Ponderings (yes more of them) about the Magic Academy

[Cain Freemont]

Well, let's see here... considering I've been gone for the past four months, I really haven't had the time to sit down and powergame... rather, train.

I haven't touched tradeskills because Cain isn't a craftsman.

I haven't touched fighting skills because Cain isn't a warrior.

I did spend a good amount of time reading in the library. Not enough to compare with those who have had time on their hands in the past four months of course, but I did put some time into it.

This new Cain Freemont doesn't have shit for skills because, as I stated before, basically all I did was RP with a few close friends. I don't play a part of something I am dissatisfied with. There's no reason to displease oneself when playing a game, so in most situations, I have not. The main reason I have played Cain so little is because I have been unable to play him in the way he has always been before; as a mage. Sure, I roleplayed spells occasionally during the time when there was no magic system.. but we all know how messed up that looked whenever basically anyone tried to do so.

I never said I disliked his attributes. I think they're just fine. I just don't feel that the players who want to be mages should be forced into this bottle-neck pathway of learning. All I've been wanting all this time is a simple magic system. Nothing fancy, nothing that requires you to go through painstakingly annoying time-zone conversions and the whole having to have a life thing. Thanks, but no thanks. Obviously Illarion has mutated far too much for me to enjoy to the full potential anymore.

Damien.. I'm no n00b, you n00blet. There was once a time where my thoughts could be expressed without getting 5 pages of shit-talk. I guess this place really has changed too much for me.


Oh, and the reason I don't just jump right in now that the magic system is in place is because the way it is run ingame is not something Cain would condone at all. So, that kinda ruins me roleplaying him to learn magic again, doesn't it?

[Galim]

What are your chars attributes, Cain? Maybe he hasn't even the right attributes for magic. so the discussion about him being a mage would be quiet useless,

[Cain Freemont]

It is not my way to discuss character attributes, or even skill levels with people on the forums or in messengers, really. Those who need to know my stats can look for themselves. Truthfully, I don't know if my character has enough stats to get into the magic academy. I'm still up in the air about just throwing the whole thing away and disappearing, only to come back as someone no one will recognize me as.

[Gro'bul]

Make a new character, holy crap theres an idea. I don't see what fun there is in playing 1 char for years, and then still trying to recreate them. It will never be the same, make a new an interesting role, or even a new character for the same role. You don't have to mess with all this *mon char est le suck, le sigh* stuff.

[Pocal]

Grobby, its also the fact that as stated, it will take like 6-12 months to be decent again. As soon as I found that out, I was almost wishing I didn't bother creating a new char that for 6-12 months can't yet be what I made him for.

It also sucks for those who used to have at least some inkling of magic to have to wait as long or longer (those who couldn't get in) to try and get their old characters back to their old level, or at least a resemblence of it.

[Gro'bul]

I had a seriously uber mage/fighter character, and one seriously awesome crafter/druid/archer who was rich out his ass. Why did I not recreate them, well I did one but then found it was no fun but a chore trying to make him good at anything. I created new chars so I could experience other parts of the game than the ones I had previously. New races, new skills, new backgrounds, it all seemed refreshing from the monotony of my past characters. I would say its much like food, we all have old favorites but eating one thing all your life would be aweful boring. The journey is also fun, oh I can make a new item, I want to spend 3000 coins on that great armor, getting a unique item, beating a big monster.

[Nalzaxx]

I know this topic has been done to death several times, but I think it really needs reassesing. Although I am a supporter of the idea of an academy, something HAS to be done about its current state.

Notes are not being marked anymore.
Notes are not being published anyone.
Lessons are few and far between.
We are over a month into its workings and still not had lessons in some topics.
The furthest advanced topic is only on lesson 3 (Well done Damien)
And interest from both the students and the teachers seems to be dwindling.

Though in theory I support the idea, and uphold the principles the academy stands for both IC and OOC, the state it is currently in is not productive to RP and will likely lead to no-one ever getting to cast again, those who are already part are wilting and those who will join have to go through everything again.

So please, if you do not re-address the way magic is re-introduced, then I implore you to reasses the way the academy is being managed.
I do not believe I am alone in my views.

Yours, Sam.

[Markous]

I'm very sorry, my current reallife does not allow me to work or play in Illarion, but I will work again, when my issues are solved. And after all the criticism, especially the Magic Academy gets a low important for me. (Thats a matter of motivation)

I can only speak for myself though, there are 3 more archmages who can make some very nice roleplay.

[Ghorn]

they are seldome ingame. de cyr for example did nothing since the acadamy startet.

[Djironnyma]

i for my part have actually now lessons for novice,.... we had make philospy as free leson and ritual magic is only for adepts....
... so i for my part work more ooc for the magoc system, search bugs and bad balanced spells.....

but btw: to lenniers alchemy lesson were only a hand of novice, to my actuall meditation lesson only wand 2 novices, so we arent the only ones how are not well active......

[Nalzaxx]

I understand that real life gets in the way, but perhaps you have given yourself too much work Markous. Don't get me wrong, I truly appreciate your attempts, but as has been demonstrated, when you are not here the whole thing disintergrates. Perhaps more archmages, or more active ones atleast, that share some of the admin behind the academy would cover your absence.

For example currently Markous marks ALL the lessons notes, perhaps it would be better if the teacher of the lesson marked the notes and published them. And perhaps if there were some other sources for learning. Publishing all the info needed in the library would allow students to learn things outside of attending lessons.

Or perhaps lessening the workload needed. 5-10 lessons in each subject is a huge target to reach, perhaps a maximum of 5 would be sufficient. More teachers would also be an improvement, taking some of the current students and giving crash courses in subjects, then having them teach small groups of other students.

As Ghorn rightly says the other Archmages do very little at all within the academy, so them getting their act together, or them being replaced, is essential.

As I have said before, if there is anything either IC or OOC I can do to smooth the process along I would gladly lend a hand, (Being a scummy college student living at home affords me some time) and I am sure this is true of a number of other players here who wish to see the academy flourish.

Thanks again for your efforts.

[Markous]

I understand that real life gets in the way, but perhaps you have given yourself too much work Markous.

Yes, I agree.

For example currently Markous marks ALL the lessons notes.

Not right, I just publish them with the marks, the specific teachers gave them.

perhaps a maximum of 5 would be sufficient.

I like that idea.

As Ghorn rightly says the other Archmages do very little at all within the academy.

Archmage Seda has really important things to do. I wonder about de Cyr though, who seems not be doing anything.

Maybe, there is the need for new archmages, or replacements. I will discuss about this with the others.

[Galim]

Well. My char wrote 50 days ago a message to Archsorceress de Cyr. It still waits to be read by her .

We knew it would take long to learn magic..but this is REALLY long. I don't think the academy should be closed, but something should be changed. It should go faster for the fitting characters to get magic. We have since month the magic back, and still just the peoples who got the runes without any roleplay through the academy can do magic. My char waits since the wipe for magic. My patience grows thin

[Aristeaus]

I cant make alot of the lessons times with my mage char, i shall just wait till others are able to teach. Im sure it will work out in the end.

[Misjbar]

Since we now have an American archmage, the times could be more easy on us english speaking people living in Europe? 23:00 is a tad too late for us.

And, I also support the replacing some archmages, since the activity seems to have reached sub-zero.

[Aristeaus]

This may sound a very low tone answer.

But if only the main lessons were done in Client. And the others published upon the boards, with the tasks to be pm'ed to the arch mages. Would this not making it more user friendly for themselves and the trainee mages?

[Markous]

And, I also support the replacing some archmages, since the activity seems to have reached sub-zero.

Same here. My time is so low at the moment, that I would give my position to someone else with more active time.

[Misjbar]

Prepare your inbox for dozens of players vying for power.

[Cain Freemont]

Revival, sort of.. but I simply have to bring this up. I don't want any stupid n00b-fest arguing starting, so please just read what I have to say and either agree or disagree, or something. Nevermind, I don't care.


It has been around two months (if I'm not mistaken) since the magic academy basically heisted all the runes. Now, I honestly was planning on advocating the academy. I gave in, decided I'd enroll, and start taking lessons. However, as I said, it has been two months. Not one person has the capacity to cast anything, aside from those teaching it, of course. This, quite literally, is bogus. The people of the magic academy are the only ones who can provide these runes. This does not mean they should hoard the runes as it is becoming apparent that they are. The lessons which I have heard of pose little to no connection to magic, and seem more like something children would learn in kindergarten. The only thing I would like to see, if not a change in how this is being done, is that the lessons be written to gear themselves towards magic and that the runes be more freely given out. I don't mean that the runes should just be handed to everyone, but as it stands, no one has runes. So, more leniency should be looked into considerably. That is all.

Yours,
Eric

[Garett Gwenour]

give garett gwenour full runes and maxed out rune skills and ill make the magic academy roxor.

[Athian]

i also agree that it is taking a long time to get this system going, technically the magic system has not been implemented at all. it's the same as it was before where GM(and or Dev's) were the only people with magic, two months after were given our lovely christmas gift, still nothing.(but we still love you Nitram/Markous/everyone else involved in making all those sweet looking spells )
I don't think however that the lessons are bad or anything like that, the school is enjoyable even for my character, who I play as a Warlock who isn't to fond of mages. but since none of the classes are geared toward his particular vocation of learning he often just goes by notes. As i notice alot of people are doing now since classes are few and far between.

how about we just lower the number of lessons needed to take your oral exam. two months and you've gotten up to lesson three in only half the classes. meaning that it'll be at least another month for the first batch of mages to get out, and another five months possibly for the second.

maybe three or four lessons, in three or four classes would be easier for everyone, with some sort of special test at the end to spice it up a bit.

[Korwin]

The lessons which I have heard of pose little to no connection to magic, and seem more like something children would learn in kindergarten. The only thing I would like to see, if not a change in how this is being done, is that the lessons be written to gear themselves towards magic

This is not a flame, or flamz0rz! The lessons I've gone to, most notably Damien's, are related directly to magic, and provide neccesary background to the magic system.

Now, I know that attending some lesson can be tricky to get to, because of schedule issues, but there seems to be an effort to remedy this. I also acknowledge that I am biased, because I have been able to attend the lessons. However, attending classes does show that your character, and you as a player, are willing to make an investment in learning magic. this is opposed to going to the forum, reading all the lessons as typed by whoever, and then being handed a myriad of spells. The later seems to be bordering on a hand-out (not quite).

Although I don't approve of the length of time, the academy does force players to play the part of an academy student. I don't believe a lump of all lessons available on the board would encourage this in the same way.

If you want to play someone who wouldn't go to an academy? Too bad. You wouldn't decide your character was winged, because it isn't supported by the system. You used to be a mage? Too bad, the game is Beta, and things have changed, this has too.

[Cain Freemont]

Were there more teachers to cover more time slots for lessons, I would support the magic academy. As it stands, a combination of heavy devotion and/or lack of things to do (like having a full time job, or a strong social life) or considerable luck are the only two factors that allow one to make each lesson. The length of time it takes to "make a mage" is far too long, which ties in with those two factors.

If the lessons are truly geared around magic, then fine. But there are still considerable issues with the system in place.


Yes, Cain used to be a mage. Not too bad, its bullshit plain and simple. This game is actually Alpha, according to the little pop-up window before you log into Illarion. Yes, the game has changed, but why should our characters be forced to? Our characters are our characters, no one else's and nothing more or less.

[Djironnyma]

only to give you two things abbout you please think. To my extendet meditation-lessons only wand come 2 novices and with only one of them i can make a date.....

...sine some days it give for all german speaken novices the option to repeat missed lessons, but exactly NO novice take these chance....

... so when you ever scream fore fast become runes, when you ever scream we do to less, why you are do nearly nothing, do you think only waiting bring you runes faster?!


Last but not least i wand to say that Nitram and Manuel build really cool new spells, only for that, that the novices can become some spells earlier, so only pass some basics and in near futur you will have your first spells.

[Drathe]

Straps on his fire fighting kit ready for the wall of flam0rz

A suggestion that could please the majority of players, their character and playing styles. Why not implement basic low level runes and spells by small NPC quests. Higher more complicated spells and runes could be gained by the current teaching system. That way magic is although easily accessible and IN the game, abuse of it is limited due to only lower runes and spells being available without direct player to payer teaching.

I think this would have made for a much smoother, fairer and balanced introduction for magic into the game. All players have accesss to it, all players have access to develop it further through direct Rp if they like how magic works, and player have the chance to self learn a little before being told ‘what to’ and ‘how to’

Maybe a new way forward?

[Athian]

Dji, not to rain on your parade or anything, but you shouldn't be one to talk about fast runes. your character recieved all his runes and was accepted as a teacher without any tests and what not. i understand that the people in doing the academy roles trust you with magic and all, but your now on the other side of the line and i didn't see you taking any tests and what not for it *hands him his two cents back*. your money is no good here.

personally i like the way things are, the academy in my eyes is far to much to ask of six or seven people, who all have actual lives to attend to. most schools you know have at least a few dozen teachers, but in our case we dont have this number, so things move very slowly. thats why i suggested few classes fewer lessons.

If you remember right our tests can only be taken at 5-10 classes. so exactly how are we to passsome basic's and have runes 'soon' if after two months our lessons have gotten to class 2. if we put it into retrospect, being that our academy teachers don't spend there entire lives in Illarion. i doubt it's going to pick up any quicker. Add this fact to the whole every evil creature we encounter seem to be able to cast rediclously powerful magic spells (we'll get you Estralis ),

it is starting to seem more like magic is flaunted by those who have it rather then actually being implimented. Just a short while ago, a dwarf character killed an orc and cast a large amount of ice flame through the town. now explain to me how this is responsible use of implimented magic and i'll have nothing to say on the matter, but it really does seem like PK to me. taking into account that a regular players magic will never be as strong as that of a gm or dev character and who really has the ability to abuse the system more?

Keep the academy, it's fun for most and a great place to rp. even those who haven't gone to many classes are able to meet with a community of peers which makes it worthwhile anyway. but more teachers or fewer classes and lessons before tests would seriously help things out a bit

[Aristeaus]

How with the currant system would an orc mage or other evily inclined character learn runes.

[Djironnyma]

Atian: You simpel only know not all about djironnyma, e.g. you dont know how much work i infestaded in him, you dont now the pages of ruituals and magic theoretic i wrote, so please, dont talk about thinks you dosent know, i did not become runes simpel because i know nitram or such thing......

More teachers make no use so long (as i say) the novices doesnt get more activ.

Drathe: You can be sure that the novices dont get dangerous spell for beginning....

Aristeus: We are neutral.....

[Isilwen]

Yes, leave Dji alone *huggles him*

Let's think of it this way...most of the teachers of the academy are either a GM or a dev, and both are working very hard to get this new client out to all of us, as well as teaching classes for the Academy. And erm, real life fits in there somehow too ^^ and possibly sleep. So let's give them a break, okay? I'm sure once the new client is out and they've had a time to breathe, the academy lessons will pick up again.

[Athian]

i'm happy for you Dji, that you helped out alot and had the oppurtunity to help out. and i think we've all invested quite a bit in our characters thank you. and no i didn't say you got magic and such because you know Nitram. if i wanted to say that then i would have done so in a very plain manner. i said it was because you could be trusted with magic and teaching magical background. that however doesn't change the fact that your character is now one of those with magic and no longer has to wait for it. for the rest of us it's frustrating for the classes to be so slow.

Students aren't looking for repeat lessons Dji, we're looking for the new lessons so that we can move ahead in the studies. repeat classes and classes not marked as offical lessons (like dicussion classes and what not) dont' attract many people because they seems like filler classes that just take time from actual lessons. that and PO's on also have lives to attend as well, and can only be as active as our own time allows.