwise wouldn't last long.

Thanks for the idiot comment. If you feel compelled to resort to insults, perhaps you should stay out of the discussion. Not only that, but you also failed to grasp what was the actual point of the "huggy-huggy" sentence. Had you not been so childish with your reaction, I would have gladly explained what I ment with the sentence.

[Kurga Wolfbane]

"Yoo welkome"

Your just upset that I caught you trying to insult the Orcs and barbarians who should be causing problems and conflicts (aka=Fun for you to smash!). Don't try to back away now. Your point was well taken. I understood what you meant.

I merely pointed out that the RP of supposed 'conflict-makers' may not be the way you expect, but it is logical from a warrior-society view. They don't cause conflicts for nothing! Newbs do that, and thats what this topic is supposed to be about.

[The Returner]

I think you miss the point that the devs want more players, not to have perma death and frustrate people. I could be wrong though.

Got the nail on the head there foos

but the question the devs need to ask, is at what price do they want the players, because somehow I think the devs want more quality then a bunch of hack'n'slashing tards running around with the rp intelligence of a dead cat

[Mr. Cromwell]

but the question the devs need to ask, is at what price do they want the players, because somehow I think the devs want more quality then a bunch of hack'n'slashing tards running around with the rp intelligence of a dead cat

Besides, nothing at all prevents anyone from killing his own character off at the event of game engine death. However, under no circumstances should this be forced upon other players by average players. My character is mine, and hence I should call the shots regarding to his continued existance or lack of that.

We talked about permadeath earlier, and I unsuprisingly agree with that stance. Besides, permadying would kill of whatever little longevity of society we have IG right now. In terms of character replacement rate, the sitiuation would turn into experience compareble to watching an episode of "the Oz" with 3x speed.

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

How about this:
we make an OOC list with all the active chars, marking them with one of "good/neutral/evil" (maybe each player will declare his own chars). After the list is done, we set a condition for permanent killing.. something like: to perma a char, you'll have to have the votes (agreement) of at least 50% of the opposed allighment and at least 75% votes from opposed+neutral. If the char in question is neutral, then the votes required are at least 75% of the total chars.

Discuss

[Kurga Wolfbane]

One word Ava, "Yuck!"

Too complicated. After all, chars are more than just good/evil/neutral.

They are also Lawful/ unlawful, etc.

I thought we discussed this in an earlier thread?

[Mr. Cromwell]

How about this:
we make an OOC list with all the active chars, marking them with one of "good/neutral/evil" (maybe each player will declare his own chars). After the list is done, we set a condition for permanent killing.. something like: to perma a char, you'll have to have the votes (agreement) of at least 50% of the opposed allighment and at least 75% votes from opposed+neutral. If the char in question is neutral, then the votes required are at least 75% of the total chars.

Discuss

And the PO of the said character would not bear any influence on the results?