The New Fighting system

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:00 am

Athian wrote:i do that all the time

example: rabbit= no prob/panther=holy S@#!

i think it's nice to be surprised every so often. to much information isnt any fun. beside while you examine the monster he'll be ripping your face off. how well can ya see then chief?

i mean for like he said, where the same image is used for multiple monsters. Like for instance how one robber type can be killed by breathing on them, and another can rip you to shreds? If you have, say, 3 perception, it'll say the name of the monster, if you have 18 it'd give you near exact hp, damage type, accuracy, etc. And im pretty sure if they arent attacking your eyes you can loo kat them

Sate · Post by **Sate** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:13 am

I don't like having to think out what's best for each monster. I don't like the idea of needing a store room of equiptment incase I feel like fighting undead one day, and farm animals the other. Things should be simple.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:26 am

falco1029 wrote:i do that all the time
i mean for like he said, where the same image is used for multiple monsters. Like for instance how one robber type can be killed by breathing on them, and another can rip you to shreds? If you have, say, 3 perception, it'll say the name of the monster, if you have 18 it'd give you near exact hp, damage type, accuracy, etc. And im pretty sure if they arent attacking your eyes you can look at them

unless your psychic, perception shouldn't be able to do this. that would require you to be able to read an opponents stats and skills. no amount of percaption would be able to tell you that. mind you we all work off the same health bar numbers constitution basically decides how much less damage you take from a blow then how much hp you have. with that said even if two creatures have the same stats, one might have puny blue slashing skill and the other bright shiny yellow.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:29 am

I dditn mean exact stats, maybe something like

"The whatever's weapon looks like it would do slashing damage"

"The whatever looks very injured"

"The whatever seems to fight with it's whatever weapon with skill"

etc etc

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:07 am

Okay, here are some general statements:

1) I don't think that one or more Orcs received skill boosts or that items were given for them without reason (meaning: Without RP reason, like as a quest reward).
2) If you don't like to think about what weapon would be best against what monster, well, don't do it. You don't have to, you'll just need a little longer with your hammer to kill some of the monsters. That's your business.
3) We tested the FS on the testserver against different monsters using different skills, stats and equipment. But we were 2-3 people. You are about 20 people spending your time for that, this means that you get much more experience and data for that matter.
My idea is to let you fight and collect some experiences and data and tell us what you think. Let me give you an overview what plays a role in combat:

* Position (attacking from behind etc.)
* Skills and stats
* Equipment (ALSO the quality of the equipment!)
* Kind of damage (slashing, thrust, piercing) and kind of armor
* Your health status (the more HP you have the stronger you fight!)
* How much you carry during the fight (carrying a heavy bag makes you a weaker fighter!)

Consider that, fight, and after some days tell us what you think and we'll see what we can do.
We noticed ourself that the system is not well balanced in some cases.

Martin

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:46 pm

This fighting system rocks! I love it how when fighting a swarm of monsters you just back off to a wall and fight everything around you.. so realistic. And all my skills are coming into play alot more.. My char is not such a noob and in 2 fights with Arameh he only managed to hit me once with my super dodge

I managed to attack some monsters from behind and they die a hell of alot faster..like me -_- painfull.

Fighting Arameh with an average staff and an excellent staff makes one hell of a difference. He lasts double the time

Right now i am testing different Armours.. Lor angur seems to be some sort of super armour for me

and Heavy plate makes me attack every 10 seconds

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:54 pm

My char is not such a noob and in 2 fights with Arameh he only managed to hit me once with my super dodge

That is a problem. Heavy armor (that means metal armor) and dodging? A big "No No"

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:19 pm

Lor angur is meant to be light? i thought. Hrm.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:38 pm

No no, Light armor is Light Mercenary, Light Steel, Full leather. Heavy armor is Lor angor, Heavy Plate, Elven steel ect.

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:10 pm

Some things that needs to be balanced/changed in my opinion:

- Scissor/Paper/Rock effect: In my view it is too extreme right now. I don't mind (dis)advantages at all, but it looked to me, that you just need the right weapon and skills don't really matter if you found it.
In addition to that it seems to favour NPC's (because of the tactics skill?)

-Movement: I think that the delays are far too long, what means that you can't escape a fight. NPC's seem to move faster in general now and are a lot tougher and there is also a lot more damage dealt from behind, so I see no reason why you aren't at least able to run away

if you discovered a NPC, which is much beyond you (not very hard now)

What I also don't like is that, if you press the cursor button once you just turn and only move after about a second, which is quite confusing.

-Damage: In my opinion the dealt damage is far too high. Skelletons, Mummies, Ogres and Trolls do the same damage to my char they used to when doing a critical (maybe because of tactics, dont know), but it's the same in PvP. Salathe needed 3 hits with a bastard sword to bring my char down to almost 0.

- Weapons: Executioner's axes and war axes are useless now, because you don't hit (not even mummies), bastard sword is too powerfull in my opinion, because it's one handed, does more damage than two-handed sword, and has same rage.

- Attacks from behind: A wolf killed my char with 3 hits from behind, which is too extreme in my view.

- Skill gain: Since every NPC is a lot more challenging now I think that the skillpoints you get when fighting them should be adjusted as well, especially the max. limit i.e. you don't get anything from mummies after you reached 25%, from ogres after 50%,...

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:08 pm

Full Ack to all your points, especially the movement delay.
Scissor/Paper/Rock effect: In the end you need as a good fighter all skills high because the always need to choose the right weapon? That should be changed... If I am fighter in the second place I have no time to train all skills...

And Shield plus Sword seems also very powerful...

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:33 pm

1) Delay is tooo large.. you can't push NPCs out of the way (push, they walk back in that square)... this is stupid

2) Unarmed combat is too slow, IMHO... if you're fighting a guy with a sword, you need to be QUICK...

Shadows · Post by **Shadows** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:35 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:1) Delay is tooo large.. you can't push NPCs out of the way (push, they walk back in that square)... this is stupid

2) Unarmed combat is too slow, IMHO... if you're fighting a guy with a sword, you need to be QUICK...

Okay, I agree with 1 but two is simple.

Remember your first pig with your first weapon? I think that'll answer it

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:24 pm

I just killed many flies with arrow and bow. I used an elven composite, and it took me 6-7 arrows to shoot a swarm down. with a shortbow it took me around 12-14. Most they weren't able to block or dodge.

With my staff i needed longer. Seems archers rock now

Belgram · Post by **Belgram** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:26 pm

Archers always rocked. 2 arrows and Belgram can take down a pig

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:33 pm

Shandariel el Lysanthrai wrote:I just killed many flies with arrow and bow. I used an elven composite, and it took me 6-7 arrows to shoot a swarm down. with a shortbow it took me around 12-14. Most they weren't able to block or dodge.

With my staff i needed longer. Seems archers rock now

Mmmhh... even when these flies etc. are giant versions of normal flies it is not really realistic, that you take them down faster with a bow than with close combat weapons.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:35 pm

Its not really right you can kill a swarm of flies with a big stick OR a sword OR a bow and arrow OR a throwing star OR a warhammer OR a rapier OR your hands.

Who here has tried killing a single fly, let alone a whole swarm?

Belgram · Post by **Belgram** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:36 pm

Nalzaxx wrote:Its not really right you can kill a swarm of flies with a big stick OR a sword OR a bow and arrow OR a throwing star OR a warhammer OR a rapier OR your hands.

Who here has tried killing a single fly, let alone a whole swarm?

I've killed many single flys...But I used bug spray and towls

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:38 pm

I once chopped a fly in half with a knive right in the its flight. the fly annoyed me since hours, she deserved it!

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:40 pm

Miklorius wrote:Mmmhh... even when these flies etc. are giant versions of normal flies it is not really realistic, that you take them down faster with a bow than with close combat weapons.

My character doesn't, they dodge too much for him. 2-3 hits with a staff works fine.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:45 pm

Wow... archers? for a change... now where did I put my elf?

Kl'urk · Post by **Kl'urk** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:53 pm

Wearing middle good or good metalarmor against a Berengar wearing very bad leatherarmor makes Kl'urk losing like a beginner. he has no chances. For Kl'urk the new fighting system means the end for the road. and a catastrophe for the char.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:09 pm

*Looks enlightened* Now I figured it out ... how this whole system works.

Guys, use yer heads...

Arrows are damaging to everyone right? Wonder why? Maybe its the metal armor whcih leaves chinks? Do you think leather or chainmail works better?

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:12 pm

chinks?

never been shot by an arrow, or magic come to think of it, but I use leather.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:13 pm

I think he means the weak points in the armour where it join together. An example would be around the area of the shoulders/armpits.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:16 pm

Kl'urk wrote:Wearing middle good or good metalarmor against a Berengar wearing very bad leatherarmor makes Kl'urk losing like a beginner. he has no chances. For Kl'urk the new fighting system means the end for the road. and a catastrophe for the char.

So you can't beat the best fighter in the game? /cry
Your char could still beat alot of other fighters and monsters, its simply that you guys do so much damage in 1 blow whoever hits first wins basically.

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:29 pm

Kl'urk wrote:Wearing middle good or good metalarmor against a Berengar wearing very bad leatherarmor makes Kl'urk losing like a beginner. he has no chances. For Kl'urk the new fighting system means the end for the road. and a catastrophe for the char.

I compared your statts and skills to those of Berengar.
Let me put it like that:
Berengar has a VERY high dodge skill, you have a VERY low dodge skill.
Berengar has more agility than you do.
Berengar has higher fighting and parry skills.

I'd say: It's no wonder.

Martin

Kl'urk · Post by **Kl'urk** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:33 pm

Berengar has a VERY high dodge skill, you have a VERY low dodge skill.

Of course i have a very low dodge skill, because i never learned how to powergame it up *sighs*.

But Berengar dodges the same in full metal armor!

That damn dodge shouldn't have such a main influence. its a plus for every powergamed char. normal chars sucks now. Really, it is not fun if you have with a normal trained char no chances because powergamed chars profit more from the new fighting system than the normal trained chars

And Kl'urk has 15 agility. 18 is posisble for him. I see that not as THAT huge difference.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:08 pm

Yeah, dodging makes PGed character...hmmm, 3x stronger, Retlak pwn me before i even hit me, and i got much better skill and armor, the only thing he has mroe than me is dodge, and he pwn me badly, dodge needs to be weaked with heavy armors, a lot.

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:23 pm

Why don't you go where the _______ where and kill the ______ _______?
That would get dodge up