Ponderings (yes more of them) about the Magic Academy

Devrah Windslasher ~ · Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:10 pm

I do realize that the topic of magic's re-intoduction has been brought up before, and rather fruitlessly, but there is something that I think really deserves consideration about it.

I think, truly, that some of the people in charge of the Magic Academy are using their positions to gain some concept of power and control over everyone else. Has anyone taken a look at the rules on the board? They are ridiculous. If you ask a question out of turn three times in all your time at the Academy, it is possible that you would never be allowed to learn magic. There are a ridiculous amount of restrictions such as this on students -- it is even required that you attend a certain amount of lessons -- This isn't fair. Most of them are held while I'm at work, and I know I'm not the only one. Obtaining the notes and learning them should be enough. There is a long list of things like this that indicate to me that at least some of the people in charge aren't actually interested in having mages in Illarion - on the contrary, it looks to me more like they want to ensure that they are the only ones that *have* magic.

Just my views.

Japheth · Post by **Japheth** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:29 pm

Obtaining the notes and learning them should be enough.

I agree 100% with this. As it is, none of my characters can ever learn magic, because the lessons are at times when I'm in college.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:30 pm

Oh, and from what I've heard, some of the lessons are pretty ridiculous. Who wants to learn about sheep in a magical academy? What sort of teacher teaches students that lizardmen don't like cake? Or that they are part man, part lizard, hence the name?

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:50 pm

I disagree with Donal, I agree with lady Dev. Even though up until now I could attend most of the lessons, some of us not so lucky people might have trouble attending. As will I from now on, considering school and work. Mayhap there could be some sort of compromise?

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:23 pm

Dónal Mason wrote:What sort of teacher teaches students that lizardmen don't like cake?

Can a GM contact me to discuss current diet plans for my lizard? He doesn't seem to be eating the right things, and I hope it doesnt cause future health problems or racial prejudice changes, plz? K thx

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:27 pm

the information that lizards don't eat cakes is as old as moonsilver, since this information could be found there for the last years. so it is once own fault if he never took time to read moonsilver and inform himself about the race he is playing.

The teacher teaches you everything that is know of the races and creatures. you are playing not just mages, but studied persons. the intelligent society of the world. the keeper of wisdom and knowledge. they should know about everything something.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:29 pm

To elaborate:

Moonsilver wrote:Lizards prefer fresh, raw fish, meat, bread and fruits to eat. They dislike cake and other sweet things.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:29 pm

LoL omg li3k pwnt

Let me guess, all chinese people like pork, all white people like turnips, all black people like chicken (obviously).

Why?

Because I put it on a website years ago. If none of these people took the time to read it and learn how to act, they should go away

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:30 pm

Indeed, you realize that cakes are fruit based and yet Lizards like fruit. Silly moonsilver.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:31 pm

Garett Gwenour wrote:Indeed, you realize that cakes are fruit based and yet Lizards like fruit. Silly moonsilver.

I have to agree with Fooser, and have to disagree with Sam. I have eaten cake which did not contain a single piece of fruit. True CAKE, and not pies.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:32 pm

but the rest of the cake is not fruit, its something lizards don't eat.

And Fooser, your comparison is stupid, sorry.

Moonsilver tells things that ARE true for illarion. its not that moonsilver tells informations which are not true, what stoods there is the background of illarion.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:34 pm

No no, cakes ingame. They are all fruit based, apple, cherry, strawberry. And those fruits are the sweet things in them I believe as anything else is wheat and milk. And those arent sweet.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:37 pm

Actually Shandariel, I DO realise that the stuff about lizards was on Moonsilver. However, it's such a stupid thing for an aspiring mage to learn. Come on, what will be the next lesson? "Halflings are small", probably. Learning some biology of these creatures, now that's an entirely different story.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:38 pm

Moonsilver is complete BS, because the lack of consideration for racial development is stupid. All dwarves are smiths right? They all drink ale right?

You want some realism, there's some realism. Show me a racial profiling that is completely true then?

Sorry, I dont feel like being stapled to a website, I guess Illarion isnt the game for me, or whatever you all tell the bad RPers these days. Cya

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:40 pm

Its not that obviously that lizards can't or don't eat that stuff. not like the heights of a halfling. i am sure even you understand that.

and please use my charactername. i dont want you to use such childish funnames.

illarion is a roleplaying game. roleplaying games have backgrounds. every pen and paper have backgrounds with descriptions of chars which have to be followed. same is with illarion. moonsilver is its background. accept, or, as you said, try something else

King Cobra · Post by **King Cobra** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:41 pm

Steriotyping exists in the real world, I think it adds something to the game world is steriotyping exists in the game world. It doesn't mean it's true (although it has to come from somewhere).

Pocal · Post by **Pocal** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:44 pm

King Cobra wrote:Steriotyping exists in the real world, I think it adds something to the game world is steriotyping exists in the game world. It doesn't mean it's true (although it has to come from somewhere).

Its the fact that Moonsilver is supposed to be waht everyone uses to play their character. Everyone's told "Go to moonsilver to see how (insert race here) should be played)." Its not sterotyping, its railroading you into playing a certain way unless you want to be labelled a bad RPEr, as Fooser alluded to.

Post by **Nitram** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:44 pm

We are not evil monsters, who eat you, if you ask us anythings. If you have such a problem, you can contact us, then we find a solution, and everythings is fine. But such a topic becomes crap in a very short time. You can say it here already.

King Cobra · Post by **King Cobra** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:47 pm

Pocal wrote:
King Cobra wrote:Steriotyping exists in the real world, I think it adds something to the game world is steriotyping exists in the game world. It doesn't mean it's true (although it has to come from somewhere).
Its the fact that Moonsilver is supposed to be waht everyone uses to play their character. Everyone's told "Go to moonsilver to see how (insert race here) should be played)." Its not sterotyping, its railroading you into playing a certain way unless you want to be labelled a bad RPEr, as Fooser alluded to.

Then surely it is more of a guide (maybe for new players?), if you don't wish to follow the character set, don't. This is a very simple method. Ignorant people will label you no matter what, so simply ignore them.

Papoitsi · Post by **Papoitsi** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:55 pm

It is more of a guide, one that is supposed to show you how Illarion's humans, elves, lizards, halflings, and dwarves act. This is to provide a sense of continuity and atmosphere to the game which it would not otherwise have. Some things I think always hold true: elves do not have nobility--no kings and princesses; halflings are short; orcs are greenish; dwarves don't like uncontrolled/non-runic magic. Some things that are inherent to the character: personal likes/dislikes regarding food, magic tolerances, the gods. So it is perfectly reasonable that a lizardman or two likes cake, an elf likes steak, and an orc is a vegetarian.

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:43 am

I think the main reason for some rules of the Academy isn t, that they want to stay the only mages ig forever but to make it quite hard to become a mage.
I remember the "good old times" when you were able to become a master mage in less than 2 days... 3 (maybe 4) runes were needed to pwn every non-mage (exept muten

) In my view this was crap, because magic was the most powerful PvP weapon, but there weren't even half as many difficulties to obtain that skill as for combat skills.
I agree though that the academy exagerated it a bit

but I doubt that their intention was to gain endless ig power forever.

Rules I would like to see rethought about:
- The "you have to attend at least 2 lessons"-thing devrah mentioned for the same reason.

- Only adepts will be taught runes
it takes quite a long time to become an adept, maybe for the reason I mentioned above, but I don't think that novices shouldn't learn anyting on their way there (no powerful spells of course, but at maybe one or two minor spells. Don't know about the new spells but I thouht about orl kah for example...)

-Lesson lenght
I ve only attended one lesson so far (Ancient Language) and it took about an hour, but could have been held in 10 minutes

I don't mind lenght if there is something to do, but the Ancien Language lesson was just boring (I can have that at university all day long and don't want it during my sparetime as well

) Maybe group works or stuff like that could make it a little more interesting.

Devrah Windslasher ~ · Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:57 am

Exactly, the lessons are far too much like real school. I didn't go to the Ancient Language one yesterday just because I didn't feel like going to school on a day off for an hour or so. And now I'm sure I'm 1/3 of the way to never being able to learn magic, because I missed a lesson I signed up for

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:59 am

Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote: illarion is a roleplaying game. roleplaying games have backgrounds. every pen and paper have backgrounds with descriptions of chars which have to be followed. same is with illarion. moonsilver is its background. accept, or, as you said, try something else

That's funny, because I dont see "slut" in the description of elves or Sirani priests, hmm.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:32 am

LOL well if this is the case Garett has missed nearly every lesson except philosophy because I find the lessons boring and not worth my time to be in that when I can have a lot more fun on any other character of mine.

And damn that was a burn Fooser.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:37 am

That's funny, because I dont see "slut" in the description of elves or Sirani priests, hmm.

But there isn't an "are not sluts" too

And Shan is no slut

Maliss · Post by **Maliss** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:29 am

I agree the lessons are a problem; I have given up hope of my character becoming a magician through the academy. Simply as i have limited time of late so even when a lesson falls in a time i can be online its hard choice attend a lesson or rp with a character whose plot needs attention.

Perhaps each level could have a test of sorts and make it hard for all i care, my character has been absorbing and making use of any information i could gain on magic before and during the academy.
We have already been told in no uncertain terms on another thread if we don’t like it deal. I am not even really complaining in truth...
Simply factual i will place my character progression on hold until magic normalizes and use the information on the magic boards to further my rp.

In theory the magic site could have been set up and you had to apply to get access to the information study it and take various tests and then Tyrus or an arch mage would access your knowledge and hand over runes accordingly.
Classes could have been offered at the same time for those who wished the rp of going to school.
As it stands i do feel it calls for me to sacrifice the integrity of my character, learning mediation although dji was very good maliss has been doing it for thousands of years.
The final straw you have to attend X amount of classes and in many classes "perks" like a new language will be handed out.
So if you work or time zone is impossible...don’t worry the 13 year olds with minimal homework will have mages.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:14 am

I am having a very hard time finding the rule where you must attend a certain amount of lessons.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:48 am

A new addition: In order to be able to attend the oral test, when it's testing time in a specific topic (After 5-10 lessons), you need to attend at least 2 lessons of that topic.

***

Neuerung: Um zur mündlichen Prüfung zugelassen zu werden, wenn die Prüfungszeit ist (Nach 5-10 Stunden), müsst ihr mindestens 2 Stunden des Faches besucht haben.

There ya go Cliu. You can look through the notes of 5 lessons or so, but you have to attend atleast 2 lessons (afterwards I think, it is rather vague how it will all work) to become Adept. Considering most of the english classes are in the evening, I am screwed. (And with evening I mean past midnight).

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:16 am

Truely this form of teaching where you must be ingame to sacrifice your life ooc for some benefits ingame is by far asking for to much out of a game we play only for recreational purposes. To play out our roleplaying medival age fantasty, we enjoy doing, but we will not break off engagements, even those made at the spur of the moment to spend an hour to three hours on illarion to learn some benign thing and not have any fun at all, as most classes are dull and the teachers treat everyone like five year olds.
A prime example is of course the Philosophy course inwhich we were taught how to meditate, great, we also learned elves don't sleep we meditate, so why our elves in this class. Not only was the class completely a waste of time, dull, but it tackled nothing interesting at all. I do not think meditation will really be a skill mages can learn and get better at, certainly having them learn how to do so or get a tutor on how to do so would have been a better route; off the top of my head i can imagine a funner course would have been learning philosophy, and not this lame crap where Damien and Dji consider real life philosophies but rather things involving Illarion- Why Moshran and Malachin are so different, why Gobiath is so cursed, wether a monarchy or electorate is a better system, why there is magic in the first place.
Questions that would interest the players and not something the teachers took out of some website they saw.
Another very important point I think is that the classes are for children, it is as if they had to dumb it down for some players who lack common sense and as such we are all suffering from it. Lets see a sheep get blown up with a spell, yes that involves lots of magic. It is as if the players of the teachers love Harry potter so much they are willing to play the same classes they read about and make things ludicrous and eccentric; but what they don't realize is that they are not interesting characters enough to get me to play with them; Ill wait til summer where magic is loose again and learn from Maliss or Jeremy and Marie.

Markous · Post by **Markous** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:28 am

I have ignored public topics in the past, and will do it in the future. If there are any problems, PM or MSN me with some valid points, and I will consider things.

But not this way.

No one of you ever thinks about Nitram and me, who spend hours of hours, wasting our lifetime to script a working magic system, present it to you in a roleplay way, and trying to make a good background.