Fighting System

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:07 pm

To dev. team:

Was the combat system changed from the previous client?

If yes, hear this: and mind you, this is ME telling you. And did you ever heard many nice things from me lately?

NEW COMBAT SYSTEM ROCKS!!!

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I think I may be the first player who had successfully killed a troll solo so far. Martin, if you did this: big props.

Everything matters. Perception, strength, agility, dexterity.
I am very impressed. The game became more about tactics.

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Can jumping speed be increased, like in the old client, please?
I know people been complaining and asking for slow-down of jumping, but please can you still speed it up? See how they react now. Make jumping twice faster please.

Gwynnether · Post by **Gwynnether** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:24 pm

*lmao*

there is no new combat system, hun.
you are too cute.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:34 pm

Can jumping speed be increased, like in the old client, please?
I know people been complaining and asking for slow-down of jumping, but please can you still speed it up? See how they react now. Make jumping twice faster please.

Tell me, Konstantin, how fast can you jump forward in RL? And for how long? Is it really faster or as fast as normal running? I disbeliefe that

martin · Post by **martin** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:03 pm

No changes made so far. But everything matters, that's true.

Martin

Mimblethorp · Post by **Mimblethorp** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:10 pm

Ok, how do you jump? I've played for some time and had never even heard of this ability before.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:44 pm

Hold control, and drag yourself to an adjacent or diagonal square.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:39 pm

Random question:

I got a club from wood gathering, but it shows it is a slashing weapon? Would think it would be a concussion..

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:17 am

Galim wrote: Tell me, Konstantin, how fast can you jump forward in RL? And for how long? Is it really faster or as fast as normal running? I disbeliefe that

Explaining for people with disabilities:

Jumping (leaping) lets me cover a longer distance in a shorter time than a single step.
There is no running in Illarion. Only walking and jumping.
Walking is smooth and slow.
Jumping should be jumpy and fast.
Since we only leap to the neighboring tile, and not over two tiles or three tiles - jumping should be made faster.

Or cancel it at all.

Right now a jump covers as much space as a single step, hence - not useful at all. Just a laggier version of walking. If you keep the same jumping speed - then increase the distance of a leap, say, 2-3 tiles, depending on stats.

Domitrio · Post by **Domitrio** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:24 am

Dependant on your Agi? That sounds like an argueable proposal, and it would give a perk to Agi-rich characters.

Although, on topic, isn't there a new system coming out with the new client later on?

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:35 am

BTW:
The "new client", as you all call it, is not so new.
In fact, only a very few graphics have changed, the IP of the server has changed and you cannot see coordinates anymore.

What you refer to is the new server.

As for agi and walkingspeed: That is a feature that was implemented years ago.

Martin

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:25 am

May I add that most people just use the jumpfunction for roleplay reasons?

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:11 pm

But many others use it in fighting too, right Karmane? Like using a waraxe and than "jumping" back.

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:05 pm

Tha sounds like Alora Ironforge.

I use daggers. But yes, I jump around in fighting. I did it before jumping was slowed down, and that was the bloody main reason I asked.

Will jumping be useful in combat again? Because it's damn logical for a person to use jumping in battle!

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:06 pm

If not a jump, then the "lunge" or stride or whatever it used to be.

IMO, now that the monsters are slowed down (it's possible to escape from them), there's not much point in having the jump function. At best, in combat, it can be used to sucker attack somebody and escape.

But then again, when it was around at full speed, things were pretty fun.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:07 pm

Yes, you jump out of the way. But do you not think that is already calculated into the system somehow? Like a misschance. When the enemy misses, you effectively "jumped" out of the way.
Probably..not certain, never am

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:26 pm

Alora don't have the need to do things like that, she never had the need to do tricks

and yes, jumping and escaping IS in the system. for that dodging is, or what do you think what that means? You should know that, Karmane (now i am speaking of your char, so i hope it is okay <_<) was grandmaster at dodging (something the most other players never reached in many month, such a high doging is really strange <_<)

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:41 pm

Because I found a way to train dodge efficiently over shortest time, which nobody apparently did.

But yes, Alora did use waraxes, and did that quite often, that being one of the reasons to her victories over my char. She did engage me in close combat, but then she jumped away, drank potions, while continuing hitting me.

Another reason was Galim's paralysis spell.

But these are not what I am talking about.

I mean the use of jumping in combat, when you move diagonally, evading spells, and such. Attacks and magic are auto-targetted. You don't have to retarget someone when they move. Only if they hide behind an object.
So, jumping didn't really do anything in terms of avoiding being aimed.

But it did help against non-wand mages, who mitargeted you.
Battles Grant vs. Konstantin were extremely fun.
Konstantin vs. Shukk were also amazing. (I had my ass waraxed there big time). We used jumping to switch positions and move away from hit quickly, using the time to heal up, and trying to corner the enemy between tables, chests, swamps, water tiles. Was real fun.

Also, jumping helps in crossing the huge distances of the map by diagonal movement.

And no, please don't tell me about realism. Realism sucks.
And Illarion is not anything like realism.
I know I don't jump diagonally IRL to cross a forest, but you know, I don't move in only 4 directions either. I move in a straight line from source to destination while being able to turn around full 360 degrees.

Hence, I once again ask for jump speed increase.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:46 pm

You are telling lies there Konstanit. Every time i saw Alora fighting you she just did it in melee, and with doubleaxe. She didn't jump around. And she had no reason to drink potions, in the fights i watched she was not in the need to drink potions, you didn't even hit her hard. and it was you running away and hiding in a shadow. thats the reason i paralized you. because you loved it to run away and hide just a few fields infront of us in a shadow and vanish.

nice, you are arguement with the fun you had with shukk and Grant. Both characters who got already punishments for powergaming and other things. or even a bann like Grant. Yes, you "friends" seem to like it to have a stile of roleplay that attract banns and punishments by GM's <_<

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:51 pm

...when wimps like some unnamed persons whine about them.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:52 pm

"Jumping" is a sideeffect of the ability to push other players characters.
I dare to doubt that it was ever intended as a feature of the combat system or the movement abilties of your character.

Especialy the bypassing of a characters maximal speed by "pushing" him diagonaly is a clear weakness of this.

Thats why I vote for removing this totaly.
Which also helps me from time to time to create some nice barricades on the map without always checking for diagonal "shortcuts".

If you train the way you always trained, you maybe score your 8th skill reduction soon.

Good luck.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:55 pm

Thanks, i am your opinion there Keikan. If you want to make a step back, or away, than simply move, that means walk. no need to "push yourself".

Do an #me like "#me makes a step back to pause" or anything like that and than walk a field back.

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:55 pm

Oh, that's so keikan of you.

Not gonna take a year to become a Grandmaster in one skill. Sorry. I can train and max out 8 UO characters in 4 times that little.

Reduce me, flame me. In fact, why don't you perma-ban my IP?
I mean, I'm horrible.

Hey hey, I saw Alora and Galim PGing too, why don't you ban them.
Oh... wait... the char wipe, thats right. Haa haa.

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:57 pm

But characters in Illarion only move in 4 directions. North east west south. That's a bit... weak, considering the possibilities of interesting barricades.

Why don't you want to consider for diagonal movement? For ease?

I'd take a challenge and design things for 8 directional movement.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:57 pm

Lol, we powergamed? damn, thats the reason why i was never better than master in fighting in the last two years, yes, true, because I powergamed <_<.

Oh, comeone, that was a cheap try *sighs*.

say, how often was YOU grandmaster? after that 8 times of skillreduction?

Yes, a possibility to move not just in 4 directions would be nice, but the pushing function just made it possible for others to misuse it, so, live with the 4 directions

. they are enough and we dont reall need more.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 pm

You two have instant messengers, right? Perhaps you could solve this debate in a space less lock-worthy?

Aegohl

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:04 pm

He he, don't think he would allow me in his msn messenger

. But he don't seem to have msn, and i dont have icq or anything else ^_^

But to the topic. this topic was about fight, in fight there is no need for some "pushing yourself". and for movement into more than 4 directions, well, just to be faster? thats no reason enough to bring it back or, even, programm something that makes it possible to walk into the other directions too

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:13 pm

Aegohl, greatly appreciating your comment. Mr. Galim is gonna have a stroke here soon.
Notice that I don't post without saying something on topic.

I think that jumping IS a worthy thingto bring back, and there is no reason to fear it for some odd strange way. Pushing should be made official as jumping too, because it allows, for instance, poison avoidance.

I mean come on, yes all those things are purely client-based. But they do make the illarion game a LOT MORE FUN. Not just blandly standing in front of each other, hacking away, letting the numbers do the work.

Alora was a freaking maxed out fighter, Galim. I was not. I had intelligence and perception, because I wanted to have my stats reflect my actual character. If you're not a maxed out fighter - use of strategy is necessary in order to defeat stronger characters.

Cancellation of various movement - makes too much favor for warrior class, making the ranger/rogue type outclassed.
It also favors wand-using auto-targetting mages class.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:23 pm

alora was maxed out in strength and constitution, yes, dwarvenlike. but she had poor agility and dexterity and no perception. but damn alot of willpower, like a dwarf, you see?

Now a question, is jumping gone completly or is it just slower than ebfore? because after what you wrote in your first postings I thought it is still there and just slower.

by the way, what do you was wearing while jumping around?

. if jumping comes back, than just with a limit that you can't jump much or at all while wear much of armor and having to many things in your pocket. I want to see YOU jumping around, in metallboots, gloves, a helm, chain or plate and a damn heavy weapon in your hand

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:39 pm

Well, I would use a tiny weapon, like a dagger. And light armor. The thing is, there is no way in Illarion to stick a dagger up somebody's throat and instantly kill them.

Daggers and leather armors are underpowered by heavy gear.
Heavy warrior will always win.

However I do agree. Those things should be considered in weight. They actually are. For a while. The more you carry - the slower you are. That's been around, like, forever.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:44 pm

Not gonna take a year to become a Grandmaster in one skill. Sorry. I can train and max out 8 UO characters in 4 times that little.

UO ≠ Illarion

Notice that I don't post without saying something on topic.

And we love you for it.

Now, ontopic: I think you should not remove the jump function, but certainly not make it faster. As I explained in an earlier post, your agility (that determines your ability to evade certain attacks I suppose (not sure here)) is already calculated in. But you want to use jump so you can use a potion quickly (wow, I am megafast, and grab a potion from belt/bag. drink it in one second, and jump right back in combat). Anyhow, I think the client does a lot for you that you do not realise, based on your stats. (client/server is same in my mind, do not go bugging me about it

).
And, as an argument for the keeping jump/push/whatever function: It helps greatly in my RP, and I'm certain it also does in other's RP.