Fighting system

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:05 pm

Right now the fighting system is much better, good work.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:27 pm

fighting system owns now even more! great job

now i pwn Arameh and Revlen! two of my worst enemies in the past to beat.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:38 pm

Retlak wrote:fighting system owns now even more! great job

now i pwn Arameh and Revlen! two of my worst enemies in the past to beat.

Stop that, you dont pwn me!

*goes to hide an cry*

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:02 am

I have 3 people left. (i think)

Its like one of my goals strangely.

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:34 am

Still, the system needs some more tweaking.
Shields are not effective as they should be...

Martin

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:30 am

I have noticed that weapons rot very fast now, is this wanted?

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:33 am

Arameh_ wrote:I have noticed that weapons rot very fast now, is this wanted?

Nothing has changed concerning that in the past month.

Martin

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:46 am

Arameh_ wrote:I have noticed that weapons rot very fast now, is this wanted?

Bad luck maybe, my weapons decay about 700% faster when fighting another playerchar than npc's. May have to do with the fact that PC's are generally alot stronger in skills and attributes.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:12 am

Fighting system is GREAT now

great job ;D

Boremier · Post by **Boremier** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:59 am

I have to agree the fighting system has improved muchly

before I couldnt even fight one mummy, now I can hold 4-5 and Boremiers a noob now (since the char wipe

)

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:09 am

Boremier wrote:I have to agree the fighting system has improved muchly before I couldnt even fight one mummy, now I can hold 4-5 and Boremiers a noob now (since the char wipe )

A Noob can hold 4-5 mummies and that's good?
I don't think so.
Looking at your stats and skills, you shouldn't be able to do that (and I guess after I've changed shields you won't be able to do that anymore).

Martin

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:34 am

I'm not quite a noob any more (although my skills are still severly lacking for a Noble Knight) and I can hold against two mummies if I'm lucky, using two swords and light armor.

One thing I noticed: I fought Players and NPCs with a sword and a rapier together for quite some time but my piercing skill never seemed to increase significantly, while my slashing skill did go up. Might this be a bug in the fightning system or is this a result of my attributes and fighting style?

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:40 am

Adano Eles wrote:One thing I noticed: I fought Players and NPCs with a sword and a rapier together for quite some time but my piercing skill never seemed to increase significantly, while my slashing skill did go up. Might this be a bug in the fightning system or is this a result of my attributes and fighting style?

This is a result of the fighting style. Using two weapons together will only raise the skill of the stronger weapon.

Martin

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:40 am

A medium fighter can sleep in a crowd of mummies as long as they don't attack from behind. Even if wielding a two handed weapon. The same medium fighter can spend an Illarion "hour" to hack on the same skeleton with no effect. At least this was the state yesterday.

I know that it is hard to tweak a fighting system. I tried to create one for a P&P-RPG myself once and failed by making it too complex. Maybe replace some of the complexity by a bit more random - for me, it seems like most fights are predecided even before they start. To me, it seems like most formulae take lots of stats into account, fine thing, but I will try to use an image what I have in mind:

Imagine a race, distance might be a mile. A well equiped, well skilled fighter is comparable to a car, a n00b comparable to a horse and a demon is comparable to a F16 fighter jet. Now, guess who wins. Top speed and acceleration of the horse is not inside the order of magnitude of the others. I am not saying that a n00b should have a fair chance to win against a pro once in a while, but I pressume there is not even a noteable statistical chance for this event. I mean, to me, it is more fun to watch and partizipate in races that are not predicided. Just think about horse races, there are favourites and mavericks, but still, lots of horses.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:48 am

I have noticed one thing that might want to get checked out.

Every once in a while, when I Ctrl+click a 'bad guy'... I'll hit once, then the target/combat quits. Click again, one hit, it goes away. I can't seem to figure out a pattern as to when/why it does this; it seems to be completely random. Usually by the next fight, it's fine.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:56 pm

martin wrote:This is a result of the fighting style. Using two weapons together will only raise the skill of the stronger weapon.

I think in the old system there was a difference between your strong and your weak hand (left/right).
Maybe the learning with two different weapons should depend on your strong hand.

PS: Yesterday I could stand the monsters under the old temple quite good, but my character was not attacked often (party fighting)...

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:06 pm

Miklorius wrote:I think in the old system there was a difference between your strong and your weak hand (left/right).
Maybe the learning with two different weapons should depend on your strong hand.

I seriously doubt that there was and is any difference at all between the left and the right hand - and it is good this way. I see no benefit in this; I mean, you'd have to define somewhere wether your char is right or left handed, add code lines to read this from the database, change calculations depending on which hand you are using and gain... nothing.

One thing that is related to the fighting system (script sided): Whenever a weapon looses durability, it vanishes for a fraction of a second and reappears. I noticed this in the past with furnaces for smithing, they behaved in the same way while smoke ovens didn't. The only difference there was that the smoke ovens were swapped while the furnace was deleted and recreated. Maybe something similar is going on with the weapons; they are not swapped but deleted & recreated, thus the graphical glitch?

Ah, one question: I never witnessed the breakage of armor parts. Only weapons so far. Can anybody confirm that armor breaks? Or looses durability at all?

Boremier · Post by **Boremier** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:08 pm

While fighting down in the ruins last night, my leather armour broke during my fight with the mummies.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:14 pm

Estralis Seborian wrote:I seriously doubt that there was and is any difference at all between the left and the right hand - and it is good this way.

Mmhh... I did in the old fighting system some "pig tests" and I was quite faster in killing them with my right hand than with my left one...

One thing that is related to the fighting system (script sided): Whenever a weapon looses durability, it vanishes for a fraction of a second and reappears. I noticed this in the past with furnaces for smithing, they behaved in the same way while smoke ovens didn't. (...)

Aha... So what is with the two-handed weapons' blinking "blocked"-symbol?
Graphical glitches: Are these position changes with oven and trees a bug?

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:00 pm

Ah, one question: I never witnessed the breakage of armor parts. Only weapons so far. Can anybody confirm that armor breaks? Or looses durability at all?

I lost armor and helmets.

PS: Yesterday I could stand the monsters under the old temple quite good, but my character was not attacked often (party fighting)...

Because monsters have the annoying habit to go after the weakest opponent, which usually happens to be me.

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:20 pm

Estralis Seborian wrote:I seriously doubt that there was and is any difference at all between the left and the right hand - and it is good this way.

There WAS a difference until the big server update 2 weeks ago.
Meanwhile, there is none anymore.
Your right hand was preferred.

Whenever a weapon looses durability, it vanishes for a fraction of a second and reappears. I noticed this in the past with furnaces for smithing, they behaved in the same way while smoke ovens didn't.

This cannot be changed soon.
The problem is: You need to delete and replace the item, technically spoken. So the server sends a command "delete item" and then "create item" to the client. Eventually... well, okay, I can think of a solution, however of course NOT script sided. This requires hard server coding.

Ah, one question: I never witnessed the breakage of armor parts. Only weapons so far. Can anybody confirm that armor breaks? Or looses durability at all?

I can and you can surely check that yourself using the ceiling trowel.

Martin

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:16 pm

I fight with another player and by the time i finish my weapons have degraded alot and my armour abit..

something like... before fight: very good brand new elven mage staff
used lor angur

after fight: very good rotten elven mage staff
Corroded lor angur

The armour decays an ok amount considering its a player fight but that happens with my staffs i have no idea...

Note: these are around 3 minute fights.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:41 pm

That happens when your strength is much higher than your dexterity. the force on your weapon is too big. it breaks faster than by someone with high dexterity.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:47 pm

I haven't read the past ten pages on this but about what martin said on the blinking weapon deal, why is this a problem? you can't stand your weapon to blink before your eyes?

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:02 pm

Your right hand was preferred.

Ah, now I know why all my chars s|_|cked at fighting... The reason why I asked about the armor-breakage is that I found out that weapons break comparable fast; I assume it is because you use a weapon during every attack, but the armor is damaged only once in a while (keyword: hit zones). Maybe some tweaking can help here. I will ceiling-trowel a small test as soon as I have access to a computer on which I can play games without getting hung up on a tree

@martin: I am referring to a difference I noticed between swapAtPos eraseItem + createAtPos - even though everyone told me the commands do exactly the same, the result looks different for me. I can show you what I mean: If you use item 2836 while having item 21 in your belt, there is a "blink". When using item 307 with item 304, there is no such blink last time I checked. I will check if those blinks persist asaIhatacowIcpgwghuoat.

(Or does the fighting system use changeQualityAt ?)

Post by **Nitram** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:04 pm

world:changeItem(<Hitted Item>) is used as far as i remember

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:44 pm

NirAntae wrote:I have noticed one thing that might want to get checked out.

Every once in a while, when I Ctrl+click a 'bad guy'... I'll hit once, then the target/combat quits. Click again, one hit, it goes away. I can't seem to figure out a pattern as to when/why it does this; it seems to be completely random. Usually by the next fight, it's fine.

Yeah, i think its a bug. The key is, it works with the music, when you, by example, are figthing 2 mummys. When you kill the first one, and then you instantly click the second one, there are 100% chances that the attack lag starts. To counter that currently, you need to wait lets say 5 seconds before you ctrl click someone, if you right click just after you stop attacking the other one, it will lag and youl lhave to ty again. Why it does that? i think its because when we do it fast, the new music is in the same time than the current music, so the 2 musics both stops, as well as your targetting. So in fact, you just gotta wait a few seconds before to change targets.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:46 pm

The combat auto end is common with me, it happens when you fight something, then after it is over if you go straight into another fight without performing any other actions whatsoever, then it will not stay on combat mode.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:46 pm

If you change your target in the middle of the fight the attack will also immediately close down.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:03 pm

It can't be because of the music... because I don't have the music set to play.

But yes, I have noticed it seems to be from going too fast from one target to the next. And it isn't the end of the world, but I thought it hsould be mentioned somewhere that someone familiar with the scripts can see it for when more important bugs are taken care of.