Illarion.org

Hmph...safety.

The entrances are far too narrow, and there have been rare instances where the invasions actually reached into the heart of the town. Practical safety is to bring down that wall, and focus funds on some sort of town guard.

Caranthir please point out which of my questions are inacurate. Also what assumptions do you speak of? My points were backed up by your own rules and regulations. Please take the time you would use to think up an insult and use it to check what you are talking about.

Algoran.

Lyrenzia councilors and the such,

I agree with what Aerinkoth said, you should of taken the money you spent on the wall for a police force. But you didn't, instead you spent it in on a cage that does nothing. Plenty of monsters have breached the wall many of times and a police force would have been much more useful.
And yes, it is true, since the town wall was made there has been many more town attacks....
3 ogre/troll attacks, 1 zombee attack (but someone might have summoned them, 1 spider invasion, and countless fights because of the wall. And in every attack the monsters either dug under or fought through the town wall. And a side-note, I believe the wall has only be around for 2 months, maybe 3, it used to be 1 attack a month average and even then it didn't happen always...

Bumbol Woodstock

After starring closely at the wall and struggling to read the posts Arkadia chuckles lightly and begins to tear through the paper, finally coming across an ol parchment. She pins the paper to the side of the new one and remarks

Rather amusing, Bumbol now is going through the insults I went through when I mentioned this months ago.
http://www.illarion.org/community/forum ... ght=#70638

A 'police force' would take great time to create, we don't want power-heads on the force otherwise we can kiss our beloved freedom goodbye. A selection process would need to be formed. Also, the police force would not be able to watch over Illarion all day everyday, but even if they did they wouldn't be able to be everywhere at once to catch criminals, we just don't have an adequate population to support such a force.
And shouldn't the money the criminal pays to evade prison time be shared with the victim too, or is it already shared with them?

I believe all the money or almost all of it is given to the victom.

No-one has given any money to shorten their prisonsentence.

Caranthir, you are missing the point. Just because no one has paid yet, doesn't mean it is right for you to leave an option like that there. So you are letting yourself be bribed, if you want to not look like you want to be bribed, take that option off.

Bumbol Woodstock

Sess'sth reads through the posts and writes at the bottom:

The revolution beginses.....

A large force who will act as judge, jury, and enforcer, all in one?
If there are some who are not satisfifed with those who do these things now, how will they react when it will be done by hired goons or the common man?
That is of course, assuming that the manpower needed for it can even be gathered and spread through time and place to achieve the desired effect.
Let's not kid ourselves and say people will be ready to accomplish that, nevertheless accept it.


So you would call this option "bribing", and you have problem with it.
But you assume the cost of 10 silver which the "briber" pays, is less of a punishment to him than the 1 hour he would have served.
If this is true, then why has nobody thus far ever taken the option of "bribing"?
Because they don't want to? Because they can't afford it?
If so, then the punishment value of 10 silver compared to 1 hour is obvious.
If you disagree, feel free to prove it to me the day somebody selects to pay their way out of their entire sentence.

Try not to let too many predefined ideas and concepts about monetary values from other places over define your thinking....

As somebody who remains hated but still uses the town facilities occasionally, I can safely say that no police force can take away freedom, namely if one is a nomad or outcast. The problem with Lyrenzia is that it is far too organized, full of politicians and officials. Now think, who can corrupt a town easier? A small band of some police force, or some politician hiding somewhere, convincing an astronomical amount of the populace that an action which is normally considered awful is right?

-Signed
Vahkos Nosral

I often wonder what the high-ups in Lyrenzia would do if someone else was doing what they were doing... Probably try to stop them huh...

Bumbol Woodstock

Lurking in the shadows, Konstantin becomes silent and starts hiding again. He watches, he listens, he reads, he knows - something is coming. Changes are at hand. What will his place be in the new world? It is better to remain in darkness for now, away from sight. Once a shadow - always a shadow.

Looks like the powers might be spinning around soon. Joining the strongest is the only way for me in here. However, until I know who the strongest are, I will stay neutral and independent...

Possibly I'm missed them, but what are the goals on the 'anti-Lyrenzia' faction? Apart from removing the walls, toppling Lyrenzia, and creating a police force do they have any other goals?

I cannot speak for the anti-Lyrenzia faction but I just want Trollsbane to return to the carefree days of old. To rid the town of this faceless creature that sits in darkness sucking the life from the town and it's inhabitants. To return the power that was snatched, in darkness and secret, from the people back to the people. This many tentacled beast called Lyrenzia cages the town and leaches from its citizens.

Lyrenzia argues that they are no different than us yet they have powers unheard of before. They build a castle and boast of their strength yet say they are no threat. Whenever Someone asks a question it is answered by the words of bullies "You are stupid, ignorant people to question Lyrenzia. We are in power and have the strength to keep power". They Say they do not set prices SMACC does that. Where do we find SMACC? In the castle.

Was Trollsbane of old a place free of fear? No. Is It now? No. Was it better before Lyrenzia? In my opinion yes. If I was to build my own castle, gather my own army and declare that I was now the upholder of the law, would Lyrenzia bow before me? If I built my own prison and declared I would judge who is to be thrown into it, would Lyrenzia smile as I closed the stocks around it's neck? Of course not. Yet Lyrenzia expects it of us.

I say if the situation is no different now than before, as Lyrenzia claims, then disband Lyrenzia, it will make no difference.

Algoran.

Time will pass, leaders will rise and fall, revolutions will come and go, but there will always be paying customers.

Uhm... I think that Lyrenzia... became... the power of the weak... to use against the strong... It was a good idea, it was just taken advantage of... it is in the nature of all humans to have... anarchy... Organizations that help the people... can not last long...

Algoran, you are one person, Lyrenzia is many guilds.
How do we leech the trollsbane? We leech it out of..?
"Sucking the life from the town and its inhabitants"? What is that supposed to mean? That might sound really convincing to you, but it actually means nothing. We do not do this, if you observe closely, we are not threatening to take life from anyone, nor jail them. However we've heard rumours about plans to murder Lyrenzia councilors, that sounds more like "Sucking the life from the town and its inhabitants".

Some of you seem to forget in the rage for 'freedom' (or bloodshed, pick one) that WE are inhabitants of trolls-bane too.

And yes, SMACC was not founded by Lyrenzia couple days ago and it still isn't. Lyrenzia upholds SMACC and why shouldn't it? Goal of SMACC is to guarantee fair prices to merchants such as your brother, SMACC is the basis of the prices mostly used today. You would know this if you would bother to search some older letters on the wall.

But Caranthir, not all of those guilds will participate. I believe it was Dyluck who said I attacked the "Defenseless" silverstar merchants. Are you really defenseless? Or was that propoganda to make someone look bad, just like Galim saying we are killing children?

We are merchants, not bunch of fighters. Hopefully that'll answer your question.

i said you HAVE TO kill childrens if you want to kill lyrenzia because lyrenzia are not only a few people, lyrenzia is a huge part of the towncitizens. so if you want to kill all lyrenziapeople (like many others have wrote it here) you have to kill many people. get it?.

Galim

I don't think Lyrenzia has many children as it is a organization, it does nothing for the town but build trapping walls and judge people.
Who ever said anyone was going to hunt down children? We want Lyrenzia gone, if they really care for the town they'll just leave peacefully.

Bumbol Woodstock

Yes Caranthir, but you could use them vast ammounts of silver ingots to 'stone' him to death.

People complain the walls are too narrow and Lyrenzia (or persons of their organisation) blame the townspeople for not defending them.
The townspeople blame Lyrenzia for not creating a police force and the townspeople blame Lyrenzia of taking freedom.

Fooser burns an empty shop and asks why the owners are defenseless?
People say we should revolt and get rid of Lyrenzia, they do however forget to say just why we should.
Lyrenzia says it is a diplomacy and ignores requests from the public, yet listens to their council.

Now what the buggery is happening?

What are the reasons for and against Lyrenzia, and where is the proof?

Yours in confusion, Hermie.

I explained the whole thing to everyone already. It is in human nature to have anarchy. If a person can fight someone, they will.

Then why don't you fight anyone Paul?

Bumbol Woodstock

It is strange how my eyes seem to avert from your writings. What a mystery .. but perhaps, Paul, you should crawl out from under the rock you are living under and open your eyes. There are more humans than just you, just look at all the humans in the Foundation you are against!

The 'Revolutioners' and 'Lyrenzia' (for & against) both point the finger at each other. Through my eyes I see the Foundation as a form of punishment for criminals, nor have I seen or heard otherwise.

Perhaps it could be my eyes that are closed, but I doubt Lyrenzia will dissapear just because you wave a bloody axe at it.

A fact is that some people fear change, whilst others embrace it. Whether it is a change of good or bad, only time will tell.

Hermie

I ams now neutral. This is nots proving nothings right now.

If you wants freedom so badly, why nots build a new town with no ruleses?

What is the reason? Everyone seems to have a different reason, and mine seems to be different so here goes:

When it first started, I believe it was our dear friend Dyluck again who said-

Dyluck wrote:I would like to see where you read that the rules and regulations that we write must be obeyed by anyone other than the guilds of the Lyrenzia Foundation.

Lyrenzia can jurasdict the guilds within it, the people within those guilds, and the "registered" citizens who arent part of any of the guilds but choose to be a part of it. Since then they have failed to recognize that the non-alligned "independent" citizens, are indeed....independent. I would propose that they let the independent and unregistered citizens live like they did before Lyrenzia even exsisted, and the Guilds, guildmembers and Registered citizens who approve of being a part of it live in the way AFTER Lyrenzia was formed, but I doubt that would ever happen. If I understand that quote correctly, non-aligned citizens do not have to participate in the Judicial system, or whatever electoral system that they have. The "unwritten" laws remain unwritten for those who choose not to be involved. For major offenses they can still take action, for example murder(which is taken care of by Violations email or GM's I believe).

I've been reading a lot of the older wall posts about this, and the official posting about Lyrenzia itself. And it seems they use to stress that non-members would not be effected, and would not be subject to these "unwritten" laws, and different regulations they make. Why has that changed?

You are right, even if you did not sign your message.

Lyrenzia should make more detailed laws subjecting crime and, to be able to fulfill them, taxes.

Lyrenzia should uphold the laws for the entire town, not only for people that signed in. This is ridicuolus... Anyone who didn´t sign in is free to do what he want.

I think the law of Lyrenzia should count for everyone that is inside the borders of our town. It´s a good law. Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.

A wise man once said: We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.


So let us gather behind Lyrenzia and make it stronger, at least in the town of Troll´s Bane.


Cuderon na` Od´Waihr

Knight of the Grey Rose

.....I dont think I explained that very well. If they would just draw the line between involved and independent citizens, there would be no problem here whatsoever. That line should be: You dont murder without reason. And non-aligned members do not participate in Judicial systems or election systems. Other than that unwritten laws remain unwritten, unless it is an extreme case, like casting 400 times or something ridiculous like that.

Hermie wrote:There are more humans than just you, just look at all the humans in the Foundation you are against!

I think you need to crawl out from under a rock and learn how to read, hermie. I made it quite clear that I am not involved in this in anyway whatsoever, but was offering an explanation for the revolution. Should I be part of it?