No chance to get started?

Rikan · Post by **Rikan** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:30 am

Created character, applied for an account, got the acceptance (really quick, I must admit, good work) and tried today to get started... somehow.

Now the problem is, you start with a simple hammer, a shovel, and nothing else. As a self-respecting elf one doesn't want to live off by begging, so I tried to pick up a trade, tailoring, that is.

Although it is said to be easiest to start with it presents me with insurmountable difficulties, such as the need of tools (scissors and a needle) which cost money... which one does not have at the very start.

Another angle would be leatherworking which requires to kill the pigs... And that seems to require a decent weapon instead of the hammer. And that needs money as well, I think.

So is there ANY chance to become self-sufficient without being dependent on the help of others?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:47 am

Rikan wrote:So is there ANY chance to become self-sufficient without being dependent on the help of others?

I think you have the wrong idea, player interaction is encouraged versus self sufficiency. This means you don't need player interaction, which I must say is boring. Self sufficiency is unrealistic anyway. Just as the archer depends on the carpenter for arrows, the carpenter depends on the lumberjack for wood, and the lumberjack depends on the smith for axes, who depends on the miner for coal and ore, the miner depends on the smith for tools. Basically a food chain. Luckily being a jack-of all trades is near impossible now, and if you are it will be hard to say your specialized in any of the crafts you know, versus someone who has mastered one craft and has done it well for a long time, even if you have more technical skill than them.

Rikan · Post by **Rikan** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:32 pm

Yes, of course... Maybe I've put in the wrong words: So far I haven't seen any possibility to pick up ANY trade without outside help. You have no money, you don't have any decent weapon - and you have to have at least one of them to get started somehow.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:42 pm

Let me say, this is a well known problem, that each one starts with a hammer. In new versions it is planned to have a system, where you can choose which starter packet you will have or an amount of money instead of tools.
But for now, it is as it is. The risk of a game in alpha stage.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:18 pm

Agreed, the current situation is unsatisfying. It´s on the big to-do-list.

A hint: Try to get hold of a longsword or dagger so you can kill pigs more easily. This way, you can start quite well as a tailor or leatherworker.

Rikan · Post by **Rikan** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:11 pm

Estralis Seborian wrote:A hint: Try to get hold of a longsword or dagger so you can kill pigs more easily. This way, you can start quite well as a tailor or leatherworker.

And that's the typical chicken-and-egg problem: Where to get some of these, especially with no money and no way to 'relieve' the soon-to-be-former owner of it? When killing a pig is such an ordeal, something wielding a weapon is committing suicide.

Jeremy Gems Willowbrook · Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:58 pm

You can kill pigs with your bare hands if you have to. The hammer and shovel work too.
Hint...what else do you get when a pig is killed?
Get used to the town layout and what is available. Food is easy to get...so you dont have to beg.
Everyone IG started the same way....so why not talk to people IG and find out how they got started?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:41 pm

Mummies drop swords a daggers, people kill them easily and often, and sometimes don't bother to pick them up. Voila.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:54 pm

Sometimes, in a few occasions you might be able to loan money, or certain items, from a char. It just depends how much people trust you to return the money and stay in the game.

Rikan · Post by **Rikan** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:02 am

Maybe. Once you have some starting money it becomes easier to obtain more, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Next I've discovered that obtaining runes seems to be impossible for me. Another thread in this forum states that one has to ask around ingame, but so far I get answers that may fall into one of the following three categories:

The library is a good start (There you see just the names of runes, but not what is required to get hold of them)
Don't know either, I'm searching as well
Butt off, or I'll show you magic with you on the receiving end

Not very encouraging, to say the least and another point for the good old saying "If you want it done properly, do it by yourself."

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:15 am

Encouraging? Whoever said magic was easy? Magic really is one of the hardest things to be good at, since you have a skill for each rune, and plenty of runes. You expect people to just give you secret information giving you super-natural power with nothing in return? Now thats kind of silly isn't it. Also, going around bugging people constantly is not the way to learn about anything, just a good way to make people mad. In conclusion, ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EASY.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:21 am

hehe when people ask my character to learn magic he will usually say start by reading at the library and obtaining the |spoiler|, and then charges for him to make the ones he can. If he really thinks the person sint ready he will say the same but charge an obscenely large amount for them (he got 100 gold for four of them once

)

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:07 am

Rikan wrote:Not very encouraging, to say the least and another point for the good old saying "If you want it done properly, do it by yourself."

That old saying does not apply in this situation, it applies to "don't let others do your work if only you can do it right", not the "ask for help when you need it" situation. This is a game what encourages interaction. If you could do everything yourself as soon as you started out then there wouldn't be a community here.

Miraci Ruhn · Post by **Miraci Ruhn** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:40 am

Rikan Said:
"The library is a good start (There you see just the names of runes, but not what is required to get hold of them)"

Ah, but you do see whats needed for them, or part of it anyways. Pay close attention towhat is written, there are riddles. The books may even sometimes give you the approximate location of a specific rune. Look closer, and you will see.
EXAMPLE: "LUK for the mummy LUK for the tailor" is written in the books. Pay close attention to this phrase.
I cannot give you a hint, but know this. Figuring out these on your own builds character (no not the pixel guy).

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:07 am

You have to look at it from the characxters point of view. People are asked questions about how to get magic ALL the time. How would you feel if you got asked the same question over and over and over, eventually you will tell people to get lost, it's just a matter of finding the right person to talk to.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:32 pm

Basically ask soemone you have been friends with a whiel and know who can use magic, they will usually help you.

Miraci Ruhn · Post by **Miraci Ruhn** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:27 pm

Jeremy Willowbrook was fairly helpful for me. Even though the place he thought a certain rune was at was the wrong place, he still was kind enough to help me. I was looking for LUK...

Rikan · Post by **Rikan** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:46 am

Miraci Ruhn wrote:EXAMPLE: "LUK for the mummy LUK for the tailor" is written in the books. Pay close attention to this phrase.
I cannot give you a hint, but know this. Figuring out these on your own builds character (no not the pixel guy).

Even more so the phrase "SIJ is found at the shoreline", but there seems to be some vital part missing so that I would be sent on a desperate, yet fruitless search.

Rikan · Post by **Rikan** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:05 am

Just as an addition... I've nothing against the concept that information like this is difficult to obtain. Yet I find it more than problematic that you can't discern the professions from one another (the people look all similar, so you can't tell a mage from, say, a lumberjack) and randomly bugging people means asking for trouble.

A pointer to a mage guild or something like that - just to lead them on the right way and saving the nerves of those people who would have to answer the same question over and over again - would be quite helpful. Wether that guild needs an admission fee or some services to be done before it comes to teaching, that may be another question.

Jeremy Gems Willowbrook · Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:45 am

There is a lot of information on the boards. There is a whole section devoted to guilds. Why not look there. Find a few names of people involved in these guilds...then ask around IG to find them. Of course you will have to talk to them nicely to get them to help.....
If you walk up to total strangers and ask them to give you something how many will? Why should they?
In my personal opinion magic is too easy to learn.

Miraci Ruhn · Post by **Miraci Ruhn** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:42 pm

Rikan wrote:
Even more so the phrase "SIJ is found at the shoreline", but there seems to be some vital part missing so that I would be sent on a desperate, yet fruitless search.

Ah, maybe if you hang around the town when there are many players on you might catch a certain #me that they do that might help you...

Miraci meditates while holding...
Miraci polishes...

Falk vom Wald · Post by **Falk vom Wald** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:00 pm

Miraci Ruhn wrote:
Rikan wrote:
Even more so the phrase "SIJ is found at the shoreline", but there seems to be some vital part missing so that I would be sent on a desperate, yet fruitless search.
Ah, maybe if you hang around the town when there are many players on you might catch a certain #me that they do that might help you...

Miraci meditates while holding...
Miraci polishes...

Why not simply think about those things that can be found, collected or harvested at a beach? I would try to find out if the guardian will accept one of these things. How much things could be found there? Not really that much, uh?

Miraci Ruhn · Post by **Miraci Ruhn** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:42 pm

I dont think he even knows what you must have to summon a guardian.
*clears throught*
Miraci polishes...
Miraci meditates while holding...

Get it?

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:04 pm

Even more so the phrase "SIJ is found at the shoreline", but there seems to be some vital part missing so that I would be sent on a desperate, yet fruitless search.

I'll say this, often times when they say the rune in the clue, it means actually the item needed (i.e. the item needed is found at the shoreline, Coal and the item needed are a smith's best friend, ect ect) hope this doesnt count as a spoiler

Jeremy Gems Willowbrook · Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:29 pm

I think this discussion should continue IG before too much is given away.
Suffice it to say that all the required information is available IG through interaction, reading books or simply experimenting with items and the environment.

nuff said.

Rikan · Post by **Rikan** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:11 am

Miraci Ruhn wrote:I dont think he even knows what you must have to summon a guardian.
*clears throught*
Miraci polishes...
Miraci meditates while holding...

Get it?

I didn't even know that there is something like your so-called 'guardian' involved. To you it may look everything clear and easy. But just imagine if you're totally lacking the context and background knowledge. Without that you can't even discern what kind of information is helpful or misleading - just how would I know that meditating or whatever is part of all that?

Rikan · Post by **Rikan** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:25 am

Jeremy Gems Willowbrook wrote:I think this discussion should continue IG before too much is given away.
Suffice it to say that all the required information is available IG through interaction, reading books or simply experimenting with items and the environment.

nuff said.

As said, the books aren't all that helpful if they tell just a quarter of what is really needed to know. IG interaction requires that you need to meet the right people and even if you see "Someone" hanging around, most probably he isn't of much help either. Experimenting is fruitless as well, because the lack of responses aren't much help to see if you just failed a skill check (and therefore you need just a bit of practise) or the approach is entirely wrong.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:51 am

So, what do you propose?

More messages from the server like "You touch the stone with your *thingy* but nothing happens."?

Or a book that says: "Go to x=293 y=76 z=0 and hit the stone there with *thingy*, offer the guardian *thingy* and you will get the rune *thingy*."?

Rikan · Post by **Rikan** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:46 pm

Estralis Seborian wrote:So, what do you propose?

More messages from the server like "You touch the stone with your *thingy* but nothing happens."?

Something like that or responses like "that seems to be a silly idea" and "trying to cut wood with your sword seems to be a bad idea", maybe more specifically like "cutting wood usually requires an axe" if you're totally wrong with what you're doing. The "You feel like you've forgotten something" if you try to dig without a shovel is a good example.

Maybe a humorous response like "The sheep refuses to be used that way" if you don't have any suitable utilities with you.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:58 pm

Yes I agree. If you use the wrong *you know* when trying to summon the gaurdian, it should say something like "This *thing* doesn't seem to have any effect".