Lyrenzia Foundation: Judicial trial / Gerichtsverfahren #6

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Fri May 16, 2003 11:48 am

Malinne wrote:It is wrong for Lyrenzia to decide what it trusts. It leads to biased decisions. To be fair, Lyrenzia should trust nobody and analyze the testimonies, which is how I thought this system worked in the first place. Lyrenzia can't just take anybody's word for anything. If it does, then it is unfair.

Trust nobody?
Have you forgotten that testimonies come from PEOPLE?
The value of testimony is important just as much as the credibility of the person saying it or how many people are saying it.
We never said that it depends ONLY on how many people or who we trust.
We never said that just because a large number of people THINK someone is guilty, then they are guilty. The value of the testimony is very important too. I already said that just like a normal person, we would consider things like:
-the credibility or reputation of those who testify
-how relevant or reliable is the information (ie. did they actually SEE it)
-quantity of relevant testimonies

So just WHAT are you complaining about? Why do you keep complaining about things that you assumed by yourself and haven't happened?

Malinne wrote: Caranthir, I'm not exactly making unjustified assumptions. It is clear that most who have testified have testified against Fooser (which, by the way, sounds a little like bullying). Anybody can see that most of you are against him in this case, even if the wonderful Lyrenzia hasn't come to a decision yet.

You keep complaining that so many people here are against Fooser. Just who are you complaining to? I don't get what you expect for your complaint.
Your have your opinion, and so did everyone else who wrote here, and it just so happens there were more with an opinion against Fooser.
So what? Did we say that the side with the more people wins? Did we say that the value of the testimony doesn't count?
Did we say quantity means everything and quality means nothing?
I dont get what your complaint to Lyreniza is... you just keep complaining that the other side has more people against Fooser, even though nobody said that numbers alone determine Lyrenzia's decision.

Mailnne wrote: Lyrenzia should not have the same rights as I do because Lyrenzia isn't just a citizen. Lyrenzia shouldn't function as I would function and do whatever it wants.

So you're saying Lyrenzia has less rights than a single person like yourself just because it represents a group of people instead of a single person? How is that logical? When it all comes down to it, you have a problem with Lyreniza because Lyrenzia is a larger group and with well known names, so therefore it is more influential and has more "strength" or "power" to do accomplish something than a single individual, and therefore it is more threatening; it has a bigger sword.

Well just because there's a really strong person living among us, it doesn't mean that person should have less rights than any other person. Lyrenzia makes the same considerations as any single individual makes before it uses it sword.

Malinne · Post by **Malinne** » Sat May 17, 2003 2:20 am

So you're saying Lyrenzia has less rights than a single person like yourself just because it represents a group of people instead of a single person? How is that logical? When it all comes down to it, you have a problem with Lyreniza because Lyrenzia is a larger group and with well known names, so therefore it is more influential and has more "strength" or "power" to do accomplish something than a single individual, and therefore it is more threatening; it has a bigger sword.

Yes, I am saying that a group of people like Lyrenzia shouldn't have the same rights as any individual if their decisions can affect others who want nothing to do with Lyrenzia and have different beliefs. The logic is that any individual who has beliefs that differ from yours shouldn't have to put up with Lyrenzia, just as you expect not to have to put up with them. No, I do not like how much power Lyrenzia has over nobodies such as myself.

Go ahead and keep shooting me down every time I say something. I will not back down.

I don't appreciate Lyrenzia in the least, not even for its good intentions. You've made it sound like Lyrenzia is fighting for power, and well, of course a big group will win over smaller groups and individuals, and that's not a particularly good intention.

I say this case should be dismissed and Fooser should be let off the hook with a warning. Only an imbecile would get himself into trouble with Lyrenzia again.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sat May 17, 2003 3:35 am

Fooser has gotten himself in trouble many times with Lyrenzia...
So Malinne according to you he IS an imbecile.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sat May 17, 2003 4:19 am

How would you know, first off, Elaralith? You wouldn't. Secondly, Lyrenzia hasn't been around long enough for Fooser to get into trouble with them several times. So I think you need to take your pointless words elsewhere.

Malinne · Post by **Malinne** » Sat May 17, 2003 6:00 am

Just shut up Elaralith. I'm sick of hearing your words. Lyrenzia has not been around for that long and there have only been... seven trials? Is Fooser one of the accused and guilty in all of them? Hmm...

You are the imbecile, for different reasons, but an imbecile nonetheless. You talk as if you know everything, and it is fact that you don't know more than the average citizen.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sat May 17, 2003 9:11 am

Dear Malinne,
Why do you keep saying you're being "shot down" just because someone doesn't agree with you and takes the time to show you all the details that support his side of the argument? If I didn't give a damn about what you think, I wouldn't be bothering to write so much.

If you see a person is killing or stealing, is it wrong for you to try and stop him? According to you, I could say "The logic is that any individual who has beliefs that differ from yours shouldn't have to put up with you, Malinne". So why should a murderer or killer put up with you just because YOU think it's wrong to do it?

If that wasn't logical, then it isn't any different for Lyrenzia.
You're the one being unfair here. It all comes down to you saying that the more people that work together, the stronger they are, so the less rights they should have. Do 2 people have less rights than 1? Do 10 people have less rights than 5? They have less rights just because they are "stronger" by working together to achieve anything, whether it's fighting crime, building a house, running a business, etc? Why do you think people work together to do anything then?

Of course, he who holds greater power needs to be more responsible with it though. Well it seems to me that holding open trials where everyone can give input before we go swing our giant sword is more responsible than the average individual who swings his sword after considering only his own opinions and those around him.

Why should Fooser be let off the hook with a warning?
What if he's found to be completely innocent of all charges? Why should he even get a warning here then?
Once again, you're the one who has pre-judged already, not us.
Do you see my point? Things works in the other direction too if he is found innocent, but you're the one who has assumed his verdict.

And let me ask you this. You already saw that so many people here are against Fooser and they believe he comitted crimes. What if Lyrenzia wasn't here? If so many people are against Fooser, what will stop them from trying to attack Fooser on their own even if they had no real proof? But now that Lyrenzia is here, do you think those people would be more or less likely to attack Fooser if Lyrenzia found him to be innocent?

You just keep looking at Lyreniza like a one-edged sword. Lyrenzia is as much a safeguard for the innoncent as it is a threat for the guilty. But you just only look at the latter.

Malinne · Post by **Malinne** » Sat May 17, 2003 11:17 am

It's better to take care of things sooner. This trial has dragged on. My claims that say Fooser are innocent... just take them as testimony for him. It may not be valid because I wasn't at the scene, etc. but it's the best I can give for a friend.

Some of the witnesses/those who have testified against Fooser are friends as well, just as I have and would still consider you. I just have a different point of view and it is automatically disregarded.

I do see your point, I did the whole time. You see mine as well, I know it. Keep running Lyrenzia as you do. I will try to live with it, even if I don't agree with it. I have room for tolerance. I hope there will be less, crime occuring. I will continue to try not to become too involved with Lyrenzia. I've spent my efforts standing up against it, and that is all I can do.

I seriously think Fooser should be let off the hook, this time, and this time only. It's my appeal for him. I still think he is still innocent.

I have more to say... Malinne yawns. But I'm just so sleepy now... I don't think anyone minds...

Malinne laughs to herself and goes to her corner to sleep for the night.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sat May 17, 2003 11:28 am

Malinne wrote: Some of the witnesses/those who have testified against Fooser are friends as well, just as I have and would still consider you. I just have a different point of view and it is automatically disregarded.

Why do you keep saying your point of view is automatically disregarded?
What reaction are you expecting from Lyrenzia to acknowledge that your view has been regarded? I don't see anyone else getting any special responses for their opinions of Fooser, so what special response is it that you're expecting to get for yours?

And whenever you think that you would be better off if Lyrenzia didn't exist, just try to think about all those people who hate Fooser that will then be free to attack him because they won't need to worry about Lyreniza giving them trouble for attacking someone who wasn't found guilty.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:37 am

Malinne, do think before you speak. Rudeness will get you nowhere, child.
I will take your outburst as nothing but that, but do try to do better next time.

Fooser has been in trouble with Lyrenzia quite a few times. Notice I never specified a number.

Your manner, causes you to seem the imbecile...Note that it was you who brought the word up. What I know you don't know, so please do not make unknowledgeable references to my knowledge.

Malinne · Post by **Malinne** » Sun May 18, 2003 6:40 am

Malinne sighs and shakes her head.

Elaralith you are the biggest hypocrite I know. About outbursts, I've had more patience with your rambling than anybody else and just yesterday you completely insulted me when I tried to reason with you. I had no disliking of you until I could see that you are not nearly as poised as you try to make yourself seem. I may be a child but at least I don't cower from things I instigate.

I can hardly believe I ever had an intelligent conversation with you.

Fooser has been in trouble with Lyrenzia quite a few times. Notice I never specified a number.

I'll give you a number. Two. Fooser has been put on trial by Lyrenzia twice. I wouldn't call that "quite a few". I also would not call all seven trials "quite a few". But that's just me.

If I were you Elaralith I would butt out. The people I am already conversing with have enough logic and reason to manage. However, if you want to continue, go ahead and be my guest.

With that said and with all due respect:

Dyluck. Alright. I will see how you handle this case. I thought maybe my opinion would be disregarded, but maybe it's not. You have put up enough arguments towards me which shows you are thinking about what I am saying. I hope I can make a difference, if not now, then maybe in the future.

When Lyrenzia wasn't around, Fooser never got into as much trouble, or at least not everybody heard about it. I'm not so concerned about his well-being because that is his responsibility. If he asks for it, he should get what he deserves. He is possibly just being rebellious knowing that he is being governed. Who knows? Rules are made to be broken. It shouldn't be a surprise that we have a citizen or two who gets themsleves into more trouble.

Lyrenzia is still fairly new to Troll's Bane and we are not all accustomed to it yet... and perhaps, we never will.

~Malinne~

Lyrenzia Foundation · Mon May 19, 2003 12:31 pm

Fortinbris Bloodhearte has been found guilty of the following charges:
1) Hagen von Rabensfeld accuses Fortinbris Bloodhearte of unjustified casting in town

Fortinbris Bloodheart has been found not guilty of the following charges:
2) Hagen von Rabensfeld accuses Fortinbris Bloodhearte of bringing dangerous monsters into the town, thereby making an unjustified engagement of battle against the town

Fooser has been found not guilty of the following charges:
3) Hagen von Rabensfeld accuses Fooser of unjustified casting in town
4) Hagen von Rabensfeld accuses Fooser of bringing dangerous monsters into the town, thereby making an unjustified engagement of battle against the town

Alnerith Dencort has pleaded guilty to the following charges:
5) Hagen von Rabensfeld accuses Alnerith Dencort of unjustified casting in town

Alnerith Dencort has been found not guilty of the following charges:
6) Hagen von Rabensfeld accuses Alnerith Dencort of bringing dangerous monsters into the town, thereby making an unjustified engagement of battle against the town

Grant Herion has been found guilty of the following charges:
7) Hagen von Rabensfeld accuses Grant Herion of unjustified casting in town
9) Hagen von Rabensfeld accuses Grant Herion of an unjustified attack against Sinnoran Stamma

Grant Herion has been found not guilty of the following charges:
8. Hagen von Rabensfeld accuses Grant Herion of bringing dangerous monsters into the town, thereby making an unjustified engagement of battle against the town

The total sentence for Fortinbris Bloodhearte is 3 hours of prison.

Fortinbris Bloodhearte now has 24 hours to choose imprisonment. If he does not choose imprisonment by this time, he will then be labeled as "Exile" for 3 days.

The total sentence for Alnerith Dencort is 2 hours of prison.

Alnerith Dencort now has 24 hours to choose imprisonment. If he does not choose imprisonment by this time, he will then be labeled as "Exile" for 2 days.

The total sentence for Grant Herion is 13 hours of prison.

Grant Herion now has 24 hours to choose imprisonment. If he does not choose imprisonment by this time, he will then be labeled as "Exile" for 13 days.

Full details of sentencing procedures and punishment to voting rights can be found in Lyrenzia Castle.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Mon May 19, 2003 4:10 pm

I'll admit I haven't been the finest of house guests lately, though I choose not to cast fires in town anymore.

I choose Exile, thank you.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Mon May 19, 2003 4:12 pm

Bloodhearte, do not agree to this "court". Hagen provoked you and you know it. Do not go into exile, fight them. Be a leader.

-unsighned

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Mon May 19, 2003 4:21 pm

I find it funny that Fortinbris is the one taking all the heat. I have killed more people then I care to mention. And yet, Bloodhearte is the one that takes the fall, Bloodhearte has not trained me and it disturbs me that I was on trial without knowing it.
Oh ya, I haven't sacrificed for the return of Moshran in ages.......
Grant Herion

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Mon May 19, 2003 4:36 pm

Well, I'm a strong believer in the phrase "Give the dumb baby it's bottle."

Laughs outloud, shakes his head, and walks off into the shadows.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Mon May 19, 2003 11:13 pm

Um.... I never brought monsters into town.... When monsters were here I was far to weak to bring any in... So that case should be dropped. Secondly, I will choose exile for the killing of sinnaron... I do not remember doing it, but I will take it.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Mon May 19, 2003 11:53 pm

Um.... I never brought monsters into town....

Grant Herion has been found not guilty of the following charges:
8. Hagen von Rabensfeld accuses Grant Herion of bringing dangerous monsters into the town, thereby making an unjustified engagement of battle against the town

Is that a bit over your head Grant?

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Tue May 20, 2003 12:15 am

Grant Herion wrote:I find it funny that Fortinbris is the one taking all the heat. I have killed more people then I care to mention. And yet, Bloodhearte is the one that takes the fall

Have you noticed that your sentence is 13 days of prison while Bloodheart only has 3? And you think he is taking the fall instead of you? I think you should rub your eyes and read again

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Tue May 20, 2003 1:55 am

Hehe... I didn't read the whole thing... like I said I never knew I was on trial.. You court people should send a letter to the people who are being trialed so then at least they can defend themselves. Either way, it doesn't matter, just because Lyrenzia is cozy with the prison guards doesn't mean they can make us do anything against our will.

Eliza · Post by **Eliza** » Tue May 20, 2003 4:51 am

walks in all burnt

They burned me I will never be the same again!!!

Gets ready to sell items

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Tue May 20, 2003 6:17 am

Elaralith enters the town shop, on her daily visit to Eliza with her tailored goods...as she approaches she notices horrifying burn scars on Eliza...
"Eliza...what has happenned to you...let me help you."
Elaralith brings forth a bottle of healing salves for burns, and applies it liberally on Eliza.
"I hope this helps...may Elara bring you healing...it hurts me to see you so."
Elaralith decides that Eliza is in no shape to trade today, and walks out of the shop praying for Eliza's return to wholeness.

Eliza · Post by **Eliza** » Tue May 20, 2003 3:05 pm

Thanks Elaralith for the salve and takes a rest to let her magic heal set in