Illarion.org

Lance Thunnigan wrote:

JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT HAVE A TEACHER/YOUR TEACHER LEFT DOES NOT MEAN IT'S A BAD SYSTEM.

It does.
It means that the supposedly 'working' system, really isn't working so much after all.
As Keikan already said anyway, it'll be getting overhauled either way.

So if someone who can't rp can't get taught runes that's because it's a failing system?

May I remind you that there are STILL PLACES FOR STUDENTS? If you STILL can't get a teacher, don't you think that's saying something?

Just to repeat my earlier words, how many students are actually being taught two runes a week? That can be the only measure of whether the current system is working.

Secondly, this is not the purpose of this thread! I think that we get the message that you are against this by now!

Kaila Galathil wrote:
Dij, IMO if there is a requirement to still have to see a mage teacher first, that will address the concerns of non-RPer mages, and also too many mages. If there are some teacher ig would teach ancient too fast, then maybe that would need to be addressed at the academy?

I like some of your other ideas however, as far as rewarding mage teachers.

I does not say the current system is perfect, yes it must be make better because some thing doesn't work well. I have write down some ideas, witch make the train of mages maybe better. But i am against to change the whole system. If something doens't work well, try to upgrade it, not to destroy it.

Everything what could make a player shouldn't be done by a NPC. If a NPC teach rune, why there should any player go to a Playerteacher to learn them, why?

With these NPC's you don't bring only to much, to mighty runes ig, you also destroy many, many rp.

Well there seems to be a lot of level one runes. I do not think you should get more than 3-4 runes without a teacher.

as i wrote in the other thread, we are few. we should not over burden the existing players.

replace for now every missing player by an NPC. when we got enough or too much mages, we can switch back, to slow down access again.

In my opinion we do not need more mages..

Skaalib Drurr wrote:Just to repeat my earlier words, how many students are actually being taught two runes a week?

I am.

I do.

No offense but I do, is not particularly helpful. But since you say you do, all the runes can be taught in 3 and a half months. How long have you both been apprentices of your respective teachers? And there is some delay for rp reasons, sure, but that much delay? So I think you will find that no, not one student has been taught two runes a week consistently.

Skaalib Drurr wrote:No offense but I do, is not particularly helpful. But since you say you do, all the runes can be taught in 3 and a half months. How long have you both been apprentices of your respective teachers? And there is some delay for rp reasons, sure, but that much delay? So I think you will find that no, not one student has been taught two runes a week consistently.

I STARTED getting taught rather late, and it was still one rune at a time then. Since then it has been fine, except when I've been on holiday and the like. Apart from the very start when he would only do rp lessons, Silas has been a consistent teacher.

Djironnyma wrote:But i am against to change the whole system. If something doens't work well, try to upgrade it, not to destroy it.

Everything what could make a player shouldn't be done by a NPC. If a NPC teach rune, why there should any player go to a Playerteacher to learn them, why?

With these NPC's you don't bring only to much, to mighty runes ig, you also destroy many, many rp.

Agree!

Mages should not be played by not roleplaying people, who just go to the NCP get the runes and become mighty mages... No Sence in my opinion.
And whats about the pupils, which just learned the few runes, it took perhaps a long time, they practiced their RP in that time... it`s kind of not fair for all existing pupils...

Who ever said destroy it? Teachers could still teach.

@Calenleia

That is a ridiculous arguement really, to say it is not fair on current students, is just selfish really. This is about making it better, nothing to do with the past.

And only the basic runes will be taught, there will be no mighty mages running around with those runes.

Skaalib Drurr wrote:@Calenleia

That is a ridiculous arguement really, to say it is not fair on current students, is just selfish really. This is about making it better, nothing to do with the past.

And only the basic runes will be taught, there will be no mighty mages running around with those runes.

It's no fairer to say "Let's make a new system because it's not fair on the new students"

It is, because the other appeases people by keeping the system broken.

While the new solution would fix the system. Or at least make it 'more functioning'.

Completely wrong. To stop change because it is 'unfair' on old students is a ridiculous point of view. Not only is it not unfair, as old students if they still lack runes can use these methods to get them, it really is selfish to sit on a perch of accomplishment, and not to help others up too.

That is like saying, let's not make education better because that is unfair on those who have already been educated to a poor standard.

AlexRose. The sense and use of your posts in that topic is zero.

If you want to propose anything usefull and useable to Keikan in order to make his NPC, feel free to do it.
If you want to post useless rantings, write the ranting on a paper ( RL ) and lay down in next to your monitor. There is no need that you spam the board with this.

If you want some informations why the current magic system is bad, feel free to contact me with a private message.

The same offer and advice goes to everyone else as well.

Keikan showed allready what kinds of posts are needed

Nitram

No! Please don't put in such trash! We all had to work hard and wait long to get teached and now, just because a bunch of jealously guys starts to whine you give them what they want! This will give us nothing but ultra noobs, who play Illa for three days and don't even know how to rp, who are running around with runes! You can't mean this sirious! You keep on decreasing the power of the magic because you say the current apprentices / mages disuse it and trash and you want to give completly nerds, whose rp was "even worse" then "ours" runes?! This will end in a further decreasing of the magical power and then one more and one more and so on, but people will keep whining, maybe because the quests are too hard for them or whatever and we will end with 90% of the players running arround with mages! Please, use your brains and DON'T DO THIS!

We all had to work hard and wait long to get teached and now, just because a bunch of jealously guys starts to whine you give them what they want!

Like I have been saying for a long time:
1.) The fact that you have been waiting for so long is a mistake.
2.) The fact that Alex had to wait for 18 months to get runes was a huge mistake.

However, it does not mean that:
1.) Everyone should wait long
2.) Everyone should wait 18 months

This is because:
1.) The huuuuge wait is not intended effect
2.) ..but rather, is a byproduct of the retarted and inefficient system we have now.

So:
1.) Since it's not intended, there is no reason to put anyone else through this waiting ordeal.
2.) Don't be so jealous and spiteful. I find it sad that you want to ruin the game for others, simply because you have been struck by something that is completely unintended to begin with.

Besides:
1.) We shouldn't take an elitistic approach on new players. Not every new player is a gibbering idiot.
2.) If you calmed down a bit, you'd realise that the runes are not being given to random passers by in the streetcorners. There are some rather easy-to-implement safeguards that can be put in place to make gaining the runes a bit more timeconsuming without taking it to the ridiculous extremes we have now.
3.) Don't be so jealous (2).

@Taeryon

Erm, I've not seen one person on Illa that could not RP well.
From what I've seen, all the players that were wanting to join, have either joined and are RPing now, or still have technical issues and can't play.

So I really don't see any non-RP mages coming about anytime soon.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:No!

Yes.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Please don't put in such trash!

We do if you don't come up with a much better proposal.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:We all had to work hard and wait long to get teached and now,

I should remember you, that Illarion is a game. A game should be fun and no hard work. If its hard work for you, you do something wrong.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:just because a bunch of jealously guys starts to whine

You call me jealously guy?

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:you give them what they want!

After more then one year of a not working teaching system its time to change something.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:This will give us nothing but ultra noobs, who play Illa for three days and don't even know how to rp,

Those won't be able to find and solve the quests. And the newbies who don't know and don't want to roleplay are filtered out pretty fast.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:who are running around with runes!

See aboth.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:You can't mean this sirious!

We are serious

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:You keep on decreasing the power of the magic

Its called balancing. Deal with it.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:because you say the current apprentices / mages disuse it and trash

No. Because its not balanced.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:and you want to give completly nerds,

No we want the weak part of the magic become more common.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:whose rp was "even worse" then "ours" runes?!

That part has no sense at all.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:This will end in a further decreasing of the magical power

Says who? Only because you guess something that does not has to be true. The easy part will be easier to access. How much damage does a fireball illusion? How fast can you kill a pig with a fireball illusion? Its rather slow i think.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:and then one more and one more and so on,

If you think so...

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:but people will keep whining,

You should not consider everyone to do what you would do.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:maybe because the quests are too hard for them or whatever and we will end with 90% of the players running arround with mages!

Thats plain bullshit. Only 15% of all characters have to attributes to become mages. So do not talk crap.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Please, use your brains and DON'T DO THIS!

We use our brains and do it.

Nitram

I would tend to agree that it seems jealous and spiteful of people to reject this proposal because the previous system didn't work for them for a long time, until just recently, and now they are fine.

And the quests for runes. I have a few more ones that could be entered for any of the runes in my previous post....

Gather 20 sibanac leaves,a pipe and a comb
Get me 10 oil lamps
Gather 50 trout
Get me all the tools needed for carpentry/smithing/tailoring
Get me a new mage's hat

I would just like to say this is an excellent proposal.

Since my character is not a mage yet I do not fully understand the Rune system yet. However, the way Sam RPed the mindset of a mage was someone that uses their intellect and mind to acquire more knowledge and wisdom. They are always seeking answers always gaining more information not just about magic but all things. (you may or may not agree with that point of view that is fine I am just expressing my ideas)

I really like the ideas of collecting things and bringing them to the NPC but I don't like that you have to pay an NPC copper or silver to acquire Runes. I am with Kaila about learning ancient, perhaps teachers can assess the RPing capability of aspiring mages, but are their other ways? As for the quests the NPCs would require. First and foremost he should only respond to ancient (someone might have already posted that sorry if I missed that)


My first thought was this: The library research skill right now is useless, why not create a book in the library or use one already IG and have the NPC tell aspiring mages that they must give him a verb report report on level one Runes to receive their initial set of Runes (which I guess would be two, perhaps MES PEN as it is most teachers first set). The verbal report would have to say things like RA is the rune of fire that has the picture of a (dont know dont have a teacher) on it. And just like the ham delivery quest that is out right now you cannot receive the ruins just by saying the name but actually reading the book and understanding it.
I think this would be a fun and informative quest instead of a "scavenger hunt" quest.

Also mages are suppose to have a good understanding of the gods of Gobaith as well perhaps their could be a quest where the mage has to make a pilgrimage to the altar of the five and seek the knowledge of the altar (which when shift clicked gives a message of the five older gods and what they represent) Personally I like think intellectual quests that deal with information more than goods is more suitable for a mage. Other ideas I have would be for mages to rely on one another and perhaps complete the Irundar quest to receive their first level 2 runes.

Other ideas that could be easy to implement would be a "Servant" quest where the mage would have to serve say two people and these two people would be the Ham delivery guy, the entrails orc guy, or the hobbit cake guy. And once this was done a mage would feel like he helped someone.

Hope this was helpful.

If you're really gonna do this thang then do it properly

Ancient speaking teacher
Level 1 runes only
Quest is something which requires intelligence, not just walking around and picking up random items, and appropriate. Something like: A buncha new maps is made (I could do this) which are based on the rune that is obtained by completing it. e.g. lhor could just use irundar, solving the puzzles to get blessed water, then taking that back to the npc. But instead.. an npc at the end of each map who gives you an item, which you bring back to the other npc. Alternatively, the one at the end just teaches you the rune and the other npc is there just to tell you where the places are.

So it'd be kinda like (Conversations below would be in ancient):

Player: Hello
NPC: Greetings
Player: What do you do?
NPC: I know information about many unknown areas of these lands.
Player: Unknown areas.
NPC: Indeed, if you get me x I will share them with you.

So you bring back x.

Player: I have x.
NPC: Thanks very much. Now I can tell you where they are.
Player: Tell me where they are.
NPC: Do you wish to know about (Then a list of choices like: The ice cave, the fire cave, the illusion cave) etc. etc.
Player: I want to know about the fire cave.
NPC: The fire cave is In the east. You must pass by Silverbrand to get to it.
Player: What is in the fire cave?
NPC: I do not know what is in there, only where it is.

Then at the end of the cave you speak to the NPC and he's like.

Player: Hello
NPC: Greetings. Who are you?
Player: I am Gherkin the gollywog.
NPC: Nice to meet you.
Player: Who are you?
NPC: I am (insert name), the fire mage.
Player: Fire.
NPC: You would like me to teach you the rune of fire?
Player: Teach me the rune of fire.
NPC [anc]: RA BHONA
Player: Your master give you the power of the rune RA. You can feel that you are now able to control the power of this rune.
NPC: There, you know possess the rune of fire.

Hooray, a rune.

Then you have to get out again

These caves would be a good place to include other things too, there would be the one way which is the way to get the rune, and another way where you could put like.. fire elementals in the fire cave etc. But the straightforward route would just be puzzles with no need to fight anything.

I like the idea if you can GET MAGIC RESISTANCE FROM NCPS. I had made ohh...100 topics about it int he past that were ignored by all of the staff. Now here is just another reason. If anyone could get the ability to use magic, then anyone should be able to defend against it.

Lrmy wrote:I like the idea if you can GET MAGIC RESISTANCE FROM NCPS. I had made ohh...100 topics about it int he past that were ignored by all of the staff. Now here is just another reason. If anyone could get the ability to use magic, then anyone should be able to defend against it.

If anybody can get magic resistance, magic should get back it's old power.

Whats the point about having npc magic teachers anyway? Bad idea if you ask me.

Executor wrote:Whats the point about having npc magic teachers anyway? Bad idea if you ask me.

*Awaits Nitram to fall upon him with binary and fury*

-
On a related note:
I lyke Alex's idea

And I think magic resistance should be 'easier' to learn then it currently is.

Using the (few) good proposals in this topic this is how the NPC would look like currently.

Ancient will not be required to talk to the NPC, in fact he will teach it.
If I make the NPC depending on Ancient, I feel like repeating the exact same mistake that was done with the Magic System at the beginning.

The NPC will, together with the help of the PC, 'craft' runes.
For this he will need some ingredients, which the PC will have to fetch him.
Each attempt to craft the rune will have a fixed fail-chance of 5%*.
Failing the attempt will destroy all* ingredients.
During the crafting attempt the PC has to answer a simple question:

NPC starts with the complicated process of merging the single components of the rune to a unity. In the middle of the process he looks at you and commands you: "Now call the Rune of Fire by its true name!"

Failing to answer this question will result in a ruined attempt.

The NPC will give out runes in no special order, but will always assign tasks that create a useful spell at the end.
The PC can learn:
MES PEN, ORL KA and either RA KEL or HEPT KEL

I'm still considering if DUN will be added to this.

The ingredients of a rune are always combined of this:
1* raw stone + 1* gem + X* associated items

MES - Diamond* + [propose something]
PEN - Diamond* + [your proposal here]
ORL - Topas* + [add your ideas here]
KAH - Smaragd* + [some food item]
RA - Ruby* + 100* ash*
HEPT - Bluestone* + 25* bottle of water*
KEL - Amethyst* + [what you think fits here]

* = these values or items are up for discussion

Note, that this is how the NPC would work if I start scripting it right now.
I'm still more then willing to listen to proposals.

Executor wrote:Whats the point about having npc magic teachers anyway? Bad idea if you ask me.

I'm not asking you.