Illarion.org

Nitram wrote:Narmirs concept has another problem. Who chooses the first mages? All others will cry, that they didn't get the runes. And who is able to say, that noone of the chosen chars, gives the runes to others, like he want?

Indeed, this will happen, people will give runes to those whom they like. This is why I think what Devrah said a while back about people who have been rping mages since the wipe, is a good idea. Give them to Jeremy, Marie, Athian. They are all good RPers who the community recognizes as being knowledgeable. Even in game, they are thought of as knowing the magic. Start with them. You know they are responsible enough to pass the runes on to those who deserve it. The VMA could up the standards... and there can be laid down general rules of what kind of characters should be allowed to have runes. As long as the general guidelines are followed... the problems should lesson.
There is always the chance that the wrong person gets their hands on the runes. As Narmir said, we just have to be on top of things like that. If players are vigilant in who they pass runes to, it should never happen.
And yes, Nitram, people are going to cry and complain that they weren't the first to get runes. Your answer should be "Too bloody bad". It's coming to you, hold tight in your seats, seek the people who have runes. If you are worthy, you will get them. This will not be a long, drawn out process anymore, and just because you are not the first to have the runes, does not mean you will not get them in a short period of time.

This doesn't promote knowlagable mages, they are just as dumb to it as someone you've plucked off the street. My idea was, Teachers publish information and classes into textbook like posts on the forum. Then students can schedule times to take these tests. Then runes can be taught in the style we have now, this would include training and whatnot that utilizes the ig mechanics rather than the text engine for classes. This way, each teacher could have his or her own "class" and teach everything to them. In this way, each teacher can formulate their schedule and take on pupils who are available at the same time instead of each one holding a single class available only to a group of people. I'm not sure what they have for adept training, but simply saying information isn't much different than reading it. Except for the intro to ancient, or other skills, I think thats the only efficient way to make it so students can be educated. As for proving rp, I think you can proove yourself in the adept classes for that.

Avareniah wrote: Give them to Jeremy, Marie, Athian. They are all good RPers who the community recognizes as being knowledgeable. Even in game, they are thought of as knowing the magic.

All good names, but that puts magic entirely in the hands of the VMA. We'd need a bit of diversity

And we need teachers who speaks both languages...

Gro'bul wrote:This doesn't promote knowlagable mages, they are just as dumb to it as someone you've plucked off the street.

It does promote knowledgeable mages. When passing runes, one has to be taught the runes. I am not saying that the runes just get handed over. It is an apprenticeship. It's a teach and learn environment.

And waiting until adept classes to prove your rp?? So you went through whatever many classes to reach adept and someone deems your rp not good enough, after you logged those hours?? Sure, we'll get everyone who is bothered by that to PM you at the end of the day, so YOU can explain why they were allowed to 'waste' all that in game time on a character and a profession they aren't allowed to have.

Narmir wrote:

Avareniah wrote: Give them to Jeremy, Marie, Athian. They are all good RPers who the community recognizes as being knowledgeable. Even in game, they are thought of as knowing the magic.

All good names, but that puts magic entirely in the hands of the VMA. We'd need a bit of diversity

Lol, yes, it does. Those were examples. Damien, Dji. (That also covers the having German players with runes).
The archmages that exist would teach these people first, is all I am saying. Not those people specifically or Only, but those types of people. I mean... I think Allura should have runes, but there are others who deserve it more, depsite all the time and effort I put into the academy classes. And that is all I am trying to say. *Know* who deserves them for their patience, continual rp, character concept, good rp, and magic knowledge. Start there.

Athian is not part og the VMA nor will he ever be. and hes not a mage people he's a warlock a halfer. so he wouldn't ever teach anyone who wanted to be a mage. apprentices for him would be far different then the standard mage class characters. so ya know

p.s.

plenty of teachers should become avaiable for all those who want diversity in magery. not just good guy teachers or bad guy teachers, but warlocks, summoners, battlemages, shamen and the lot

Avareniah wrote:Sure, we'll get everyone who is bothered by that to PM you at the end of the day, so YOU can explain why they were allowed to 'waste' all that in game time on a character and a profession they aren't allowed to have.

Give them an interview then, and "test their aura" before they are accepted.

We are aware of who to give, and who not to give runes for the first "generation" of teachers.

I think anyone who was a mage before the wipe and has at least 2 witnesses that would say they were should get the runes, and could teach them to others via their own methods (obviously on the technical level you;d need a rune transfer spell)

I have been absent for a time and I was also not here before the wipe, but I have tried to learn about previous magic systems and current ideals from reading the information people have posted in the forums and have talked about ig. Perhaps I am only restating what poeple already know or want, but I hope this adds some ideas:

What Would be Unsuccesful:
1. GM's alone handing out rune/magical abilities - This, as has been said, would end up giving attention getting characters more ability, which would be unrealistic. To me, unless the chracter is evil, rebellious, or egotistic, magical power would not be shown except in worst case scenarios. There are some who would mix magic with physical strength, but, again, these are different characters and would have "lower" magical abilities typically.
2. Counting on a select few characters to teach magic - I don't think the mistake in this is that GM's get to choose worthy players to begin a magical legacy, I think the unfairness is in that not everyone has access to a certain three players no matter how hard we try. For instance, I may see Jeremy often, but as for many other mage characters that Luin would associate with, I see very little of. Not that i expect to be one of the first apprentices,lol, but I would like the chance to show interest and allow Luin to observe. I think other players would want this chance too.
3. Super-mages must be controlled - While I do think there would be some success in obtaining this, it seems from what people are saying of pre-wipe that in the end we will always have the same problem. All it takes is one card to fall to have the rest fall too and how fair would it be to punish a line of mages for what one unresponsible mage does by having to take away runes or whatnot?

What May Work:
1. Allow a number of players to become, in a sense, the guardians - I think this would be easy to establish into the game. Using the listings of mages above, the GM's could give a set area of abilities to each individual selected. Instead of being only three or so mages that could teach, this would allow there to be 7-8 mages who could effectivly and realistically teach a certain type of magic (elemental, healing, etc. ) My input here is limited due to the hard time I have had finding exactly what abilities were given before the previous wipe. If we want supermages in the game straight off, then we could have a few who had many magical abilities and others who had a few. This way, the magic is more accesible to those who want to learn, but there are still players (and RP) involved in passing the knowledget o the next generation.
The 3 "supermages" can start with the expected high powers in many areas and the other minor mages can have limited power, but high knowledge in specific areas.
2. Encourage the formation of smaller "followings" instead of academies - we should be encouraging the schorlarly study of magic. Only a select few will ever have the talent to learn all, which can be handled by GM's. I think these "followings" may happen naturally and not all of them must be given a title or an official grouping. But if certain mages become for their wisdom/or vileness within certain areas of magic, people will be drawn to them. This will also stop evil characters from being left in the cold and on their own. There will be bad and good mages from the beginning, along with those who really have no affiliations.

My conclusion:Keeping things to only a select few will severly limit the amount of good RPers you may get. As has been said, I don't think players should have to be going around actively seeking mages to be the apprentices of - though not frowned upon, this should be seen as a shortcut and not "correct." Mages should have an inherent ability to notice their own kind - make players hang aroudn them and follow them about. Make players work hard to be noticed or appreciated.
Small groupings of followers will develop around certain mages, with the three or so select supermages probably gathering the largest interest. Minor mages though, will allow for a partially fair system that everyone may have a chance to be involved with. The magic blockade will still be eld up by older players. Apprentices will still be chosen so magic will not lose its pretige. Unless one is picked by a supermage for apprenticship, they will most likely end up seeking the guidance of many mages to learn and tone their craft.

I will stop here soon. I think I have been too wordy, but I hope I have been of some help. I have had, at least, some experience in the past of establishing a magic system and understand the high amounts of frustration you get with poeple for not "doing things the way you planned it." I think the best way to keep control is to put it in the hands of the players but keep it just difficult enough that most poeple will not get far. I would much rather see numerous poeple with weak magic than many with uncontrolled magic. At least then, Illarion will have magic in it while still giving everyone that chance.

Keep in perspective that no system will be perfect, but we can at least be fair about it and allow people to have fun, which is why Illarion is here. Characters who stick around will slowly form bonds with other magic users and learn more. Characters who are not completely dedicated will never grow strong enough to have an effect in a large sense.

Again, my apologies for the long post and any German-speaker willing may quote me if they find it worth it.

While scanning through the last eight sides, I felt, that the discussion focus only on magic.

But we have to look at the whole picture.

We will have four magical classes which one char can only choose one.
Magic, Priest, Druid, Bard
At the moment, only magic is ready, but the other will come. Systems are allready worked out and needed to be scripted and tested.

If we can manage it, that these four systems are balanced (which will take time and might first happen, if they are introduced into game) and each system has its advantage and disadvantage, people will choose between them and by time, we will get perhaps a quarter of the playergroup having one of them.

The next point to consider is, that you need the attributes to be really good in one of themagic classes. But having the attributes to be really good, you aren't able to be a really good fighter. Therefore the magic upper fighter isn't possible through the attributes.

Looking at these points, the chance that all will have magic in a really useable form is more than rare. What does it matter, if a fighter can do some minor magic? People will laugh over his "success" in magic.

At the moment, the only problem is, that the other classes aren't ready and therefore mages get so much attraction.
We are in development and time will balance things.
So I vote for a simple teacher-student system, giving runes to a small player base in different cities and they will teach the runes to others.

Narmir wrote:

Avareniah wrote: Give them to Jeremy, Marie, Athian. They are all good RPers who the community recognizes as being knowledgeable. Even in game, they are thought of as knowing the magic.

All good names, but that puts magic entirely in the hands of the VMA. We'd need a bit of diversity

I see no problem here :p

Wenn wir uns mal ein bißchen im realen Leben und besonders in der Literatur (Fantasy-Bücher) umsehen ist es doch meist so, dass ein Meister sich seinen Schüler aussucht nach einer geeigneten Bewerbung oder Vorstellung.
Hört ein Meister auf so gibt er seine Kenntnisse an den besten seiner Studenten weiter. Es gibt gute und schlechte Lehrer - und gute und schlechte Studenten.
Und (Aragon hat es bereits geschrieben) sowohl das Druiden-/Priester und Bardensystem sollen auch noch zum Laufen kommen.
Das einzige Problem was ich hierbei sehe ist vielleicht eine gewisse Willkür, aber die gibt es im RL auch.
Wichtig ist nur dass wenn ein Lehrer aufhört das Wissen unbedingt weitergibt an einen Nachfolger - sonst sirbt ein System evtl. irgendwann mangels Kenntnisse aus.

((Sollte das schon jemand vorgeschlagen haben - dann sorry -- habe nicht alles korrekt übersetzen können))

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If we particularly look around times a little in the material life and the literature (Fantasy books) are it nevertheless usually so that a master selects itself his apprentice/student after a suitable application or conception.
A master hears on so passes on it his knowledge at the best his students. There are good and bad teachers - and good and bad students.

And (Aragon has it already written) both Druids /Priest and Bardsystem to be supposed also to running come. T
he only problem which I here see is perhaps a certain arbitrariness, but it gives in the RL also.
Importantly is only that if a teacher stops the knowledge absolutely passes on tobest of his students - otherwise a system died possibly sometime for lack of knowledge out.

((that should not have suggested someone - then sorry -- everything correctly translate could))

Luincale wrote:2. Counting on a select few characters to teach magic - I don't think the mistake in this is that GM's get to choose worthy players to begin a magical legacy, I think the unfairness is in that not everyone has access to a certain three players no matter how hard we try. For instance, I may see Jeremy often, but as for many other mage characters that Luin would associate with, I see very little of. Not that i expect to be one of the first apprentices,lol, but I would like the chance to show interest and allow Luin to observe. I think other players would want this chance too.

I disagree. Exactly this is, what we want to do. Some players (We choose them, and it is not only the VMA) will be granted some magic, and then they are to teach the magic to others. I see no unfairness in this, for players who show some great RP are better suited then others; There is no possibility to treat everyone exactly the same when it comes to spread this ability. There will be enough magicians to teach your char.

It's a good teacher/learner system in the hand of trusted and good RP players, who will spread magic widely.

But i hope , you choose german speakers too

Damien for example

For example , maybe 3 English speakers 3 German speakers?
This should be work...

OK, I was having a huge re-think; and here is my suggestion; a sort of quest, which gives them 1 month to work out (1 RL week); then to meet this GM character [spirit] which would only need come once per week for a few minutes / timezone; who would give them the rune if they answered it correctly.

The GM char would come up with a riddle, example: "By Tanora it comes, by Bragon it leaves; only to return, when Bragon goes hiding". Now this answer would be found in books, AND/OR would need a huge think about the answer. This GM character could also give a different tip to each of the aspiring mages, so the only way to reach the answer was by RPing a meeting. Then at the end of the RL week, the GM char appears, and asks seperatly their answer. Now if your char is RPED to be very egoist, he wouldn't tell other chars, whilst if he/she wants to help others, most poeple will know the answer that time.

Those who answer correctly would get the rune.

The questions would also be regarding the gods or other cultural things, which would require them to ask around to certian people. (Example: If you wish to ask a question regarding tanora, you go ask a Paladin of tanora).

The only drawback is that its basically a quest, and the GM would have to contact people in secret to give them the answer. Example: There is a hard question RE: Bragon; there is a group of Bragon worshippers (already there, not connected to the quest); the GM in OOC gives that person the answer to the question. Any mages would have to think, note that THAT person would know the answer, and ask him.

Example in Practice:
5 people want to become mages and get the rune X. The GM character appears, "The Rune X is the symbol of spirit, the symbol of Eldan. For it to be given to you, you must bring the answer of this question: According to the legend of [Insert name here]; where will Eldan appear if he were to return to Gobaith?". Meanwhile, the GM contacts for example, PO Markous and tells him, "the answer to that question is [for example] Vanima". Now each mage is on his own, the person thinks (alone or with others), "hmm, the White Flame are using the monastry of eldan, their leader is Brother Markous; he'd know the answer to that question". Person finds Brother Markous in town and asks him to learn about Eldan. Brother Markous wastes 15 minutes of that person's life by explaining the whole legend of [Bla bla]; and gives him the answer within the speech. Person now knows the answer, what he does with it; is his own sake. 1 week later; GM char appears, "Come Person X, what be your answer?" Person X gives correct answer, "The answer is correct, the rune X of Eldan is yours" *adds that rune*. The nice part about the information being passed on is that this info could be given from AGES before, and people will learn it normally, like a legend. For example, if Brother Markous (sorry to pick on your char) knows something, then it is obvous that he will tell the members of the White Flame, so people could ask them as well.

By this method, a person has to know WHO to ask and HOW to ask that person, therebye opening RP opportunities.
-
If you need it made easier (cos it looks complex) tell me.

PS: The answer to the example riddle is: Rain.

i think everyone needs to relax and give eveyrthing a chance. right now the people most concerned with the magic system are those who have made seconardy characters that will be super mages. (the academy list definatly would show that regard).
right now lets just get this magic system into the game, it really doesnt' matter how it's done. and i agree with Aragon on the point that no one seems to care about the other systems in development.

before the magic system was reintroduced very few people rped mage type characters. the most i can think of is eight players off the top of my head though there may be a few more. the moment the magic system came out however suddenly around 80 mage players suddenly appeared. the only reason i see to this is because everyone seemed to think magic was some super big fix all weapon that could pwn all fighters and what not.
while some of these secondary mages may have been suddenly returning characters from long journeys ( ) it's fair to say alot of them have very little to no substance as characters. there are a very many of them that were made to literally be walking guns. to this end i completely understand why the magic system is guarded over as it is. so an open system is just not going to work.

part that bugs me the most is that this same thing will happen over and over. i know of maybe five players rping priest type characters, when the priest system is out i epext there to be at least ten times that number. ame for the druid system and the bard system. we'll end up with a bunch of characters with little rp and lots of power. so whatever way the systems are introduced are obvisously going to be made to avoid these things happening. i think everyone can understand that point.

Just to throw a quick idea in.

What I actually dislike is the way magic is used in Illarion.. Before you flame me, I don't want to insult anyone, since I once played a mage and did the same I dislike today.

I'd like to bring Gandalf as an example: He never really uses active magic on his long travel but his best use is his wisdom and connections.
I think people who play mages should mind that magic is something very special and not use it in every street fight like it was before.
That, of course, makes it more difficult to play a mage, but will also force one to keep out of trouble which I think should be normal for a mage, since they are no prowlers.

sure that works for traditonal mages but a can see an orc shamen definatly using his magic when it comes fight time, or a battle mage tossing some spells before he goes into hand to hand.
i see you note the point that magicans along with any other vocation must be played with a certain level of restraint. even players of basic fighters use some restraint. they don't walk into town and kill everyone they see (usually) and i wouldn't expect that from any player regardless what tool they would use to accomplish the matter.

With the new magic system there wont be battle mages left. you wont be able to be successfull as a battlemage or warlock with splitted attributes.

actually Shand i've had some rather long discussions with certain people on that aspect and it will be possible, it will be limited of course. people who do such stat types should be happy if they can even manage half the spells and of course it would mean that your magic stats would still have to be better then your fighting stats.

so player:

Essence: 8
Will:8
Int:10

or below wouldn't effectively be able to cast but it would be possible to do so with stats between 10-13 and above in those same catagories. of course as stated don't expect to be some all powerful wizard. making characters as such would mean when it came to playing one you'd have to take what you got and do your best with it. i don't think it would be fair to only rewardplayers who play to one end or the other of the attributes list. that makes for unrealistic characters. half with maxed warrior stats, half with maxed magic stats and no one wanting to fall inbetween because the systems only support those types of characters and make any form of diveristy basically worthless.

was wäre, wenn wir die Magie aufteilen in eine Art Zaubertricks für Magiebegabte und wirkliche Magie für Magier.
Ich mochte die Idee von früher, daß es verschiedene Magier auf der Insel gibt (Spieler oder GMs), die ihren Lehrling ausbilden.
So schlecht fand ich die Akademie auch nciht. Der Nachteil war nur, daß man ältere Chars nun wie Neulinge behandeln musste, ungeachtet deren historisches Leben oder Vorwissen.
Da fällt mir noch ein: Magier die eine Hohe Stufe haben, sollten dennoch nicht jeden Spruch beherschen, zumindest nicht soweit, daß sie ihn weitergeben können. Dann hätte man ein System aus verstreut lebenden Magiern, die alle nur bestimmte Runen lehren könnten. Und da man nicht zuviele Schüler aufnähme, bestünde nicht die Gefahr der Massenmagie, so wie sie die Akademie hervorbringt.

As I understand it runes are taught through use of a teaching rune.
A simple way of restricting magic therefore is to restrict the teaching rune. Make it unteachable by players. The only way to get it would be by a GM granting it. "Teacher" mages could request a GM to grant the rune to apprentices they thought were good enough. Then the GM could assess the character and their RP, etc., before granting the rune. (Good old GM invisibility )
Not everyone is cut out to be a mage. Not all mages are cut out to teach.
As to maxed stat characters. Personally dont like them. Jer is definitely a balanced character as he was designed as a thief originally. Post wipe he was tweaked a little, with RP reasons for doing so, but still is not heavily biased towards mental stats.
One point. Remember you have to RP to the stats you choose...not just your characters personality. Low physical stats should be played as weak, sickly, uncoordinated, clumsy, etc. So mages with maxed mental and low physical should take note. A character with 3 Con will not run a marathon or spend all day training or working. They will be frail and sickly. Play to your stats.

Es wäre übrigens von Vorteil, da sich hier anscheinend die Mehrheit für das meister-Schüler-System ausspricht, wenn es zu diesen einen übergreifenden Apparat der Bewachung gäbe. Eine Art Rat der Weisen, die zumindest Versuchen Strafen zu verhängen, oder das ganze etwas unter Kontrolle zu halten.

Übrigens fänd ich es nett, wenn ein Char nur eine bestimmte Anzahl von maximalwerten in seinen Skill erreichen kann. Und er sollte dann nur in Themenverwandten Skills gut werden können. So verhindern wir immerhin die Superchars wie früher. Was soll ich mit einem Magier, der Schneidern, Kämpfen und weiß Gott alles kann.

Das sollte ingame ausgespielt und geregelt werden, nicht ooc. und zwei erzmagier bleiben ja

Die Idee gefällt mir auch. Ein Lehrer/Schüler System, das beliebig gespielt werden kann. Aber wenn der Lehrer denkt sein Schüler ist soweit, dann gehen sie zur Prüfung zu den Erzmagiern. Besteht der Schüler, bekommt er 2-3 Runen, die der meister aussucht und kann üben - bis zum nächsten Mal.

Auf die Art hätten auch nciht alle die gleichen Runen und nicht alle gleich alle Runen.

Später kann man ja noch einzelnen Spielern, die überzeugende Magier abegegeben haben, die Lehrrune geben. Das würde ich auch nicht an die große Glocke hängne, macht das Spiel viel interessanter, wenn keiner sicher ist wer lehren kann.

Hmm, read some of the posts, got some mixed ideas, of course didnt read through the whole thread. I have several ideas, and wil ltouch upon other magic usage as well.

Magery

Idea 1: GM Questing
This is probably the most flexible and easy way. Basically, you'd have some magic spirit GMs. These magic spirits could appear at any random time, or through specialized ritual (obviously would need to have OOC and IC brought together to work well). For random times, the spirit will appear in eithe rlarge groups of people or very small ones (1-3). In large groups, he would either ask some sort of riddle, or ask for the characters' opinion on some highly philosphical question, that any interested folks could answer. Neither would have a real 'correct' answer, rather, he'd ask for views and reasoning, and would take, say, the top 10-25% (depending on interested group size) most intelligent of the interested people's answers (small groups would just have the option for everyone to be tested, though the test which is explained later would be harder). They would then be brought on some sort of quest that was predesigned, and would all go through by themselves once. It would involve several tests and riddles that would measure responsibility, morality, and other good qualities of a trusted mage. In fact, the characters might not even know they were being tested, for example the spirit might just leave after deciding who will be tested, and then test them when they are off by themselves.

As for the rituals, it would involve non costly resources, but would vary in materials, vocals, and movements (and the like) about every week. You'd be able to find out through "wandering" npcs that would have preset wandering locations, and would have a few keywords to activate before speaking of the ritual. I imagine this would be much easier to do than static quests. If needbe, they could just be placed outside of the major towns. Another way to find out the rituals is through books that might come up rarely in a library shelf. Once someone knowqs the ritual, or thinks they do, theyd contact one of the magic GMs about it, and theyd set up a time for the roleplay. After being summoned, the GM would give a short riddle or task for the person to do, and would then teach them the rune.

Advantages: Only people deserving of magic would get it. Probably the most clever solution. Also the most dynamic.
Disadvantages: Relies on Gm schedules. Would probably be a bit hard and exclusive.


Idea 2: Pre wipe handout
While maybe not as easy or provable, many would argue that this is the most fair way to do it. You would basically give out about 1/4 to 1/2 of the runes to each person who was a mage before wipe, the amount depending on the power of the mage. Power and, of course, existance of the abilities would be proven by having 2 or 3 witnesses, which could be pm'd by gms after the player says that thos epeople saw them with magic. The power would be also asked by the gm, and to a certain extent affected by what the player said. After getting the runes, magic is further taught via a transfer spell (all mages would have to be given it, or at leats most of them), thus allowing those mages to teach how they wish to teach. To limit someone just throwing runes to people, there'd be restrictions. Power of this rune (the spell is combining the transfer rune with another, duh) affects the chance of transfer. If you have no skill, but have the rune, it'd be about a 1% chance of trasnfer. Each time you cast the spell it will drain all of the mana and food from you. As for being given a rune when you dont want it, perhaps something when you cast the spell on the person, like the client saying "You feel a magical essence trying to enter your body and mind, do you wish to allow it?", and then you type !yes or !no. If you choose yes, you have a chance out of 20, directly based on willpower, of absorbing the rune, and if you do, it'll say something like "You feel a new magical ability course through you", and if failed it'll say "The feeling subsides suddenly". If you choose no, youll get something like, "You force the essence from your body". This way it wouldn't be easily abused.

Advantages: At first, at least, and for a while, only those desrving magic would have it. Players could have creative quests. Allows for Magic schools.
Disadvantages: Could be abused if someone really wanted to.



Idea 3: GM chosen
This follows the prewipe rules concerning how it's transferred after the initial peopel are chosen. Basically, the gms each choose maybe 3 or 4 people they think have a character that can roleplay a mage. of course, this leads to a great deal of bias and probably isn't the best course of action.

Advantages: Only those deserving magic would have it, at first.
Disavantages: Bias possible. Could be abused.


Idea 4: Pre-wipe System
Using the prewipe system, you set up a staff, offering, and rune combination, spreading the runes about the isle.

Advantages: Probably the most trusted way. Easy enough to implement
Disadvantages: Anyone who's at least slightly persistent can have magic. Isles are much bigger and it'd be annoying finding good places for runes, and even more annoying going to each one.

Idea 5: Static NPC Quests
Im sure you all know these, it's where an npc has a retrieval or riddle sort of test to give you a rune. I think its explained in the old manual or something.

Advantages: Simple way for people to learn magic.
Disadvantages: Once someone's done each quest, everyone else will soon know. Hard to choose where to place the npc's. Scripting time




I myself would go for Idea 1 here (even though 2 would give Ules magic right away )




Now, for other magic, Im sure a lot of this is decided, but you lot will listen anyway


Bardic Magic:
Im thinking that each bardic "magic note" will have a corresponding instrument. The harp might be love (charming or weakening), the flute energy, the lute enhancement, etc. Having an instrument gives you temporary access to the note. You can play to learn the note once a day, and your willpower and essence decide how quickly you'll memorize the note. Once you learn the note, you can use it with other instruments. You always need some sort of instrument to play a "magic song". For the songs, unlike mage magic, they'll be completely dynamic. If you combine a weakening note with one that strengthens the song, it'll be a strong weakening spell (almost an oxymoron). If you combine, say, slowing and weakening, it'll do both. Bardic songs an consist of a single note, though it need sto be played twice in that case. Skill in bardic magic is affected the most by perception (hearing, so you can tune the notes correctly), then by willpower, then essence, then intelligence. Since bardic magic can really, at its worst, make you unable to attack, and cannot damage much by itself, the stats wont matter as much, as for, say, mage magic.



Druid Magic: The recipe books in the library seem to be a good start here. based on your library research skill, you can research an herb an amoutn of times dependant on intelligence, library reading, and willpower until you memorize it. This will be graetly taxing on your stat cap for the day, and evenm at max stats you probably couldnt learn more than 2-3 herbs a week. As for mixing and such, you can leave that like before, it all seemed fine.


Priest Magic: I've Seen shrines around the island, and other religious looking things, and this seems to be perfect for where to quire the psalms or whatever for priest magic. You'd need some offering, like holy water, and then you'd recieve a blank psalm book. In that book, you can print a psalm, by using ink, a quill (or whatever), and the knowledge of a psalm. Knowledge of a psalm is gathered in many places, either through the library, certain npcs, landmarks, monsters (undead), and some possibly through a knowledge transfer skill from other priests and clerics. There'd then be a writing skill that would give you a chance to write the psalm in the book. It'd be about a 25% chance to start, and when failed wastes the ink and your focus for the day. After succesfully writing a psalm, you then use your research skill and attempt to learn the psalm. You can do this up to three times a day, until you learn the rune, and the book dissapears into your magic menu (alt)





Just so you know, those ideas (non mage magic ones) are from the top of my head and not refined as best i could. if i knew they had a chanc eo fhappening, id of course have thought more.