Mages - magic

Dream · Post by **Dream** » Tue May 21, 2002 7:28 pm

Until they set up stronger spells mages should be able to wear armor and shields. You warriors can sometimes kill in one hit because of your skill levels. Until we get better spells to defend ourselves from you guys we should be able to wear prot. I think we should be able to wear all armor types but for the armor to have an endurance level and mages not being able to cast spells when there armor exceeds a certain endurance rate. That way we could defend ourselves long enough to escape combat. Since now there seem to be some crazy halflings running up and killing for no reason. We should be able to defend ourselves from them and others until they get better spells.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Tue May 21, 2002 7:42 pm

Arent you (you= all mages) able to wear all types of armor anymore?
If not, GOOD.
Have you concidered that you are able to kill warrior before he can even reach you?
If you wear two shields, and have even decent parry, it dosent matter does the warrior reach you or not, he is dead anyways.
Or is it just because you are too weak to carry these items?

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Tue May 21, 2002 10:42 pm

weakness
i'm a magic user with strong strength and i have no limitation on what i can wear

Dream · Post by **Dream** » Wed May 22, 2002 1:08 am

No as a matter of fact I said they should set up a system so we couldn't use magic while wearing heavy armor. Try figuring stuff out before replying to a post Caranthir.

Sharag · Post by **Sharag** » Wed May 22, 2002 10:18 am

Quote: from Dream on 7:28 pm on May 21, 2002
Until they set up stronger spells mages should be able to wear armor and shields. You warriors can sometimes kill in one hit because of your skill levels. Until we get better spells to defend ourselves from you guys we should be able to wear prot. I think we should be able to wear all armor types...

Quote: No as a matter of fact I said they should set up a system so we couldn't use magic while wearing heavy armor.

Uhhm, Dream, have you drunken anything, before you answered this thread? The first words of the thread demand, that mages should be able to wear armor and shields. The word "should" states, that this isn't possible for you at the moment, because this is a subjunctive.

That's why Caranthir asked once more, because he didn't know something about this, right?

As a matter of fact you demanded to be able to wear armor and as consequence of this you demanded also your system. You want both. Read your own words.

Try figuring stuff out before replying to a post, Dream.

Dream · Post by **Dream** » Thu May 23, 2002 5:15 am

Now pay attention I don't want to lose you again. This is a referal board for the next upgrades. Everyone is complaining about mages wearing protection right. Now I'll put this in simple terms. Mages wearing heavy armor cast no spells. That simple enough for you?

As far as killing from a distance the spells we have now at low levels don't do much damage. But you fighters don't really have that problem.

Tatonka Bearpaw · Post by **Tatonka Bearpaw** » Thu May 23, 2002 6:07 am

This is very "unrealistic". Have you read about mages who wear heavy armor in their freetime? You think Gandalf had a platemail in his bag? I think mages shouldn't have the ability to wear those strong armors, it makes them kind of "immortal". It would set the PK-rate higher and that's what is bad. You should think of it again, armor is a handycap for mages.

Guardian Angel · Post by **Guardian Angel** » Thu May 23, 2002 8:50 am

We all understand what you were trying to say now Dream, but your first paragraph of your first post does not present your point as the subject of the paragraph, so choose your words carefully and organize your writing better before you blame others for the confusion caused by yourself.

Muck · Post by **Muck** » Thu May 23, 2002 9:20 am

a mage is to slow, u can not run away and cast spells, u don't get warned, i will atack u now, u would die befor u can cast first spells.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Thu May 23, 2002 2:40 pm

Quote: from Dream on 7:28 pm on May 21, 2002
I think we should be able to wear all armor types but for the armor to have an endurance level and mages not being able to cast spells when there armor exceeds a certain endurance rate. That way we could defend ourselves long enough to escape combat.

At one point he does speak of making it so mages could not cast spells when wearing heavy armor, so he does get a bit of his message across.

Dream · Post by **Dream** » Thu May 23, 2002 5:15 pm

Only with a bow Muck for we can't see or hear until its to late even with shields on.

Gurok · Post by **Gurok** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:01 am

It's ok Dream, your first statement actually made sense. Maybe we are the only ones here that can understand it, if so, I agree, if not, we should repeat . Mages should be allowed to wear any armor, including heavy armor for defense purposes. While wearing this armor however they can not cast spells, they will only be able to defend themselves. This way the mages with heavy armor will have a decent chance of escaping a warriors assult but will NOT be able to attack back (if wearing two shields), they will only be able to live to see the next day. I think this is fair, as long as mages can only cast attack spells with no shield equiped and no heavy armor. This will even almost every difference between the two classes out. The warriors will have the greater advantage in close combat and the mages will have the greater advantage up to the point the warrior is able to hack at the mage.

Ashag · Post by **Ashag** » Fri May 24, 2002 1:43 pm

there must be a better way maybe use mithril like in Lord of The Rings because it doesnt way enything and if u could put it in the game it would be perfect but for now u could use leather armors

Narak · Post by **Narak** » Fri May 24, 2002 4:05 pm

Mages and heavy armor is kind of nonsense. I agree with Ashag, Mithril is a light metal and can be worn by mages, but well, leather armor ashould be enough first.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat May 25, 2002 4:35 am

That's exactly his point!!! Nobody thinks mages should be able to wear heavy armor, yet you expect us to protect ourselves??!! If you look at any other fantasy game/world, the mages wear NO armor, yet are they killed by just any stray arrow? NO. Next time you guys want to disprove his statement, first log in and take off all your armor and go about your normal business. Do this for a couple hours and see how good you fare. The thing about mages in the fantasy worlds is they have magical defenses (which makes very good sense), but in this game they DONT. That is why we are forced to wear heavy armor. So dont complain about us being impossible to kill if we wear armor and that offends you. Put yourselves in our position. Until then, your argument is over.

PS: If you think that someone with two shields and a decent parry is impossible to kill, then you obviously haven't been playing the game long, or you have been playing blindly.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sat May 25, 2002 6:00 pm

Who are you to say that our argument is over?
As far as i am concerned, you have no powers to tell me what i can or cannot do.
I have no problem with you having own opinion, but your statement is at least agressive.

Tatonka Bearpaw · Post by **Tatonka Bearpaw** » Sat May 25, 2002 6:51 pm

It really is. I mean, you play a good mage, right? o who should a good mage have problems with? I just can say, look at Gandalf. He was a master of hiding. He was away the whole time and could escape like this from getting attacked. Mages (good mages) study their whole life and try to learn more. If you go on like this, Astral, I don't wonder if your char got attacked. You always let people provoke you (your char), so its no wonder that many people want your head ingame. You say that mages should wear heavy armor, because you tell of your personal advantage. Myself is more aggressive than Astral, wears light armor and isn't killed so often, she also is a druid!!! You are a mage!!! ou got magic for defending!!!! Thats what makes mages that strong!!! A heavy armor is nothing against magic, believe me! You just need to know how to use it intelligent. Otherwise I don't wonder.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sat May 25, 2002 11:00 pm

Oh, so now we are just supposed to wear no armor and go around obeying everyone and being careful not to get into fights? I believe if you read the first form when the Illarion EXE opens, you should see this phrase:

"Conflicts and friendships will arise from these contacts. Both are* intended"

So mages are exempt from this? So we are supposed to follow these rules, but if we break your law and get into a conflict, then we are supposed to die easily?

And your Lord of the Rings example is more fuel against you than for you. Mages in that book had many many enemies. They wore no armor, but had magical defense. Perception if you will, which prevented them from being hit by flying arrows and such. But in Illarion, there is none of that. So unless we want to be the coward mage, we must wear armor. I dont see why you cant understand this.

Plus, your defenitions of defense and attack are mixed up. There is NO magic that provides defense. Magic strictly attacks. Magic may do extreme damage, but if we obey you and wear no armor, then it doesn't do much good, since we will be dead before we get to the alt key.

@Caranthir:
"Or is it just because you are too weak to carry these items?"
And dont tell me that's not aggressive.

Caranthir the great · Sat May 25, 2002 11:03 pm

No, that was mean.

Tatonka Bearpaw · Post by **Tatonka Bearpaw** » Sun May 26, 2002 10:27 am

I don't know what you want! What you said will be done in the future (I hope so). What Dream said is an idea for the future (think so). What I said was also for the future!!! Now mages can wear heavy armor. Now mages can be kind of immortal. This is what is disturbing. If you choose to be a mage, you have to be careful and know that you haven't got good defense. If you choose druid, you know that you haven't got a great chance against magic. If you choose warrior, you know you haven't got a good chance against magic also. There is always a pro and a contra! If you can cast spells, you are strong! You can paralyse someone and kill it easily! If you are a druid, you have to get into a fight, so you have to get near people. Mages have time while the warrior is walking and can paralyse him. But in this, it must be played good, don't think that anyone (after the e-mailaccount) will walk up to you and kill without a warning. Everything will be corrected and will make it fair for everybody. But there is also one point, you always talk about FIGHT!! I think there are worth more reasons for playing Illarion, don't you think so?

Caenolath · Post by **Caenolath** » Sun May 26, 2002 6:15 pm

Tatonka, fighting isn't all of illarion, but it is also an important part, after the e-mail application people might not walk up to you and murder you, but if a mage uses two shields and full armor, there is not much point in having conflicts, it might make you be more polite, but that is just because every armored two shield mage will kill most warriors or druids.
Mages can pretty much be like powerful warriors that also are good with magic, which is strange, magic isn't something you just pick up and learn, magic must be studied for a long time. Mages are the best at fighting, which is a strange thing considering that you might expect warriors to be the best at fighting, but mages can play the warrior role, so warriors are now obsolete. Mages should have to use spells wisely to be able to beat a skilled warrior in combat, a mage shouldn't be able to avoid all damage and just kill the warrior with spells without having to worry about being hurt at all...

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Sun May 26, 2002 6:47 pm

Why wouldn't they have to worry about getting hit? You can still get hit through full armour. Plus, if a mage is in full armour, that means that they have no wand, so all a warrior or a druid has to do is keep moving and they will be impervious to the magic.

A mage cannot play the role of a fighter as well. A fighter puts lots of attribute points on things like agility, constitution, dexterity, and strength (usually maxing a few of them). A mage must max their intellect to get the good spells, plus spend alot on essence as well. This doesn't leave a mage with very many for fighting attributes. They can get maybe a good agility, but that's it. They can't become as good fighters as those who spend lots of attributes on fighting skills.

About mages being the only ones who can kill from distance: Have you ever heard of arrows?

And you say that magic is too easy to get good at? What, fighting is supposed to be easy? I don't think so. Magic is already harder than fighting. With fighting, you can become a master warrior in less than a day. With magic it is a week or more of straight playing, since there are MANY more skills to learn.

Tatonka Bearpaw · Post by **Tatonka Bearpaw** » Sun May 26, 2002 7:21 pm

At the moment the magicsystem is kind of lousy, you should think before posting! You can have the best spell by buying two books, get some Mana and train. Whats wrong with that? I will tell you, mages learn for ages or more to get good spells! They need to study! They don't go and buy a book, cast the spell a few times and know everything! Very good mages are, because of the fact that they learn a lot, old or weak. They got no time for training. maybe mages who can only heal, shor healers, can be warriors, they don't really need to learn as much spells as a mastermage. A mage, who can cast everything up to ra luk maybe, can be a middleclasswarrior, means that he can wear chainmail and such, he is too weak for wearing platemail, he had got no time for training, he needed to learn. Got the point? All proposals are made for the future. All your arguments are based on the actual client! See what I mean? Mages will be worth more powerful in the future, well, I hope so.

@the wand fact: You can wear heavy armor and a wand. A normal armor protects a lot, even without shield.

Caenolath · Post by **Caenolath** » Sun May 26, 2002 7:48 pm

Astral, they can play the warrior role easily because you can just have decent agility, high parry, and two shields, then they pretty much cannot be hit, they can play the warrior role, maybe not AS good, but they can do it AND use spells, so they are better than warriors.
Sure you can be hit through full armor, but what about with two shields, great parry, and decent agility? It is almost impossible to hit them!
They might not do as much damage with weapons, but do they really need to? Not really, they have the ability to avoid damage and also kill you with spells, a warrior can use two shields, but can he use ice bolt or ra kel qwan to do damage while he uses them? No!

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Mon May 27, 2002 3:54 am

Simply having good parry is not playing the warrior role. There is nothing that stops druids and knights from having good magic resistance, so why do you complain that it is all powerful? Maybe if you had a better essence attribute, those paralyzes wouldn't hit you and the hept kels would do little damage.

Caenolath · Post by **Caenolath** » Mon May 27, 2002 4:43 am

So, I see, if the mages can't hurt me much, but I can't hurt them at all it is even? It doesn't work that way. And also, how am I supposed to gain a good magic resistance? Getting mages to cast on me? Or getting into fights with magi?

Likwid Air · Post by **Likwid Air** » Mon May 27, 2002 1:03 pm

A good idea would be too make mages not able to wear armour, but when they become good they can do a quest which allows them to find a certain rune that allows them to cast spells that greatly increase their defence. This would be fair if it took a great deal of hard work to get it but after you do it is good.

Astral · Post by **Astral** » Mon May 27, 2002 11:19 pm

Magical defense, great! I would go for that, unfortunately Illarion doesn't have it right now.

@Doronoth:
If you can't hurt a mage, that's your fault not the game's.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Tue May 28, 2002 4:45 pm

Astral, it seems that you've not fought against thoer, have you?

Caenolath · Post by **Caenolath** » Tue May 28, 2002 6:34 pm

Hmm astral, I see, it is my fault for not having the best skills possible! I guess I had better go powergame a while...